Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
Peace Zalim
This thread has nothing to do with Isa (AS) and your logic is despicable.
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
asalamu alaikum
When Imaam Ahmad was approached with this belief that newly appeared and brought by the Jahmiyyah, that being that Allah is everywhere (Omnipresence), his reply back to them was of course a vehement rebuttal of their false belief. Moreover, part of his response to them in his Radd 'alal-Jahmiyyah was that He can think of many places where the Lord is not, and then he begane to name places that the Jahmiyyah affirmed through the belief that "He is everywhere". Ahmad bin Hanbal said
"He is not toilet and privies and in vile places where there is no trace of the Lord" likewise He is not within us for that entails as well the vilest of places within us. Nore is He in the dump or in any place that is unfit for the Lord.
Everywhere means "everywhere" and it does entail any exception otherwise exception contradicts the generality of "everywhere".
Anyways, the Muslims from time immemorial believed that Allah was above and beyond our creation and is not contained or infused with it.
asalamu alaikum warahmatullah
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
Allah (swt) is not confined by the space. He is the Lord of space.
Any avid student of the ways of the Quran will know that neither Quran, nor Prophets described the Creator in terms of any limit, scope, or extent. Rather they described Him in terms of His functions, any they led people towards Him in terms of His signs.
And though its grave injustice to compare Him to his creation. For the sake of attempting to answer the original question I will perhaps tell this child that if he can feel safe and cared-for when his/her mother gives him a bath then Allah's love and care is umpteenth greater. Thus s/he should not be feeling bad.
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
So by the discussion so far can we all agree to say that Allah is not everywhere but he is aware of and in control of everything and every place.
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
It is wrong to ask the question - because it forces answers that are equally wrong. By saying Allah is not everywhere implicit in that statement is the presupposition that a) Allah can be everywhere, but b) He is not and c) that Allah could be somewhere ... all of these are troublesome. It is better to say "It does not mean anything to ask where Allah is, because that question cannot be answered in a way that makes sense, hence the question is wrong".
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
[58:7] There is no secret conference of three but He is their fourth, nor of five but He is their sixth, nor of less or more but He is with them wherever they be: And afterward, on the Day of Resurrection, He will inform them of what they did. Indeed, Allah is Knower of All Things
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
I have taken a few relevant verses from the holy Quran and putting down here.
2:116) To Allah belong the East and the West; so withersoever you turn, there will be the face of Allah. Surely, Allah is Bountiful, All- Knowing.
50:17) And assuredly, We have created man and We know what his physical self whispers to him, and We are nearer to him than even his jugular vein.
6:104) Eyes cannot reach Him but He reaches the eyes. And He is the Incomprehensible, the All-Aware.
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
it would be more better to give basic knowledge of Islam to the kids, if we try to explore more islam in front of them, they might ask many weired question which you wont have answer for them,,, so with the age they will come,, and know each and every thing,,
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
Allah (swt) is not bound by Time and Space which is ingrained in human mind thus impossible to understand Allah (swt)
Everliving Allah (swt) 'Existed' before Time & Space was created.
There was a Time (human term) when there was nothing But Allah (swt) and for how long? This too only He is aware of it.
But He knows and is aware of every minute event that happened or will occur however deep in the oceans or furthrest points of space in human terms. Nothing escapes His knowledge.
Eyes cannot reach Him but He reaches the eyes. And He is the Incomprehensible, the All-Aware. (6:104)
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
He is The Incomprehensible !!! Indeed ...
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
Peace Iconoclast
It means we can't ask the question "Where is Allah (SWT)?" because we'll get answers that we don't understand.
On the other hand, some of us do try to get the answers that we don't understand. For example, cherry-picking on scientific theories about how humans came to earth just because we don't understand how to reconcile some of these theories with Adam/Eve story.
Great going!
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
Peace khoji
Thanks for the input … however you have put me in a situation where I need to defend my stance firstly for not attempting to answer that question but secondly to show whilst being a person of faith and belief I am also in a strong scientific disposition as well.
Firstly … As per the johari window File:Johari Window.PNG - Wikipedia … with modification on the horizontal headings to concrete and abstract … and vertical headings to rational and non-rational.
Hence in the domain of all things ‘true’ science restricts itself to that what is rational and it does not consider anything can exist to be non-rational yet it does entertain abstract ideas such as 4th and 5th dimensions for example. Being a person who holds that the non-rational things can be a part of ‘all true things’ then it holds science does not transcend the domain of reason.
Using reason we can answer certain questions without sufficient meaning to be able to understand the meaning, but enough to be satisfied with the response.
As a result for me if I can’t understand something I leave it alone … Thinking about how Adam and Eve came to the Earth is far easier to conceptualise than the concept of God existing forever or Pre-existent before time. If I am able to be satisfied with the latter then the former is mere putty.
Thanks for the prompt though!
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
psyah:
[quote]
whilst being a person of faith and belief I am also in a strong scientific disposition as well.
[/quote]
You may or may not like certain scientific theory based on your understanding, but problem is that your dislike is based on your inability to reconcile this theory with your religious interpretation.
[quote]
Thinking about how Adam and Eve came to the Earth is far easier
[/quote]
How is it easier?
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
Refer this website
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
psyah:
You may or may not like certain scientific theory based on your understanding, but problem is that your dislike is based on your inability to reconcile this theory with your religious interpretation.
How is it easier?
Peace khoji
One thing I am not is a liar so please take heed of my words carefully ... The reason why I take partiality to certain theories is because they are not scientific when their supporters claim them to be so ... I do not pick and choose theories to adopt. I have a very rigorous method to determine whether something is scientific. Such as demonstrable methods including observation of said phenomenon. The theory has to be constructed in such a way that it is falsifiable ... which means that it can be put to test. A certain theory that you are referring does not hence qualify and as a result it is called a belief not a scientific fact (others may wish to argue this point but this is my reasoning which everyone here should be able to understand).
How Adam (AS) and Eve (AS) came to the Earth is far easier to conceptualise than answer the question "Where is Allah (SWT)" - Do really want me to explain how it is easier? Ok ... For a first we are talking about two individuals who are as tangible and limited to time and space as we are ... God is nothing like us or anything like anything we can think of hence this is enough to explain that point.
If on the other hand you think I am going to compare the coming down of Adam and Eve to the alternative theory of evolution then strictly it does not belong in this thread ... however, I believe primarily that Allah (SWT) Creates in whatever way He so chooses. Be it in an instant or through development using forces of nature (As you can see my belief is capable of potentially agreeing with evolution) however I do not regard evolutionary- origins to life, to be scientific and hence do not need to adopt that as my basis to view scripture. I have not disregarded it - I have just not adopted it as fact ... there is a difference.
When I am told Adam and Eve are sent down to Earth I believe it to be so ... according to our definition "aliens" ... however their physiological make-up was all but alien ... it was the very substance of organic material. I also believe there were many living creatures on the Earth already prior to the grand human descent. Because I believe that my Lord is so Powerful and really believe it for Him to send down people from the sky is no big deal for me. At the end of the day it is a belief that I am happy with and I do not have to subject it to the rigour of science however in terms of reason I have already done that ... I have reasoned that if I believe that God Exists and if He does Exist He must be Mighty Powerful then I ask is He powerful enough to send man on Earth from Heaven and I come back with yes then it is easy for me to believe that ... What is the problem?
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
we we can guide our children a lot, if we have time for them,, so it is more better if we send our children to Islamic schools, where they can easily reach and and can get in good way, what is islam, what is Quran, and why we are in this world..
Re: Is Allah above the Arsh or everywhere?
We cannot see beyond certain frequencies of light. We cannot hear beyond certain frequencies of sound. We cannot feel beyond certain temperatures. We cannot smell certain chemicals.
With such extremely limited senses, how do we hope to even disclaim the idea there there could be many other living beings sharing our time and space which we cannot ever perceive. Can we really describe God in terms of time and space or even start to imagine the 'physical' attributes He has?