Iraqis drag dead foriegners through the streets

religion?

this has nothing to do with religion. these "terrorists" are doing the exact same thing any person who loves his country would do should they be invaded by an opposite nation.

If I were ignorant... uh, excuse me, I mean patriotic, and someone conquered amerika and put retards and puppets in control of everything, I'd get some bombs, kill a few, and drag their butchered remains down Martin Luther King Jr Boulevard.

But, I paid attention in school, and am thus at least slightly educated, and therefor, I cannot be patriotic.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
Burning, beating and hanging dead bodies from a bridge crosses any boundaries (especially for people who are invoking God's name when they are doing it). So there you go, so as not to disapoint you, I'm dragging in religion too.
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yes you are.. it's a nationalist insurgence.. a fightback to regain their country.. but of course it suits your purposes to drag culture and religion into it..

The people who did this were animals without question. Bringing there kids out to poke at dead bodies and what not. They're animals, the same people who ran the country when Saddam was in power.

Nomaan brought up religion in the thread,

"I can't see anyone, specifically muslims doing this".

Not sure where he's been hiding.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
yes you are.. it's a nationalist insurgence.. a fightback to regain their country.. but of course it suits your purposes to drag culture and religion into it..
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Yes, that is what your bigotry tells you. It suits your purposes to put the "insurgent" spin on this. What other "nationalist insurgences" use these methods to regain their country?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *

yes you are.. it's a nationalist insurgence.. a fightback to regain their country..

[/QUOTE]

Regain their country? From being rebuilt?

When someone gets attacked and humiliated in their own home, they tend to fight back with every means possible…sometimes even using illegitimate means to either gain back their rights, or simply humiliate their opponent right back. Like its hard to blame a girl who fights against her rapist by spitting on his face, and biting him wherever she can.
As henious as this incident is, its important that America realizes the whys in this case, rather than talk about choking them further. They have to remember that they are the invaders, the illegitimate presence there…regardless of the claims of so called liberation.

The following article from a year ago provides some insight into possibly why Fallujah residents harbor so much animosity, and why they are willing to go to animalistic extremes.

Source

Fallujah - A Shooting Too Far?
by Felicity Arbuthnot

The shooting of protesters outside a school at Fallujah, approximately 30 miles west of Baghdad - where US troops were apparently billeted - by US troops reportedly from the 1st Battalion of 325th Airborne Infantry Division of the 82nd Airborne Division, may be an outrage too far and return to haunt the US and UK troops. **Iraq is a country where historical memory is immediate and like Ireland, perceived or actual injustices never fade.

Out of a crowd of two hundred, it seems seventy five were injured and thirteen to fifteen killed - nearly half maimed or dead.**

Fallujah was seized by the British under General Stanley Maude on 19th March 1917. He is buried in Baghdad’s Rashid Cemetery. More recently Fallujah was provided by the UK, in the 1980’s with a fourteen million £ chemical factory to produce chlorine and phenol, named the Tariq plant. The deal was allegedly concealed from Parliament by the then Trade Minister, Sir Paul Channon.

When the Gulf war disrupted production at the Fallujah plant, Iraq successfully claimed three hundred thousand pounds compensation from the UK government"s Export Credit Guarantee Department. However, later Tariq became subject of UN weapons Inspector"s (UNSCOM) scrutiny and accused of producing chemical weapons, was destroyed.

**Fallujah is seared into Iraq’s collective psyche as completely as the attack on the Ameriyah civilian air raid shelter, bombed by US planes during the Gulf war. Also in 1991, the market in Fallujah was bombed, reportedly by US planes flying very low. Other reports say the UK planes were also involved. When residents ran to help the injured and seek the dead, in a familiar pattern, the planes returned and bombed the rescuers.

Former US Attorney General Ramsey Clark visited shortly after and reported at least two hundred civilian deaths and a stunning five hundred injured.

The attacks also leveled an Egyptian owned hotel and a row of modern, concrete five and six story apartments with a further (estimated at the time) two hundred dead. Military spokespersons later said they were aiming for a bridge, but Human Rights Watch reported that: “All buildings for four hundred meters on either side of the street - houses and market, were flattened.”

“The term ‘collateral damage’ is inapplicable”, says Ramsey Clark, pointing out that the attacks were in broad daylight, when much of the area would have been at its most populated. He states that attacks on civilians were stated by the military (then as now) were to “demoralize”.

To visit Fallujah is to be shamed - and stoned. The only place in Iraq I have ever experienced hostility. It is a hostility easy to understand. A tour of the re-established market - or anywhere else, reveals traders with amputated limbs who survived the attack - and not a person, seemingly, who has not lost one or more of their family.**

The Tariq plant at Fallujah was one of the stated reasons for the slaughter and invasion of Gulf War Two. “Iraq had embedded key portions of its chemical weapons infrastructure” Colin Powell is reported as saying, with Prime Minister Blair faithfully repeating the allegation last Autumn. (How they love that “embedded” word, does the Pentagon/State Department not have a Thesaurus?)

I visited the plant in 1999 and another cited chemical weapon plant at Al Doura in a suburb of Baghdad. Both had been completely trashed by UNSCOM. Days before Colin Powell and Tony Blair made their allegation, Count Hans von Sponeck, a former UN Assistant Secretary General and UN Co-ordinator in Iraq, visited both plants with a crew from German state television. He told this writer: “They are in the same trashed state as when you and I visited in 1999. There is one difference: the undergrowth is higher.”

“Hearts and minds” are being lost in Iraq with stunning speed. This further slaughter by an unwelcome, invading force, of a “liberated” crowd, may, I predict, mark the beginning of the end for the “coalition.” "They stole our oil, now they are killing our people’, said one grieving relative.

Writing this, I remembered the word on the street in Iraq, when I was there little over a month ago. It was encapsulated by a western educated Iraqi graduate of the Sorbonne, an intellectual who speaks numerous languages, a true international. “Let them come”, she said “we have been burying invaders for centuries - and we have plenty of spaces next to General Maude.”

Akif,

You are kidding me right?

The only way that Fallujah has been humilliated is by removing these beasts from Saddams seat of power. Fallujah was a recruiting ground of Saddams most loyal military and paramilitary leaders. These are the people who obeyed orders to kill Kurds, kill Shia, and to eliminate any political opposition.

How these thugs went from the rich and powerful to victims in your mind so quickly is a huge mystery. They were the OPPRESSORS of their fellow people for decades. If we let the Shia militias come to town, then you would see some Baathist victims.

What no one seems to be bringing to light is that this is the very same population that supported and/or participated in the atrocities committed by the Saddam regime against other Iraqis. They skinned their fellow people. They cut out their tongues and cut off their ears. They killed their own by dropping them in meat grinders (feet first if they wanted to inflict extreme pain). They deposited their fellow citizens into mass graves as a matter of routine.

Why would anyone be "surprised" that they would do that which is reported to these unfortunate souls participating in rebuilding Iraq? You wouldn't hail them as being good devout Muslims fighting for freedom of the Iraqi people when they were willing participants in Saddam's brutality against his people. They are not somehow transformed into good devout Muslims fighting for freedom of the Iraqi people now that their brutality is directed at others. This discussion should not invoke religion at all. The trait that defines them is not their Muslimness nor their Iraqiness. Their defining trait is their brutality and their total acceptance of and support for the murder, torture and death policies of their adored former leader.

They need to be considered no better than rabid dogs and eliminated.

EDIT:
You beat me to the punch OhioGuy. Well said.

why do our American friend insist on dragging the term "good Muslims" and the like into the discussion? The people of fallujah are angry and they showed their anger against the occupation.. when did their religion or their culture factor into this all?

and utd seriously.. that crap about 'rebuilding' is suited for Koppel dishing it out to the corporate media viewers.. it's still a war and it's not been won.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Akif,

You are kidding me right?

The only way that Fallujah has been humilliated is by removing these beasts from Saddams seat of power. Fallujah was a recruiting ground of Saddams most loyal military and paramilitary leaders. These are the people who obeyed orders to kill Kurds, kill Shia, and to eliminate any political opposition.

How these thugs went from the rich and powerful to victims in your mind so quickly is a huge mystery. They were the OPPRESSORS of their fellow people for decades. If we let the Shia militias come to town, then you would see some Baathist victims.
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No OG, Im not kidding.
What gives you the idea that all these militants are followers or hench men of Saddam? Some, or even most of them may be, but certainly not all. Because Fallujah was/is home to many Saddam followers, it has been ruthlessly targeted by US firepower. ANd in the process, more civilians and everyday innocents have been killed than we can count. THis collateral damage has led many non Saddam followers to take up arms against the occupation forces. Take Palestine for example. Havent we seen a lot of everyday palestinians become suicide bombers, rather than just Hamas members?

You have to realize the fact that one doesnt have to be a Saddam supporter in order to oppose America's invasion and occupation.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
why do our American friend insist on dragging the term "good Muslims" and the like into the discussion? The people of fallujah are angry and they showed their anger against the occupation.. when did their religion or their culture factor into this all?

and utd seriously.. that crap about 'rebuilding' is suited for Koppel dishing it out to the corporate media viewers.. it's still a war and it's not been won.
[/QUOTE]

And what were the good people of Fallujah angry at when they dropped their fellow Iraqis into meat grinders and mass graves?

Conversation between Guppie and Saddams chief executioner:

Guppie: So you were Saddam's chief executioner?

Baathist: Yes, but now I am oppressed.

Guppie: That must be horrible.

Baathist: Yes, it was so much more fun when I got to torture people, then kill them in heinous ways. Now, I do not get to do that any more, even though I fought bravely to keep Saddam in power.

Guppie: Well, you are brave nationalist Iraqi,, and that counts for a lot. What are you doing this afternoon?

Baathist: Well, if I can get past the checkpoint, I think I will try to go blow up some Iraqi Police.

Guppie: Aren't they muslims and Iraqi's though?

Baathist:Sure, but they represent a new Iraq, and we want the old one back.

Guppie: Well I can understand that, because despite being a vile murderer you have been oppressed by occupation for at least 15 minutes, so everything is cool...... and the Shia and the Kurds, they really don't count, we tend to overlook years of oppression, if it was just Muslims involved....

Baathist: This is such a great relief to talk to you! I thought you would condemn me for years of torture and murder.

Guppie: Naw, why worry about that stuff, when we have more important things to do like killing Americans.

Baathist: Well, I must be off.

Guppie: Great to meet you brother, char some Americans for me!

Its nice to see Americans suddenly so concerned about murderers and rapists in other countries, and invading them to bring these lowlifes to justice. Its so touching, actually.

that loud whirring sound heard coming from Falluja is a can-opener. Anyone care to guess what’s in the can? (hint: it ain’t creamed corn)

US Promises Overwhelming Response to Iraq Killings

By Luke Baker and Khaled Yacoub Oweis

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - U.S. troops on Thursday vowed to use overwhelming force to enter the volatile Iraqi town of Falluja and hunt down those who killed and mutilated four American contractors.

Marines took up positions on the outskirts of the restive town west of Baghdad where insurgents ambushed the contractors on Wednesday, but the U.S. army’s deputy director of operations Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt said they would return.

“Coalition forces will respond,” Kimmitt told a news conference. "They are coming back and they are going to hunt down the people responsible for this bestial act.

“It will be at a time and a place of our choosing. It will be methodical, it will be precise and it will be overwhelming.”

Television footage of jubilant Iraqis mutilating the bodies recalled events in Mogadishu in 1993, when a crowd dragged the bodies of American soldiers through the streets, hastening the departure of U.S. forces from Somalia.

Falluja was relatively quiet on Thursday, but residents said more bloody killings should be expected.

“The Americans may think it is unusual but this is what they should expect. They show up in places and shoot civilians so why can’t they be killed?” Falluja shop worker Amir said.

U.S. troops fired on demonstrators in Falluja last April, killing at least 15 people. Many residents then vowed revenge.

Guerrillas near the town detonated a roadside bomb as a U.S. convoy passed by, wounding three soldiers. One Humvee left behind by American soldiers near the site of the attack was later set ablaze and looted by a crowd of Iraqis.

A roadside bomb killed five U.S. soldiers on Wednesday in the same area, a hotspot for resistance to the occupation.

The U.S governor of Iraq (news - web sites) Paul Bremer vowed to hunt down those responsible for ambushing the contractors, and those who then torched the corpses and dragged them through the streets before hanging them from a bridge.

“The acts we have seen were despicable and inexcusable,” he said. “They violate the tenets of all religions, Islam included, as well as the foundations of civilized society. Their deaths will not go unpunished.”

They are in the middle of a change-over in personnel in that area, the 82nd Airborne is leaving, and the Marines are arriving. Bet they will have the 82nd stay on a little longer, and take both groups in.

Full scale urban warfare in a week.

^ Dude, you almost sound gleeful.

And then you moan and complain why other people hang Americans on a bridge.

The hypocricy is not even funny.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
Conversation between Guppie and Saddams chief executioner:

[/QUOTE]

OG. You still fail to see the difference:)
Not all Iraqis are 'Bathists'. You have to realize the fact that some of them have never bathed in their entire lives.

As far as the killing of americans goes, you can certainly talk about it being a crime if done in america, but in Iraq, its a war, and we have witnessed barbarity on both sides. Read the above article on how entire buildings were flattened, and how, in the name of collateral damage, many non baathists were wiped out as well. Dont you think many of those non-baathists harbor a long standing resentment against america based on the families they have lost, despite NOT being a part of saddams regime?

Indifference breeds hatred. Its not as automatic as you make it seem. Just because someone is fighting or opposing US presence in Iraq doesnt automatically make them pro Saddam. YOu want the world to believe that all Iraqis, minus Saddams loyalists, have welcomed americans into their country. That is as far from the truth as east from west.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Prism Man: *
^ Dude, you almost sound gleeful.

And then you moan and complain why other people hang Americans on a bridge.

The hypocricy is not even funny.
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"Gleeful" is definitely the wrong word. When you have an infestation of rats or cockroaches in your house, you are not "gleeful" that you have had to bring in the exterminator. "Resolute," yes. "Steadfast", yes. A bit "apprehensive", perhaps. "Relieved" when the vermin are gone, most definitely.

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Originally posted by myvoice: *
When you have an infestation of rats or cockroaches in **your
* house
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"Your house"? Really? :-|

Since when did Iraq became "your house"? Its not your house, and this is precisely Americans are being kicked, murdered, hanged and mutilated in the streets of Iraq.

Get over the misconceptions, for a second. Better yet, get out of there.

Yeah, get out of there. Don't spend billions to rebuild the country. Don't provide security to stop the cycle of oppression and murder. Don't leave the foundations of democracy and representation. Leave them be so they can mutilate, drag and hang their own people.