Iraq: 290 Mass Graves 300,000 Bodies

Lest we forget, Saddam, and the people who are blowing people up daily in Iraq are responsible for countless atrocities. What do you suppose the Uday and Qusay would have done over the next 20 years?

Graves Thought to Hold Hussein’s Victims
By ROBERT F. WORTH

BAGHDAD, Iraq, April 14 - Investigators have discovered several mass graves in southern Iraq that are believed to contain the bodies of people killed by Saddam Hussein’s government, including one estimated to hold 5,000 bodies, Iraqi officials say.

The graves, discovered over the past three months, have not yet been dug up because of the risks posed by the continuing insurgency and the lack of qualified forensic workers, said Bakhtiar Amin, Iraq’s interim human rights minister. But initial excavations have substantiated the accounts of witnesses to a number of massacres. If the estimated body counts prove correct, the new graves would be among the largest in the grim tally of mass killings that have gradually come to light since the fall of Mr. Hussein’s government two years ago. At least 290 grave sites containing the remains of some 300,000 people have been found since the American invasion two years ago, Iraqi officials say.

Forensic evidence from some graves will feature prominently in the trials of Mr. Hussein and the leaders of his government. The trials are to start this spring.

One of the newly discovered graves, near Basra, in the south, appears to contain about 5,000 bodies of Iraqi soldiers who joined a failed uprising against Mr. Hussein’s regime after the 1991 Persian Gulf war. Another, near Samawa, is believed to contain the bodies of 2,000 members of the Kurdish clad led by Massoud Barzani.

As many as 8,000 men and boys from the clan disappeared in 1983 after being rounded up in northern Iraq by security forces at the command of Ali Hassan al- Majid, widely known as Chemical Ali. It remains unclear, however, how the victims ended up in the south.

Investigators have also discovered the remains of 58 Kuwaitis spread across several sites, including what appears to be a family of two adults and five children who were crushed by a tank, Mr. Amin said. At least 605 Kuwaitis disappeared at the time of the first gulf war, and before the latest graves were discovered, fewer than 200 had been accounted for, he added.

A smaller site was discovered near Nasiriya earlier this week. Arabic satellite television showed images of residents digging up remains there.

Mr. Amin declined to give the exact locations of the graves, saying it could endanger witnesses to the massacres and anyone working at the sites.

One obstacle to exhuming bodies has been an absence of DNA labs and forensic anthropologists in Iraq, Mr. Amin said.

In the aftermath of Mr. Hussein’s fall, thousands of Iraqis overran mass grave sites, digging for their relatives’ remains with backhoes, shovels, even their bare hands. A number of sites were looted, making identification of victims difficult, said Hanny Megally, Middle East director for the International Center for Transitional Justice.

The American occupation authority, after some initial hesitation, began classifying grave sites, and international teams began traveling to the sites in 2003 to conduct assessments or exhumations. But toward the end of 2004, rising violence led nearly all the teams to abandon their work.

Only one site has been fully examined, a grave of Kurdish victims in northern Iraq, Mr. Megally said. That work was overseen by the Regime Crimes Liaison Office, which is gathering evidence for the trials of Mr. Hussein and his deputies.

The interim Iraqi government, working with the United Nations, has drawn up plans for a National Center for Missing and Disappeared Persons that would have authority over all aspects of the process, from exhumations to providing assistance to victims’ families.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/15/international/middleeast/15graves.html

Re: Iraq: 290 Mass Graves 300,000 Bodies

OG I dont think that the people blowing up ppl in Iraq are those responsible for these graves. These graves are the handiwork of Saddam and co. Its a shame that we ever called this guy our ally in the region.

The guys blowing up ppl these days seem to be more of the extremists who were loathed as much by saddam as by the rest of us. They may now be in cahoots with remnants of his forces, but they have their own set of atrocities to account for.

Re: Iraq: 290 Mass Graves 300,000 Bodies

Fraudz,

It is a brutal frikkin place. It always has been a brutal place.

And frankly, Saddam was never an "ally" like the Shah was. The entire world should have seen Saddam for what he was, and worked to remove him. To this day no international tribunal has ever indicted Saddam. He is the ultimate testimony to why multilateralism seldom works, and the 300k bodies are evidence of a collosal failure at the UN. Funny, but Kofi Annan gave himself a public rebuke for not reacting to Rwanda in time, but never acknowledged that if Saddam had promptly been indicted after 1991, an invasion and years of sanctions might have been avoided.

Saddam did not kill 300k people alone. He had plenty of help. Those responsible should be the next group tried. Those folks and their kin are largely responsible for the mindless brutality going on now in Iraq. There was no hesitiation in killing Iraqis before, there is none now.

Re: Iraq: 290 Mass Graves 300,000 Bodies

and do you know that u.s and west was behind Saddam and they supported him and gave him weopens(that were used to kill those people) untill 1990.so all of the west and u.s is as responsible as sadam is. and for your info, jahidies were never with saddam and never supported him, so they are not responsible for it.

so,when you are going to make a thread about u.s and rest of west

Re: Iraq: 290 Mass Graves 300,000 Bodies

^^ We have actually had a number of those threads here. Use the search function if you like. As I remember the facts, 97% of the weapons were provided by the Russians, or Soviet Bloc countries. The US provided about 1% of the "weapons", and even then, they provided unarmed helicopters that could be converted to military use, and unarmed trucks that could be used by the military. The US provided about 2% of the "funding" for Saddam, largely through agricultural loans. The most important thing the US provided to Saddam was satellite images of Iranian troop formations. Most of those people were killed with AK-47s, provided by the godless communists, with whom the US had a running 50 year battle.

Jihadis certainly viewed Saddam as an evil man, and not a good Muslim. However, the oldest expression in the Arab world is, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." A common hatred for the West could have made Saddam and the jihadis partners. Saddam had weapons, and the jihadis had the means to deliver them. That is a very attractive and dangerous package to the both of them. Wheter there were any alliances, we many never know.

Lastly, put blame where blame is due. Saddam killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims. Period. Never mind the wars he started with Iran and Kuwait.

Because if I used your logic, Pakistan, as an "friend" and trading partner of the US is directly responsible for Bushs' actions right?

Re: Iraq: 290 Mass Graves 300,000 Bodies

quite a thoughtfull thread indeed.
but TO MY KNOWLEDGE americans always support stooges like saddam, our own generalismo,hosni Mobarak and karzai coz that gives them quite a lot of room to make decision for their own benefit and simply put nobody cares abt u if u dont care abt urself.

Re: Iraq: 290 Mass Graves 300,000 Bodies

OG

I hope the the downfall of saddam is an eye opener for his clones in syria, egypt and iran that they need to shape up, and shape up soon. It already looks like Qaddafi has repented or is atleast posturing as if he has changed his ways.

The removal of this madman came at a very high price for Iraqis, who suffered much during desert storm, teh sanctions and the latest round. Allied forces should not have stopped in 1991, they left their job incomplete and had to go back to finish it off.

Hopefully in future madmen like him get no second chances.

Re: Iraq: 290 Mass Graves 300,000 Bodies

^^

Boota,
Do you really think Mushy has all those troops in the Frontier Area trooping around to please Bush? Not a chance. He believes it is in HIS best interest and that of Pakistan to cleanse the area of foreign influence. Thats simply rational behavior. but stooges are overrated. No "stooge" can stay in power if the people of the country do not cooperate.

The US has supported stooges. I hope you have noticed that this has changed. When Bush calls for democratization of the Middle East, he is accepting that tumoil will naturally result. He has done verything but decalre it a stooge-free zone. But look at the rest of the world. The entire Eastern Block of Europe is free of the Soviet Union, largely because the US resisted the communists and caused their economy to implode. The US has also removed thugs like Noriega and about nine times in Haiti.

As always we have strayed into US foreign policy, as is mandatory at Gupshup. There are 300,000 graves in Iraq, and perhaps the world would be best served by looking at those PRINCIPALLY responsible, as well as the inaction of those charged with preventing that salughter of Muslim people. How did the Muslim world, all 1.2 Billion of them overlook the slaughter of these people? There was certainly no moral outrage. Why was there no cry for justice at this "Stooge" who slaughtered 300,000 Muslims?

And Fraudz, many in the US wanted Saddam gone in 1991. In those days we followed the will of the "coalition", and most Muslim soldiers would not have invaded Iraq. Nor would the UN authorize the removal of Saddam or even a war crimes trial for the atrocities commited by the Iraqis in Kuwait.

Re: Iraq: 290 Mass Graves 300,000 Bodies

If i recall the US blocked a UN resolution on the Iran-Iraq war..they attempted to label Iran as the aggressor...

Re: Iraq: 290 Mass Graves 300,000 Bodies

No moral outrage for 2 reasons

  1. lack of knowledge, news were never really covered, just like in US.
  2. self declared defenders of faith would not have received much political mielage from it so it was not included in their propoganda either.

In absence of info, majority of ppl did not know the level of atrocities of the saddam regime.

now for 1991, the coalition may have been gun shy but leadership would have demanded that US convince them. That did not take place. Anyways thats a diff topic.