The odd thing about all this is that the US says it does not want to kill innocents. But then they tell us about how the Iraqi military is forced into service because of a cruel dictator and if they refused they would die. So essentially the majority of the Iraqi military would be innocents - civilians forced to fight against their will. Quite a conundrum.. oh, American Idol is on!!
(I don’t really watch that :yukh: )
Good point. :k:
Yogi seriously I couldn't care less how the Iraqi's fought.. when your homeland is invaded, you take up whatever means you have at your disposal to defend it.. the spirit is commendable, the resistance was futile.
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
Yogi seriously I couldn't care less how the Iraqi's fought.. when your homeland is invaded, you take up whatever means you have at your disposal to defend it.. the spirit is commendable, the resistance was futile.
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Spirit of what? defending a regime that majority of your coutrymen hate?
but yes I do commend their spirit to sacrifice themselves for teh sake of Saddam. Few of them might have a reasons, many others were just fools.
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*Originally posted by Yogi: *
Spirit of what? defending a regime...
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Good God...does no one get it yet? They are defending their country, not Saddam Hussein. jeez.
Right ^ 
^ Kuch theek sai kaho yaar.
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*Originally posted by Yogi: *
Spirit of what? defending a regime that majority of your coutrymen hate?
but yes I do commend their spirit to sacrifice themselves for teh sake of Saddam. Few of them might have a reasons, many others were just fools.
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Are you implying that the American soldiers who have so far laid down their lives invading Iraq did it for Dubya and not their country??
Hmm how would one justify doing it for either?
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*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
Are you implying that the American soldiers who have so far laid down their lives invading Iraq did it for Dubya and not their country??
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US is a democracy, Iraq is a dictatorship. You should know the answer...
Since Iraq is a dictatorship, i would assume most Iraqi soldiers are conscripts... they do not have the luxury of deciding whether or not to register for military service. Spoon made this point in another thread and i think it is quite valid.
Besides that, the point still remains that the majority of Iraqis are doing what they perceive of as defending their homeland. That is highly commendable to say the absolute least. It is NO different than any other individual, including American soldiers, who sign up to fight for their country. They may not feel any personal love towards George, but they do it nevertheless. Why do we perceive of Iraqi soldiers as less than human in making this decision?
Nadia you are missing the point once again. The republican troops and fedayeen are more from a mind set of teh german SS and Hitler's army. The mind set of these soldiers is more akin to brainwashing than professionalism or love for the land. If it was the latter, how could they have killed so any of their own.
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*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
US is a democracy, Iraq is a dictatorship. You should know the answer...
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huh?? whatever the hell does that have to with people defending their homeland?? What do they care who's sitting in his palace or White House?
btw did the Congress authorize this war??
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*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
The republican troops and fedayeen are more from a mind set of teh german SS and Hitler's army.
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i disagree. No doubt some of them are, but i can't make the same leap to paint them all with the same brush.
There's this tendency to view Iraqi soldiers as somehow less than human. Form a mental picture in your mind of the average injured American soldier versus Iraqi soldier - we all know which one we would tend to side with more out of sympathy.
The fact that Iraqi soldiers are fighting for their country makes them - in my eyes - deserving of my respect. They are no different than the average Joe Smith who goes to sign up at his local US army registration station. There was so much fuss over the 19 year old Jessica Lynch who was rescued from an Iraqi hospital (no torture cell). What about the 1000 Iraqi soldiers who may have been wiped out very recently ? i have not heard a single mention of one Iraqi name out of that one thousand. Listening to media reports, it would seem like not one Iraqi soldier was someone's father, husband, boyfriend, or son. Why are they less human than other soldiers ?
PA, read your post dude. My response was in reference to your assertion that Iraqi troops, i.e. Republican guards and Fedayeen are supposed patriots not coerced SS types.
Yes Nadia, Iraqi lives are not as important as American lives to Americans. As uncomfortable as that might make you. That is the truth. Muslim lives are a lot more important to muslims than let's say RWandans. Otherwise there would have been rallies in pakistan and jihad declared to stop the bloodshed. this is simply one example of many. Iraq and particulalry Saddama dn baath party governance is a direct prototype of hitlersque rule. Iron fist and all.
If that’s the truth, then fair enough.
In about another ten years or so when i am 32, just like the infamous ‘turkey shoot’ in 1991, i guess we will come to realize later what actually occurred in the deaths of those 1000 Iraqi soldiers. Until then, i can remain in my blissfully ignorant state.
I will concede that a majority of those fighting in the republican Guard and fedayeen are willing combatants. But overall a majority of those fighting against the 'coalition' troops are not. They are not just people that enlisted in the military that disagree with Saddam on issues of welfare or abortion; they are forced to serve - the alternative is jail or death.
This is the point played up by the US administration as part of their attempt to villify the Iraqi government, albeit with the fancy wording removed. That makes these unwilling combatants innocents - civilians forced into a uniform.. very little different than a 5 year old girl. Now, of course, in times of war or crisis it is natural for a government to villify and dehumanize the other side. It has always been the case since the earliest history. But the ways that they go about doing this are not immune from the truth or challenge. In this respect I say the US has failed miserably.. much of their argument is debatable to the point of uselessness.
So, killing an Iraqi soldier is equivalent to killing an Iraqi civilian. This only serves to degrade the self-proclaimed moral position of the 'coalition'. But these simple words won't affect the future. The children of these unwilling combatants who died will carry holes in their hearts and it is all to easy for those holes to be filled with anger. That is what will affect the future.
Really this is only a philosophical debate.. no one really cares because it only makes arguments for war more complex. Complex arguments are hard to sell.
No one can say that the Iraqi soldiers are not brave. They are extremely brave and daring and deserve utmost respect.
I'm sure the U.S./ U.K. soldiers respect them.
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*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
Yes Nadia, Iraqi lives are not as important as American lives to Americans. As uncomfortable as that might make you. That is the truth. Muslim lives are a lot more important to muslims than let's say RWandans. Otherwise there would have been rallies in pakistan and jihad declared to stop the bloodshed. this is simply one example of many. Iraq and particulalry Saddama dn baath party governance is a direct prototype of hitlersque rule. Iron fist and all.
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Let me assure you that all Americans do not feel that way. I think the life of an Iraqi is just as important as any American. God loves each person on this Earth, just the same.
You can not knock the Iraq people for fighting for their families and homes.
I would not so much as break a finger nail for George W. Bush, but I would sure fight with everything I had if another nation were to attack the United States.