Iraq = Vietnam? / Iraq costing U.S. $4 billion a month (MERGED)

of deaths identified by the department of defense since the end of major operations, 1 May 2003 onward:

06/19/2003: 4 dead
06/18/2003: 1 dead
06/17/2003: 1 dead
06/16/2003: 3 dead
06/11/2003: 1 dead
06/10/2003: 2 dead
06/09/2003: 1 dead
06/06/2003: 2 dead
06/04/2003: 1 dead
06/04/2003: 1 dead
06/03/2003: 1 dead
06/02/2003: 3 dead
05/30/2003: 1 dead
05/29/2003: 1 dead
05/28/2003: 4 dead
05/27/2003: 1 dead
05/26/2003: 1 dead
05/22/2003: 5 dead
05/21/2003: 2 dead
05/20/2003: 1 dead
05/19/2003: 3 dead
05/16/2003: 1 dead
05/14/2003: 4 dead
05/12/2003: 2 dead
05/11/2003: 3 dead
05/09/2003: 1 dead
05/06/2003: 1 dead
05/05/2003: 1 dead
05/02/2003: 1 dead

Time period: 47 days
Dead: 54

Increasing worry over the daily killings of US soldiers is leading to American’s making parallels with Vietnam. In fact just like Vietnam some are calling for more troops to be rushed into the killing fields of Iraq.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14499-2003Jun19.html

Rising U.S. Death Toll In Iraq Spurs Concern

Inside the Bush administration, where top officials resolutely emphasize postwar progress in Iraq while playing down the setbacks, the rising American death toll and the increasing number of attacks on U.S. troops are causing increasing worry. The death of a U.S. soldier yesterday near Baghdad brought to nine the number of troops killed in Iraq this month in a string of sporadic rocket and sniper attacks. Fifty-four Americans have died in accidents or military action since President Bush declared the war ended on May 1, equal to more than one-third of the 139 wartime deaths. Bush and his top military and foreign policy officials define the casualties as a necessary cost of a successful military occupation. They say the deaths, while painful, are secondary to recent progress on economic and security issues. As one said yesterday, “Are we better off today than we were a month ago? Yes.” Yet senior aides and members of Congress are talking warily of the dangers ahead, as well as the potential political and diplomatic fallout, amid evidence that Iraqi renegades are determined to fight. Indeed, the commanding general of the U.S. Army’s 4th Infantry Division charged this week that anti-American forces are paying Iraqis to kill troops. The perils are significant. It has become clear that U.S. troops will form the majority of the international force in Iraq for many months. Some voices on Capitol Hill, describing the casualties and the extent of the armed Iraqi opposition, have begun to argue that the Bush administration must send more troops or recruit others.

“American troops are being killed daily. Some American family awakens to the news as I did this morning, to find that another American has been killed, and that family that day will have its hearts broken,” Rep. Ike Skelton (Mo.), the ranking Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, said during a Wednesday hearing. “There are significant hostile forces,” Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) told a National Press Club audience yesterday. “There are forces we can’t see. There are competitions between power groups vying for power. There’s retribution, there’s retaliation. And I don’t think we do have enough manpower in there.” In one acknowledgement of the troubles, White House press secretary Ari Fleischer and other Bush aides have recently put a greater emphasis on the risks. Bush, however, did not mention U.S. casualties when speaking in Minnesota yesterday. Aides said Bush intends to accentuate the positive while speaking about “the challenges and the dangers as we continue to fight the war on terrorism.” Asked why there has been so little public discussion by the Bush defense and foreign policy team about the continuing attacks, one official said other issues have dominated the agenda, including the administration’s efforts at Middle East peacemaking and the dispute over evidence of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. “Part of it,” the official said, “is that everybody is dealing with the WMD story.”

The domestic political fallout remains muted, but analysts and pollsters said it could become significant if the attacks continue and the death toll climbs. “It hasn’t reached much of a decibel level yet,” said Ohio State University professor John Mueller, a specialist on the politics of combat casualties, “but it seems very likely it will in due course.” Opinion research companies are only now beginning to seek reactions to postwar casualties, but majorities of people polled before the war said 1,000 or more U.S. combat deaths would be acceptable if Iraq were disarmed and Saddam Hussein toppled. Gallup Poll editor Frank Newport said the context of U.S. deaths will be important. “It’s not so much the casualties themselves – we’ve seen the American public has shown a willingness to tolerate casualties – but what it says about the success of the larger objectives,” Newport said. If conditions improve and Iraqis demonstrate general support for the U.S. presence, he added, isolated attacks are likely to be viewed as just that. U.S. military commanders attribute the attacks that have killed 16 American troops since May 1 to “rogue” elements and “remnants” of Hussein’s forces – part of what Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld calls the “untidy” aftermath of regime change.

Maj. Gen. Ray Odierno, commander of the Army’s 4th Infantry Division, said his troops battle “almost daily” with Baath Party loyalists, militant Islamic fundamentalists and Iraqis “who are poor and are being paid to attack U.S. forces.” Interrogations of Iraqis who have tried to kill Americans have revealed payments to anti-American mercenaries, he said. Aggressive U.S. tactics have forced Iraqis to attack more often, Odierno told reporters by teleconference from Baghdad. Yet he believes the capture of Iraqi suspects and seizure of millions of dollars has weakened the opposition groups, which he called increasingly desperate. The attacks so far, Odierno said, are “militarily insignificant.” He described them as “very small” and “very random.” He said they are having “no impact on the way we conduct business on a day-to-day basis in Iraq” and asserted that the attackers themselves are becoming less organized. The most recent attack occurred yesterday south of Baghdad. A rocket-propelled grenade hit a U.S. military ambulance, killing one American and wounding two others. Earlier in Samarra, north of Baghdad, a rocket-propelled grenade struck a U.S. tank, but no one was hurt. In Congress, Rep. Martin T. Meehan (D-Mass.), spoke this week of “losing an American a day” in maintaining that more troops from around the world should be dispatched to Iraq to keep the peace and relieve U.S. forces. Rep. Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii) said the current situation reminds him of the time when he first began to have doubts about the Vietnam War. Rumsfeld said Wednesday that Americans will be patient and will tolerate the U.S. casualties. “I believe that they feel that this is a worthwhile effort on our part,” Rumsfeld said at a Pentagon briefing, “that it is something that reflects the American spirit, and they recognize the difficulty of the task.”

For Iraq is to be vietnam, you have to kill or injure 200 US soldiers every week and perhaps then after a couple of decades America will leave. Don't make silly comparisons.

Kaakay dont forget the Beirut bombing that killed 241 Marines, and led to a hasty US withdrawl. Invasion is very simple when u have 4th generation bombers aiming at a medieval, demoralized army. The real test is controlling the mess left once u invade, and the US hasnt been very good at that. A recent example being Afghanistan, where they quickly gave the control to UN keepers, since they werent able to control the chaos. Well guess what...there aint no UN this time to watch over ur sorry asses.

First comes the grenade and then the "awe"

I am not sure if any amount of arab hashish can bring calm to the nervous souls of the US soldiers, just like the chronic- vietnamese-bud did during the days of vietnam war. But, the poor American souls need some sort of relief as they are falling like dead flies..literally.. :D

Maybe, the Americans need to develop some space-aged body armor against the second world war era rocket-propelled grendades, but tell ya' these Iraqis are the master of disguise and surprises,... awe..or oouuch for those hurting tushies being kicked...wished they had known better..

Agreed.....but..errr...its the BANG that comes after the Grenade...and "ooh" "aah" and "ouch" comes after that....it is said that NO regular army shell go against any civilian population and or gorilla groups ... different war tactics and weapons....

Come on yar, who are we kidding. They got Iraq without a fight (even though they claim the republican gaurd fought, but it was a drama)... The WMD drama would go on, but they are likely to get the oil that they came for.

This was just too easy for them, lets just pray they dont go after other countries, particularly syria and iran.

comon people grow up iraq is now american colony. these hit and run attacks are not going to last long. iraqis will soon have to learn american accent to find job and in some years there will be a new genration of arab americans
now i understand why some people are hated in pakistan

Re: First comes the grenade and then the "awe"

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdullah k: *
I am not sure if any amount of arab hashish can bring calm to the nervous souls of the US soldiers, just like the chronic- vietnamese-bud did during the days of vietnam war. But, the poor American souls need some sort of relief as they are falling like dead flies..literally.. :D

[/QUOTE]

The BBC are reporting over two dozen incidents involving the US soldiers and Iraqi fighters in Baghdad alone last night..

Quagmire...

You cannot compare this vietnam or Korean war. The Vietcong were eleminating/destroying 15 terrorist/day while Little Kims daddy was far more brutal he was desroying 50 terrorist per day. Given that in Vitenam and Korea there were 500,000+ terrorist at any given time and there are 250,000 in Iraq unless the attrition rate is 5+ send to hell each day you are far from Vietnam let alone Korea..

BTW here is another kill of the day…

http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/apmethods/apstory?urlfeed=D7RS8I980.xml

Attackers fired on British forces in southern Iraq on Tuesday, killing six troops and wounding eight others in the deadliest confrontation for coalition forces since the fall of Saddam Hussein.

since the fall of Saddam Hussein.<<<<

Liars. He is still in power according to some Arab newspapers, and so are the Mullah in Iran. It's time to head East. Iraq has been restored to its past glory, now time to bring Persia into the golden age.

It’s getting worse and worse for the occupiers…

Baghdad ambushes kill 2 U.S. soldiers, 2 more missing](http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/06/26/iraqattack_030626)

Oh my GWAD! How could this be happening? I thought they were welcoming the US soldiers like brothers. Like they did in Afghanistan :rolleyes:

Yet another American soldier shot, and wonded…

U.S. Soldier Shot Shopping in Baghdad-Witnesses](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3001005)

The increasing death toll is a tragedy for both American and Iraqi peoples…hopefully those in power will realise the futility of this occupation, before it is to late?

Damn...now why werent these guys in the Iraqi military?

*In Congress, Rep. Martin T. Meehan (D-Mass.), spoke this week of "losing an American a day" in maintaining that more troops from around the world should be dispatched to Iraq to keep the peace and relieve U.S. forces *

Well that's almost funny. Occupation by proxy.

I heard the Indians are being offered the job.... guess lucrative software contracts do have some strings attached afterall.

Yet more deaths of American soldiers…

U.S. Soldier Killed, Four Wounded in Iraq](Yahoo News: Latest and Breaking News, Headlines, Live Updates, and More)

As more and more people are starting to openly say…

Guerrilla war feared in Iraq](BBC NEWS | Middle East | Guerrilla war feared in Iraq)

Add another on in Afghanistan to that list.
Lemmings…

More collateral damage…first missing now dead…

Even More Lemmings