Iranian President

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Iranian President

fraudia you seem confused or are you a supporter of US foreign policy?

anyone who stands up is an idiot?

me confused? not at all, just because I dont like this regime does not make me some supporter of US foriegn policy..

anyone who criticizes these morons becomes a supporter of US foriegn policy?

I could be opposed to US foriegn policy and still consider this character an idiot, is that hard to digest or are we still living in some sort of black and white world?

ppl talk against other leaders on a daily basis here, what so different with this guy that opposing him is a no no?

[vroom]

Re: Iranian President

me confused? not at all, just because I dont like this regime does not make me some supporter of US foriegn policy..

anyone who criticizes these morons becomes a supporter of US foriegn policy?

I could be opposed to US foriegn policy and still consider this character an idiot, is that hard to digest or are we still living in some sort of black and white world?

ppl talk against other leaders on a daily basis here, what so different with this guy that opposing him is a no no?

he is only known for his stand against US foreign policy, actually the only one who is.

all his well known comments have been about the injustices or results of US foreign policy, so yes you do knock him down to knock down his cause and thus further the policy

if he is wrong then so is all the hoopla about US foreign policy

you CANNOT satisfy the pro israelli groups and remain against US foreign policy. save yourself some tip toeing or pretending

[pak-one]

Re: Iranian President

i can see what your defending but what is it that you dont like?

i don't like the fact that someone whose country's economy is in shambles has these wide ranging ideas on the ME. I have many things to say about the Iranian President that are critical, but the topic of the thread is the reception he received in the US, which was quite poor.

The Palestinian issue is an arab matter. Last I checked, Persians were not arab.

[pak-one]

Re: Iranian President

he is only known for his stand against US foreign policy, actually the only one who is.

all his well known comments have been about the injustices or results of US foreign policy, so yes you do knock him down to knock down his cause and thus further the policy

if he is wrong then so is all the hoopla about US foreign policy

you CANNOT satisfy the pro israelli groups and remain against US foreign policy. save yourself some tip toeing or pretending

Actually Hugo Chavez was quite vitriolic towards the American foreign policy at the UN last year. Bush = Satan. I found that to be equally distasteful.

[Seminole]

Re: Iranian President

A small word called diplomacy - something that Americans never properly learned.

And this moron has? He comes into our country with his lying, egonmanical and evil ways and what? He's supposed to be treated with respect? I don't think so. He is basically a sworn enemy against our country and our values.

[quote]
Same has been said about the current US President by Americans. Forget the camel jockeys, the US President has been compared to hitler/facist, however that does not preclude him from receiving diplomatic treatment when traveling. As the head of state, he should be entitled to it.
[/quote]
I'm sorry I don't live in your socialist utopia where all are equal. Bush, in all his ignorance, is still the leader of the free world. The president of the most powerful country in the history of the world. With that comes power and a certain amount of respect whether you earned it or not. That's the way of the world. Always has been. Haves and have nots. Wasn't any different when Persia or the Ottomans ruled the world. Dictators of insignificant desert kingdoms are just that, blow hards and super power aspirations aside.

[quote]
He is entitled to his opinions, right or wrong However as a head of state, he should not have been insulted by the President of a second tier Ivy league University (sorry, it ain't H-Y-P). I mean who is Bollinger anyway? Some patsy for the zionist cause (David Project).

Let me be clear: I do not support the Iranian leader but this shameless and mocking attitude is the reason why Americans are seen as arrogant hegemons. He should have walked away from that podium after being insulted like that.
[/quote]
He's entitled to his opinions as much as Bollinger is. Columbia may be 2nd tier Ivy league, but Iran is president of a 2nd tier metro confernece country in the scheme of things.

[quote]
The difference is that Bollinger is nothing but a head of a University. If the US president had made similar remarks, they too would've been in poor taste, but still more acceptable than Bollinger.

In regards to the lecturing, he is throwing the same medicine that some "assistant to secretary of blah blah" does when visiting countries throughout the globe. Hypocritical, yes?
[/quote]
The assistant secretary of blah blah these days gets you further than nutjob dictator of ayatollahville. Sorry for the arrogant hegemonism. If this were 500 BC and Persia was the great superpower or if ignorance and egomania made the case for respect then I'd throw a bone. But I don't think this guy's title in and of itself doesn't require the honor you think it does. Bollinger is more educated and informed than this guy, so why does he have to keep his trap shut and let nutjob do all the ranting and hating?

[vroom]

Re: Iranian President

i don't like the fact that someone whose country's economy is in shambles has these wide ranging ideas on the ME. I have many things to say about the Iranian President that are critical, but the topic of the thread is the reception he received in the US, which was quite poor.

The Palestinian issue is an arab matter. Last I checked, Persians were not arab.

we can safely assume the finer points about the irani president or regime are very much secondary to the pressing issues of the moment.

the fact of the matter is that for the iranians the current issues concern national defence primarily. they have chosen to strenghten their economies and their defence. in comparison to pakistan they commit less to defence!

for iran to aquire nuclear power energy they will have to dodge israelli and american backed pressure. other countries who have tried going nuclear have had to go through a similar ordeal. i reference you to the israelli bombing of iraqs nuclear power station and i reference you to the planned attack of pak nuclear facilitis in 1986! so i will leave you make your own mind up about how much of an ARAB issue this is

perhaps you feel iran has set the agenda? perhaps you feel iran should support israelli occupation? more probably you are stuck politically in no-mans land suffering from half believing the news papers

iran cannot tip toe around the middle east issues for it is very much effected. so is syria

the common israelli supporters are never going to give ahmedinejad a reception of goodwill, because they are primarilly bonded by their 'badness' towards the likes of ahmedinejad and other muslims. they enjoy the suffering of the palestinians and they command that ahmedinejad tows the line they have set!

[Seminole]

Re: Iranian President

the common israelli supporters are never going to give ahmedinejad a reception of goodwill, because they are primarilly bonded by their 'badness' towards the likes of ahmedinejad and other muslims. they enjoy the suffering of the palestinians and they command that ahmedinejad tows the line they have set!

It's not either/or - Israel or ahmedinejad. And it's not ahmedinejad = all muslims. And it sure as hell isn't that anyone enjoys the sufferinf of palestinians. Wrong on all accounts. He and the Iranian government can't have nukes, period. He is a waaay to unstable for that. I guess Syria should get nukes too? Who else? SA? Lebanon? God knows their security is threatened.

[Crescent]

Re: Iranian President

The interview yesterday on CBS 60 minutes of Ahmadinejad, proved once again the arrogance of the American Media and the nature of its bias. It also showed, how logical the message was from Ahmadinejad, the President of Iran. This interview, which was heavily edited, in order to portray the ?evilness? of this President, failed to achieve the objectives of the CBS News.

The President was once again the same, smiling and answering each question with utmost calm. Despite all attempts to provoke Mr Ahmadinejad, Scott Pelley, failed to portray him as one War-mongering, bloodthirsty terrorist.

Here is an Excerpt:

PELLEY: What trait do you admire in President Bush?

AHMADINEJAD: Again, I have a very frank tone. I think that President Bush needs to correct his ways.

PELLEY: What do you admire about him?

AHMADEINEJAD: He should respect the American people.

PELLEY: Is there anything? Any trait?

AHMADINEJAD: As an American citizen, tell me what trait do you admire?

PELLEY: Well, Mr. Bush is, without question, a very religious man, for example, as you are. I wonder if there’s anything that you’ve seen in President Bush that you admire.

AHMADEINEJAD: Well, is Mr. Bush a religious man?

PELLEY: Very much so. As you are.

AHMADEINEJAD: What religion, please tell me, tells you as a follower of that religion to occupy another country and kill its people? Please tell me. Does Christianity tell its followers to do that? Judaism, for that matter? Islam, for that matter? What prophet tells you to send 160,000 troops to another country, kill men, women, and children? You just can’t wear your religion on your sleeve or just go to church. You should be truthfully religious. Religion tells us all that you should respect the property, the life of different people. Respect human rights. Love your fellow man. And once you hear that a person has been killed, you should be saddened. You shouldn’t sit in a room, a dark room, and hatch plots. And because of your plots, many thousands of people are killed. Having said that, we respect the American people. And because of our respect for the American people, we respectfully talk with President Bush. We have a respectful tone. But having said that, I don’t think that that is a good definition of religion. Religion is love for your fellow man, brotherhood, telling the truth.

The Full transcript of this interview can be found by visiting: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/21/60minutes/main3286690.shtml

AHMADINEJAD :k:

[pak-one]

Re: Iranian President

*And this moron has? He comes into our country with his lying, egonmanical and evil ways and what? He's supposed to be treated with respect? I don't think so. He is basically a sworn enemy against our country and our values. *

The same can be said (no, check that has been said) about the current US president. Lying (WMD), Egomaniacal (Domestic Politics) and Evil (Compared to Satan by a certain Venezuelan). Oh mind you, the vey same sentiments have been echoed in the US, Europe, ME etc.

Sworn enemy of the US? perhaps due to the American involvement in the Middle East. Against the values? Sure, but he is not calling for setting up the Caliphate in the US.

**
I'm sorry I don't live in your socialist utopia where all are equal. Bush, in all his ignorance, is still the leader of the free world. The president of the most powerful country in the history of the world. With that comes power and a certain amount of respect whether you earned it or not. That's the way of the world. Always has been. Haves and have nots. Wasn't any different when Persia or the Ottomans ruled the world. Dictators of insignificant desert kingdoms are just that, blow hards and super power aspirations aside.
**

Well I do appreciate the honesty. I would also appreciate it if Americans did not claim to be "even-handed and fair" in the geopolitical conflicts, because that reeks of hypocrisy. I really do applaud you for the honesty, it is better to know where we all stand.

**
He's entitled to his opinions as much as Bollinger is. Columbia may be 2nd tier Ivy league, but Iran is president of a 2nd tier metro confernece country in the scheme of things.
**

You can not make the parallel between a 2nd tier Ivy and a 2nd tier country. Like I said previously, is a head of state? YES or NO

If yes: he should be treated as such. One thing is to contest his views in a Q&A session that he has agreed to participate, and another is to insult him in the introductions. Huge difference.

If no: What was he doing at the UN? Why was security and diplomatic protocol provided? Why did the Hyatt allow him to host an Iranian event?

Lets get to the real deal: Unlike the tinpots and yes-men dictators in the ME that are pliant to US/Israeli interests, Ahmadinejad has actually shown some moxy whether it be through his statements (Palestine), influence (Iraq), and the battlefield (hezbollah) and you don't like it.

The short sightedness here is thinking that "he hates us for who we are" or "doesn't like our values," which is bunk considering the overreaching political US involvement in the ME. The lopsided support for Israeli interests. Don't get me wrong, he may not like the US values/political setup but I don't see him railing against Iceland either.

**
The assistant secretary of blah blah these days gets you further than nutjob dictator of ayatollahville. Sorry for the arrogant hegemonism. If this were 500 BC and Persia was the great superpower or if ignorance and egomania made the case for respect then I'd throw a bone. But I don't think this guy's title in and of itself doesn't require the honor you think it does. Bollinger is more educated and informed than this guy, so why does he have to keep his trap shut and let nutjob do all the ranting and hating?**

Further is a relative term. The "nutjob dictator" hold the military of his country, he can hardly be compared to civil servant diplomat who finally got that big break. Asst. secratary blow the country's views and their influence means jack. If you're not familiar with diplomatic circles, that does not mean that you can make up reality. I challenge you to present a situation where a low level diplomat actually shifted stated US foriegn policy?

Don't be sorry for the "hegemonism," enjoy it while it lasts.

Bollinger may be more educated and informed as you claim, however he played a poor role as a host/introducer. Diplomatically and culturally this was a poor show.

If Bollinger feels that the Iranian President is so evil, then why did he invite him? Please don't give me that "freedom of speech/thought" rubbish because we all know (as inferred by you): Might = Right.

[vroom]

Re: Iranian President

It's not either/or - Israel or ahmedinejad. And it's not ahmedinejad = all muslims.

it is, proven by my reference to the broader israelli strategy. lebanon, gaza, westbank, syria, egypt, algeria, saudi arabia, iraq, iran, pakistan, indonesia, malayasia, philipines jeez where does the list end!

[quote]
And it sure as hell isn't that anyone enjoys the sufferinf of palestinians. Wrong on all accounts.
[/quote]

pro israelli foreign jews are bonded by the 'badness' of their crimes - fact

[quote]
He and the Iranian government can't have nukes, period. He is a waaay to unstable for that.
[/quote]

unstable? ive not seen any evidence of that. he is committed to tackling the broader issues and threats effecting his country.

[quote]
I guess Syria should get nukes too? Who else? SA? Lebanon? God knows their security is threatened.
[/quote]

yes, or do you want some sort of semetic discount?

[Hyperactive]

Re: Iranian President

I say bravo to Bollinger! Jolly good for him.

Why does anyone owe him any civility or graciousness? He's a lying, egomaniacal lunatic. He's lucky he got to speak at all. Is he civil when he calls for the destruction of Israel? He spent a good portion of his speech labeling the US as terrorists. Is he gracious when he comes to this country to lay out his maniacal tyrannical view of the world? Is it classy to call the holocasut a myth? Why shouldn't he be called out for what he is and what he preaches?

Bollinger's comments were no more insulting than nutjob's. He's right, he is a petty and cruel dictator. The very idea he tried to lecture the US on wiretapping when that pales in comparison to what his government's civil liberty attrrocities. I am no fan of this adminstration or the civil liberties they are taking away in the name of the 'war on terror', but we don't need lecturing from that little fool.

Generalising, marginalising and then secluding is not something radical and new that Americans do...It's a trick as old as the Nazis when they used the same methods to target Jews...

[Seminole]

Re: Iranian President

And what did leaders througout history, even leaders of the great religions do with those that disagreed with their philsophy? Would Muhammed have allowed a leader of a differing pov, religion or way of life to come to Medina during his height of power amd call him a terrorist?

[pak-one]

Re: Iranian President

And what did leaders througout history, even leaders of the great religions do with those that disagreed with their philsophy? Would Muhammed have allowed a leader of a differing pov, religion or way of life to come to Medina during his height of power amd call him a terrorist?

Talk about being simple minded.

-1 There is a distinct difference between a religious leader and the contemporary Muslim/Non Muslim political leaders of the present day. It's not like OBL was invited to speak.

-2 No had claimed to be "champions of democracy," " the beacons of freedom" like the US does. I am not referring to the people, I am talking about the superlatives mentioned by every single political administration of the US since WWII. So either stop the lies of "being an open society" or be open to the criticisms.

-3 If the American ears don't want to hear him out, then why send some CBS reporter to Iran or why invite him to a University? If he is so disagreeable, then don't invite him to speak. Why put up the facade of "openness" when you can't handle it.

[pak-one]

Re: Iranian President

Generalising, marginalising and then secluding is not something radical and new that Americans do...It's a trick as old as the Nazis when they used the same methods to target Jews...

Not to get too off topic but let us not forget the support for Hitler in some American segments of power and wealth. Also, lets not forget the fact that American GIs were in a position to minimize jewish deaths in the holocaust.

Hey I am not saying Muslims or Muslim societies are that great, in fact they have a long way to go. But the cheap shots by some Americans must be answered accurately.

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Iranian President

he is only known for his stand against US foreign policy, actually the only one who is.

all his well known comments have been about the injustices or results of US foreign policy, so yes you do knock him down to knock down his cause and thus further the policy

if he is wrong then so is all the hoopla about US foreign policy

you CANNOT satisfy the pro israelli groups and remain against US foreign policy. save yourself some tip toeing or pretending

he is known for more stuff than just his anti US rhetoric. Have you bothered to look into his views about anything excepts US, maybe about how he thinks Iran should be run, about human rights, about the region.

its only your assumption that I dont like this guy because of his anti US views, and I cant answer for assumptions.

Maybe you are the one who needs to read up on this fellow, and see why iranians dont like him, do u think they like US foriegn policy? For starters, care to look into his treatment of minorities in Iran? he is part and parcel of the ayotollah regime that has been behind all kinds of discrimination and suppression for those of minority ethnic, sectarian, and religious backgrounds.

this sort of simplistic statement of "you dislike him so u must liek US foriegn policy' is amatuerish at best and far from reality.

[Seminole]

Re: Iranian President

Talk about being simple minded.

-1 There is a distinct difference between a religious leader and the contemporary Muslim/Non Muslim political leaders of the present day. It's not like OBL was invited to speak.

-2 No had claimed to be "champions of democracy," " the beacons of freedom" like the US does. I am not referring to the people, I am talking about the superlatives mentioned by every single political administration of the US since WWII. So either stop the lies of "being an open society" or be open to the criticisms.

-3 If the American ears don't want to hear him out, then why send some CBS reporter to Iran or why invite him to a University? If he is so disagreeable, then don't invite him to speak. Why put up the facade of "openness" when you can't handle it.

Hey, Us is open to criticism, but so should be this self proclaimed moral authority. I say let the moron speak, but don't complain that someone calls him out as the pig he is.

[vroom]

Re: Iranian President

@Fraudz

he is known for more stuff than just his anti US rhetoric. Have you bothered to look into his views about anything excepts US, maybe about how he thinks Iran should be run, about human rights, about the region.

you convienently forget to factor in these finer points for musharraf/pakistan?

its only your assumption that I dont like this guy because of his anti US views, and I cant answer for assumptions.

its my view that you try to find a cosy ‘middle ground’ for your views. im afraid the cosy ‘middle ground’ is discriminatory and only helps further US/israelli policy.

and ah yes…the world just like you is really bothered by the finer points of iran, its president and how they run their country. we have learnt that from before.

the fact is you are not prepared for a muslim nation to confront the issues iran with its president is doing!

cafe awaits you:)

[Mr_Fraudia]

Re: Iranian President

you convienently forget to factor in these finer points for musharraf/pakistan?

I am not interested in any comments from a two bit thug like ahmedinejad and his psychotic regime of mad mullahs.

its my view that you try to find a cosy 'middle ground' for your views. im afraid the cosy 'middle ground' is discriminatory and only helps further US/israelli policy.

sorry but your view is lame, I could not give a rodents posterior of your assesmment of my views, thanks

My view is that your anti US sentioments are so rabid that tomorrow if israel said something against US, you will declare them as some champions of humanity as well.

and ah yes...the world just like you is really bothered by the finer points of iran, its president and how they run their country. we have learnt that from before.

I dont give a damn why the rest of the world hates him or why assorted nutjobs like him. My views are my views.

the fact is you are not prepared for a muslim nation to confront the issues iran with its president is doing!

teh fact is that I expect a muslim nation to behave in a more responsible manner with its minorities and its people than iran

cafe awaits you:)

total trash awaits you :)

[vroom]

Re: Iranian President

youve copped out of this debate

[quote]

My view is that your anti US sentioments are so rabid that tomorrow if israel said something against US, you will declare them as some champions of humanity as well.
[/quote]

not true. however to pull the muslim world out of perpetual anti americanism nations such as iran need to be accepted in the main. this is not case at the moment

[pak-one]

Re: Iranian President

@Seminole

Hey, Us is open to criticism, but so should be this self proclaimed moral authority. I say let the moron speak, but don’t complain that someone calls him out as the pig he is.

I don’t see much of that openness on this thread, just see might = right, we the US are the hegemons and screw the rest.

I agree with you on letting him speak, but if you review the NY Times article below, you can clearly see the sad display. If he needs to be called out for incorrect views, it should have been done afterwards. If you have attended even one academic/diplomatic invited presentation, you know that the veneer of respectability and decorum are maintained. As for “congratulating himself and his University” Bollinger clearly shows his true “educated” colors and the reason why Columbia is in the second tier of the Ivy League.

Come on now, its not like the man didn’t give enough ammo during his tirades for his critics to call him out afterwards. My point is that if you don’t want to hear him out, don’t invite him. If you invite him, then let the man speak before being critical. I thought that this was common sense.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/25/world/middleeast/25iran.html?hp

Lee C. Bollinger, the president of Columbia, under intense attack for the invitation — one protester outside the campus auditorium where Mr. Ahmadinejad spoke passed out fliers that said, “Bollinger, too bad bin Laden is not available” — ** opened the event with a 10-minute verbal assault.
He said, “Mr. President, you exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator,” adding, “You are either brazenly provocative or astonishingly uneducated.”
The Iranian president, who was seated 10 feet away from him on the stage, wore a frozen smile. ** The anti-Ahmadinejad portion of the audience, which looked to be about 70 percent of it, cheered and chortled.
**

Mr. Bollinger praised himself and Columbia for showing they believed in freedom of speech by inviting the Iranian president, then continued his attack. He said it was “well documented” that Iran was a state sponsor of terrorism, accused Iran of fighting a proxy war against the United States in Iraq and questioned why Iran has refused “to adhere to the international standards” of disclosure for its nuclear program. “I doubt,” Mr. Bollinger concluded, “that you will have the intellectual courage to answer these questions.”** Mr. Ahmadinejad did not directly answer the questions, but he did address them. Before doing so though, he said pointedly:**“In Iran, tradition requires when you invite a person to be a speaker, we actually respect our students enough to allow them to make their own judgment, and don’t think it’s necessary before the speech is even given to come in with a series of complaints to provide vaccination to the students and faculty.”
He added, to some cheers, “Nonetheless, I shall not begin by being affected by this unfriendly treatment.”

It remains unclear whether Columbia’s leaders were able to mollify critics through their critical treatment of Mr. Ahmadinejad. But they made some headway: the American Israel Public Affairs Committee sent out an e-mail message shortly after the speech with the subject line, “A Must Read: Columbia University President’s Intro of Iran’s Ahmadinejad today.”

Inside was a transcript of Mr. Bollinger’s introduction.
**