Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

Army chief appears to be at odds with Nawaz Sharif government again. The trial of Musharaf is not going to help the civilian-military relations. Look at these news items

Sharif risks straining ties with military, warns US intelligence report - DAWN.COM

" Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif may strain his relations with the new army chief if he continues to expand his policy-making powers, warns a US intelligence report.The report, presented before the US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence on Wednesday, notes that Mr Sharif is seeking to “acquire a more central policy-making role” for civilians in areas that the Army has traditionally dominated.
“His push for an increased role in foreign policy and national security will probably test his relationship with the new Chief of Army Staff, particularly if the Army believes that the civilian government’s position impinges on Army interests” the report warns."

Sharif, COAS discuss security situation - DAWN.COM

“Meanwhile, reports coming from the army strongly indicate that the TTP threats against the military had not receded despite the government’s fresh call for talks.
Three rockets were fired on the Bannu Cantonment on Sunday morning and two soldiers were injured in an improvised explosive device (IED) attack in Ladha (South Waziristan) on Monday.
Troops foiled attacks on the Punjab Regimental Centre and Police Station in Mardan and arrested two TTP terrorists identified as Zakirullah and Faiz. Explosives were reportedly recovered from them.
Gen Sharif, according to a source, pointed out to the prime minister that despite the TTP’s apparent readiness to get involved in peace dialogue the militant group was still targeting troops. This, Gen Sharif emphasised, was unacceptable. The army has always expressed scepticism about the TTP’s sincerity towards any peace initiative.”

and this from Dr. Ataur Rehman on Musharaf’s treason trial
"Our government will be well advised not to humiliate a former army chief by trying to apply justice selectively on Gen Musharraf, and not on those involved in the 1999 coup, including many judges and leading politicians. Otherwise it will be taken as an act of vendetta and not justice. Some ‘experts’ claim that we should let the judicial proceedings continue as those involved in the 1999 coup will eventually be roped in as the trial proceeds. This is nonsense. The Supreme Court cannot, on its own, prosecute anyone for high treason under Article 6 of the constitution until specific charges to this effect are brought against such persons by the government.

It is believed by some myopic senior government officials that once you make an example of General Musharraf, other generals in the future would not dare to repeat the same act. These people are living in a fool’s paradise. The present actions may trigger a martial law and this time it could be violent – as is being contemplated by many experts, including Asma Jahangir. "

It appears that the army can have a legitimate case of national security concern and if Mush’s trial drags on and the negotiation/surrender to Taliban results in deteriorated civil war situation (that has been going on in Pakistan), army can take over again.

2

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

har shaaKh pe ulloo baiThaa hai
anjaam-e-gulistaan kia hogaa?

3

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

Well if Nawaz sharif is trying to wrest back his powers, this should be appreciated. It is the federal government which should decide the internal security and foreign affairs and not a general.

4

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

Agree, despite of all the differences i think Nawaz should be supported by all if he is trying to make decisions that are his responsibility rather than military.

5

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

If he N$ avoid the revenge poltics it's for him and democratical system as PPP did! What happened in past better to buried it but he is in revenge mood. Other thing related with internal authorities YES he is the man incharge to make decision and army still backing him even it's moral getting wrost due to Taliban upper hand on situation coz of civil govt want to do as per their interests.
Every General is not like kana dajal religious nuts aka Zia and this thing he not observing well.

6

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

I think (rather I hope) the plan is to push for negotiations which would obviously fail and open ways for the use of force citing 'we tried negotiations already'.

7

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

Pakistani print media is going absolutely bonkers, so many juicy gossips and rumours to play around with.

When nothing else works, just create the typical 'army and civilian government aren't getting along' drama.

8

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

Sharif vs Sharif? Nice

9

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

Knowing how Pakistani politics work and how elections are held in Pakistan, what would be your advice to India sitting on several 100 billion dollars reserves, if they want Kashmir and other disputed areas from Pakistan?

Forget about military solution and heavily invest on Pakistani politicians, civil bureaucracy and media?

Would it be nice idea to give Nawaz Shareef golden business (created) opportunity and incentives with guaranteed huge profits without risking any capital?

Would it be nice to start paying election expenses of all Pakistani politicians with Rs 50 crores spare money in their bank account?

How about buying a fully furnished luxury flat in Paris for sons of Pakistan chief justice and other judges, and a luxury Bentley car for Chief Justice of Pakistan as present?

How about giving generous scholarships to live and study in USA or Europe, to children of Pakistani bureaucrats above grade 19 and guaranteed 6 figures job after education in Indian mulit-nationals?

How about billion dollars in Swiss bank account of Nawaz, Zardari and other Pakistani top influential politicians?

How about billion dollars to top Pakistani media houses and also giving them huge advertisement businesses and other incentives?

How about spending billions of dollars on Pakistani journalists?

Would it be not nice for India to work on future plan to get all disputed areas from Pakistan through Pakistani parliament?

Would it be not nice for India to make Pakistan their colony with the help of Pakistani government backed by Pakistani parliament and senate?

Obviously, India could not do that with army officers, as they get employed in job at age of around 18 when no one knows who would be future army chief. Further, they are monitored from day one about their activities in and out of service. No chance of political influences, connections, or bribes for promotions until they reach top position, and obviously very little chance of bribes or political influence to get into forces.

[Actually, once armed forces is taken out of equation, I believe India would not even need more than couple of billion dollars to do everything what I mentioned above].

If anyone has any doubt on what I mentioned … please look at news report about Nawaz commitment to Pakistan … and think, with military neutralized and push of few billion dollars towards Pakistani politics, civil bureaucracy and media … what wonder India (or any country) can do to achieve their objectives.

Actually, what is mentioned above in video is just one sentence of NS.

I could not find the speech on net, but if anyone had seen one of Nawaz Shareef speech where many Indian Sikhs visiting Pakistan were present, Nawaz declared that Pakistanis and Indians are one people, with same culture, language, foods, clothing, history and even religion. According to Nawaz, he claimed that we call our creator Raab and so do Sikhs, and that since more Muslims live in India than Pakistan, line between two countries is but just a line (I believe, speech shown in above video is part of that speech).

10

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

^ The army has failed to provide us with Kashmir or strategic depth in Afghanistan, we are left with more than 50000 killed and the likes of TTP, LEJ, JEM and JUD roaming our streets. Besides the army should do the job for which they are employed, they are as much corrupt (if not more) as compared to their civilian counterparts and they cant be punished through our judicial system.

11

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

^^^ Bhai jaan, whatever you mentioned above is nothing but propaganda. Obviously, an army can do what they can. You cannot expect a buffalo, however strong, to fight an elephant. But one thing is trying (what army do) and other is laying down (what politicians do).

Actually, forget even laying down of politicians, Pakistani politicians are so corrupt (in every way), judiciary and media is also corrupt, election procedure weak, and accountability non-existence, that to expect any thing good from them is expecting good from drinking sewerage water.

To say that army is responsible of killing 50000 civilian is ridiculous claim. Actually, it is our mentality that gives so much value to religious jokers is responsible of all killings.

As for job or army, than please read world history. You will find that throughout centuries of civilization, job of army is not just to defend country from outside aggression, but to make sure that country is safe from parasites residing within the country too... rather, most of the time army have worked to save country from parasites within the country, especially incompetent and corrupt rulers ... though historically most past rulers were usually Army Chief too.

12

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

Is that why we have 70 Taliban groups operating in the country?

Mind reminding us who gave Pakistan the curse NRO?

13

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

where have taliban come from? dont you think the creators are responsible for the massacre of people?

14

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

^^^ Well, Taliban is not creation of armed forces (though they may have facilitated their creation), but Taliban got created due to mentality many Pakistanis have.

When we as Nation start appreciating Lal-Masjid Kharjee criminals, start calling fasad as Jihad, respect anyone who looks like rip-van-winkle, have religion defined by Mullah Umar and Munawar Hasan ... when our youth tries to imitate 60 year old disco going playboy, turned politician, turned Alim-e-Islam ... than that is what happens ... we get 70 Taliban groups fighting and doing suicide to get hoors (remember, playboy turned politicians got his hoor from London's disco love songs, but these retarded Taliban wants their hoor from songs of killing, suicide and fasad).

As for earlier post: We have to know that it is recent development that one governs the country and other commands armed forces (trained to command armed forces from young age). In past, most of the time, both offices were held by same person. Anyhow, with this development (division of office), power got diluted, with additional requirement of one who governs the country (as he has no power of forces).

That is, requirement of one who governs the country needs higher moral ground, and became too restricted under the observation and monitoring of effective and incorruptible accountability, bureaucracy, judiciary, and policing.

Thus, if civilian wants to govern the country without disturbance, than they would need to have high moral ground free from corruption, nepotism, mismanagement and misconduct, and also have to show competency and efficiency. County would also need independent, competent, efficient and incorruptible accountability system, judiciary system, bureaucracy system, and policing system.

15

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

^ Just log off from here, go to Amazon.com and get yourself a good history book. You are getting embarrassing.

I stopped reading the after the first line. I suggest people not to waste their time reading that drivel.

16

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

^^^ Nice comment ... showing ignorance of history too :)

Tell me name of few rulers who has a place in history as ruler (I mean, history few centuries in past from now), who did not had military training and/or was incapable of professionally commanding his armed forces in battle field? ... Rather, most of the time you will find person ruling also commanding armed forces in battle fields ... professionally.

17

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

Oh btw, somthing just caught my eye (thanks to my super efficient contacts)

[QUOTE]
when our youth tries to imitate 60 year old disco going playboy, turned politician, turned Alim-e-Islam
[/QUOTE]

I think the same or even worse can be said the Great Jinnah. Somewhere along the line, the idea that Jinnah would've been burned at stake in present day Pakistan holds some weight.

18

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

^^^ Do you mean to say that Mr Jinnah do not fulfills the requirement I posted earlier for civilian ruler?
Please read and tell me, what requirement Mr Jinnah was lacking?

Did Mr Jinnah had high moral ground free from corruption, nepotism, mismanagement and misconduct?

Was Mr jinnah incompetent or inefficient?

As far as I know, Mr Jinnah was not only competent and efficient, but had high moral ground ... and was free from lies, corruption, nepotism, mismanagement, misconduct, self-promotion, plot grabbing, commission, steeling, greed and most evil a person can have ... actually, he gave everything even what he earned due to his hard labour as lawyer to nation, not like present political rulers who loot and plunder the country at every opportunity and can sell their mother if paid appropriately.

And yea, Jinnah was not disco going playboy, turned politician turned alim-e-din ... though there is nothing wrong in these transition ... only problem is to be all 3 ... plus beach-boy romeo, old-man dating, opportunist party-boy, talking lies, etc, etc ... and all at the same time. :)

19

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

You conveniently ignored your own point which I believe was clearly quoted in the post before you.

20

Re: Is Army and civilian government headed for confrontation again?

^^^ I asked name of few persons from past history (starting earlier than from few centuries ago .. or earlier than 1700 AD or even 1800 AD) who were not army trained and ruled the country. What I wrote is general and not exception ... so one may find some, none being eminent rulers (as far as I know), but nevertheless, one would find most eminent rulers in history who were capable of both governing the nation and commanding the forces (as trained commanders). But you gave name of Quaid-e-Azam ... who is not from past history anyhow, as his appearance on political scene is much after this division of one 'governing the country' and other 'commanding the forces' has happened (that is after democracy got established in west).