Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

janab mohtram....this ceremony came just days before the PPP term is set to expire ....why didn't zardari do anything about this 12 months ago? we have energy crisis for so long

the fact is that every one in govt knows that this project has no legs to stand and it is designed to win votes by making PPP look like it's addressing the energy crisis. It also allows the government to thumb its nose at the United States, cuz USA is widely unpopular in Pakistan .................. despite billions of dollars in U.S. military and civilian aid.

that is what it is...i

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

The project was pending since 90's. If Zardari has done in March 2013, near election time will not benefit Zardari, but it will benefit the whole nation if completed. Why this has created so much pain you know where.

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

News http://dawncompk.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/iran-pakistan-gas-pipeline-reu-116.jpg?w=116

		 				[Pakistan risks US sanctions over Iran pipeline](http://dawn.com/2013/03/12/pakistan-risks-us-sanctions-over-iran-pipeline/)
			“If this project actually goes forward we have serious concerns that  sanctions would be triggered,” said State Department spokeswoman  Victoria Nuland.

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

It is perhaps zardari's democratic revenge on Nawaz as only time will tell. I have to give props to his politics, if only if he cared for Pakistan.

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

I think US cant kick in the sanctions as just now as they need Pakistan for atleast next couple years. For reminder, we have to look back when Pakistan were developing nukes and even knowing this fact, US presidents certified year on years for its non existence and no sanctions were placed on Pakistan until when US didnt need Pakistan and soviets were out of Afghanistan.

Going by exactly same logic, until US troops are not out of Afghanistan, US will not place any sanctions on Pakistan by the time pipeline will be finished. Waiver like China, Turkey, India will be negotiated! If not only nuclear technology access by US can only halt this project!

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

PML N and PTI says they will continue this project if they …
This is more promising , Hope to get control on Gas and electricity load shading by the end of next year .

[http://external.ak.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCbYuTcEncO6-7U&w=155&h=114&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdawncompk.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F03%2Firan-pak-gaspipeline-670.jpg

Gas pipeline — work on Pakistan phase inaugurated

“The Iran-Pakistan ‘gaslifeline’ will help eradicate terrorism, bring prosperity to the region and overcome poverty,” said](http://dawn.com/2013/03/12/gas-pipeline-work-on-pakistan-phase-inaugurated/)

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

Interesting!

"Threats of sanctions by the United States are looming, and none of us should be surprised but this at all. If you would like a quick history lesson into the hypocrisy of the American administration and flawed foreign policy, sit down and read this carefully.

Why is our so-called "ally" threatening us with sanctions?

To understand this you have to go back in history. On 15 March 1995 an inaugural memorandum of understanding between the Government of Turkmenistan and Government of Pakistan was made for a pipeline project called the TAP pipeline or the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline. This project was promoted by the U.S. company Unocal, in conjunction with the Saudi oil company Delta. On 21 October 1995, these two companies signed a separate agreement with Turkmenistan's President Saparmurat Niyazov and by August 1996, the Central Asia Gas Pipeline (or CentGas) consortium for construction of a pipeline, led by Unocal, was formed. On 27 October 1997, CentGas was incorporated in formal signing ceremonies in Ashgabat, Turkmenistan, by several international oil companies along with the Government of Turkmenistan.

While Turkmenistan was already onboard with the pipeline, in order to reach Pakistan, they would need a cooperative Taliban government in Afghanistan. Let's not forget the Taliban (according to the United States) were savages and beasts. According to a 17 December 1997 article in The Telegraph, headlined, “Oil barons court Taliban in Texas,” the Taliban was about to sign a $2 billion contract with an American oil company to build a pipeline across the war-torn country. The "Islamic warriors" appear to have been persuaded to close the deal, not through delicate negotiation but by old-fashioned Texan hospitality. Dressed in traditional salwar khameez, Afghan waistcoats and loose, black turbans, the high-ranking delegation was given VIP treatment during the four-day stay while in Texas. “They stayed in a five-star hotel and were chauffeured in a company minibus.” The Taliban representatives “…were amazed by the luxurious homes of Texan oil barons. Invited to dinner at the palatial home of Martin Miller, a vice-president of Unocal, they marvelled at his swimming pool, views of the golf course and six bathrooms.” Mr. Miller, said he hoped that Unocal had clinched the deal. The Telegraph reported that Unocal had promised to start building the pipeline and paying the Taliban immediately, with the added inducements and a donation of $500,000 to the University of Nebraska for courses in Afghanistan to train 400 teachers, electricians, carpenters and pipefitters.

The Telegraph also reported, “The US government, which in the past has branded the Taliban’s policies against women and children “despicable”, appears anxious to please the fundamentalists to clinch the lucrative pipeline contract.” In a paper prepared by Neamatollah Nojumi, at the Tufts University Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Nojumi wrote in August 1997 that Madeline Albright sat in a “full-dress CIA briefing” on the Caspian region. CIA agents then accompanied “some well-trained petroleum engineers” to the region. Albright concluded that shaping the region’s policies was “one of the most exciting things that we can do.”

This pipeline was also exciting to the Bush Administration. According to the authors of Bin Laden, the Hidden Truth, one of the FBI’s leading counter terrorism agents, John O’Neill, resigned in mid 2001 in protest over the Bush Administration’s alleged obstruction of his investigation into bin Laden. (A similar complaint was filed on behalf of another unidentified FBI Agent by the conservative Judicial Watch public interest group.) Supposedly the Bush Administration had been meeting since January 2001 with the Taliban, and was also reluctant to offend Saudi Arabians who O’Neill had linked to bin Laden. Mr. O’Neill, after leaving the FBI, was posted as the security director at the World Trade Center, where he was killed in the 911 attacks just weeks after taking the position.

As America’s New War now begins focusing on other “rogue nations,” UNOCAL’s stars have magically aligned. About two months after the Houston parties, UNOCAL executive John Maresca addressed the House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific and urged support for establishment of an investor-friendly climate in Afghanistan, “… we have made it clear that construction of our proposed pipeline cannot begin until a recognized government is in place that has the confidence of governments, lenders and our company.” Meaning that UNOCAL’s ability to construct the Afghan pipeline was a cause worthy of U.S. taxpayer dollars.

Maresca’s prayers have been answered with the Taliban’s replacement. As reported in Le Monde, the new Afghan government’s head, Hamid Karzai, formerly served as a UNOCAL consultant. Only nine days after Karzai’s ascension, President Bush nominated another UNOCAL consultant and former Taliban defender, Zalmay Khalilzad, as his special envoy to Afghanistan.

Now you know why our "ally" wants to put sanctions on us. They've lost big bucks on there investment and they want some of it back. And they call us the terrorists."

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

USA sanctions are absolutely nonsense and brutal..we shd what is best for us.

but my comments were in relation to financing of this project..that is where i think PPP is just doing politics...

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

^ wrong thread

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

how is this the wrong thread for it?

Btw, how will things drastically improve if the price of gas is pegged to 70-80% of the price of crude? I think that Pakistanis are again screwed in the end.

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

Dr Farrukh Saleem seems high on hashish or doing Lafafa journalism with lafafa full of American dollars or Saudi Rials :slight_smile:

I believe project is quite feasible and is good for Pakistan in every respect. Actually, Pakistan would benefit immensely and whatever we say about present Zardari government, what they did by finalizing the project is great work.

Let see financing, needed technological expertise, availability of Gas, security, benefits to Pakistan, and sanctions … all the issues what the article or any critic might raises.

Financing: Iran is under sanction, so they cannot use dollar to pay for imports, even though it is estimated that they have over 80 billion dollars in hard foreign exchange currencies and over 50 billion dollars of Gold as reserve. So, to say that Iran is short of money is completely absurd statement.

Problem that Iran faces when paying for import is nothing to do with them short of money but sanction. Sanction means, no bank that have businesses in western countries and especially USA can take part in transaction where Iran is involved, as if they would do so, than banks would face threat of sanction on them (they would not be able to do business in these countries and their assets can get frozen too). Thus, what Farrukh Saleem mentioned, it is nothing to do with Iran short of money (what Farrukh Saleem likes readers to believe) but it is effects of sanction.

Thus, payment for export and import to Iran can be problem. But then many countries who are trading with Iran are paying Iran in local currencies that Iran uses to buy gold and transfer that gold to Dubai, change that into hard currencies and then transfer that to Iran … sometime Iran even transfer gold to Iran. Some countries are paying Iran in gold (like India). Until last year Turkish gold was ending up in Iran in huge quantity. That is the reason it is estimated that Iran could have over 900 tons of gold as reserve (most likely, more than that). We should know that 900 tons of gold is worth over $46 billion.

Anyhow, Farrukh raised question on financing just to make his case strong, even though present IP gas project would need no foreign hard currency or foreign expertise, thus there is no need to get worried about financing, as most work would be done locally using either Iranian or Pakistani currency.

Technology expertise: Farrukh Saleem made most stupid statement about problem in available technological expertise. He should have known that Iran has already laid down most of pipeline in Iran from Paras gas field (in Persian Gulf) to border of Pakistan.

Actually, even though the gas is under water, it is Iran that not only developed that gas field but has enough expertise to extract gas from there, as (from what I know) Iran is already extracting gas from Paras gas field, moving that gas to mainland Iran, using that gas to generate electricity, and even converting that gas to liquid gas.

That means, Iran have the technology to lay pipeline and provide gas to Pakistan, thus there would be no need to take any technological help from western countries, especially when it is agreed that Iranian company would lay pipeline in Pakistan too … and obviously, supplying gas would be Iranian problem anyhow, that they are capable of handling.

Availability of Gas: Paras gas field is not only proven gas field, but is the largest proven gas field in the world that Qatar and Iran shares. Actually, Iran has second largest proven gas reserves in the world after Russia. So, to doubt about Iran capability to provide gas to Pakistan, that is one of the most stupid doubt one can make what Farrukh Saleem made.

Security: Pakistan is getting gas from Sui since long time under all threat and with such highly desirable gas for the country from Iran, Pakistan can easily secure the pipeline. I believe, few hundred rangers looking after the pipeline would easily secure the pipeline from any mishaps.

Benefit … or What Pakistan could gain: Even though gas Pakistan is getting is not cheap (could have been cheaper), still it would be at 78 percent of crude oil price when one converts the energy value that can be extracted from gas compare to crude oil. Pakistan intends to replace part of crude oil that Pakistan imports with Iranian gas to produce electricity.

Pakistan imports around $17 billion worth crude oil a year (and the amount is rising). If Pakistan would manage to replace even half of crude oil Pakistan imports with Iranian gas (or around 8 billion dollar worth of crude oil), then Pakistan would save approximately $1.76 billion yearly (or 22 percent of crude oil value Pakistan would replace). This saving would be on top of transport cost and insurance that occurs and Pakistan pays when Pakistan imports crude oil, as there would be no transportation and insurance cost for gas other than whatever Pakistan would spend in maintenance of pipeline and security.

On top of that, it is expected that Pakistan would pay Iran in local currency or may export goods that Iran could not purchase and pay in open market using hard currency due to sanction, as Iran could not use foreign banks or foreign currencies they have to pay for their imports … so it is most likely that Iran would use Pakistani rupee (Payment they would receive for gas) to import Pakistani goods.

[Note: Due to sanction on Iran, Pakistan would not be able to pay them dollars and thus only option would be gold or rupees. Since Pakistan have no capability to pay in gold, it is most likely that Pakistan would pay Iran in rupees or goods. Iran could not use Pakistani rupees to purchase goods from other countries, so they would use that rupees to invest in Pakistan or purchase Pakistani goods. That means, in financial terms, it would be win-win situation for both Iran and Pakistan. Iran exports gas and Pakistan exports their goods or receive investment]

Sanction: That is major problem. But if Pakistan would play their cards right than I do not think this should be problem. Reason is, China, India, Russia, Turkey and many other countries are importing huge quantity of oil, gas and other goods from Iran … so why not Pakistan? USA promise of alternative energy supply to Pakistan did not materialised even after 19 of years and there is no hope that it would materialise in near future, while Pakistan is going from bad to worse situation due to shortage of energy supply at reasonable cost. (Talk on Pakistan-Iran gas project started in 1994, and since then USA is promising Pakistan to not go ahead with this project, as they would do something to provide alternative energy, but have done nothing)

So, I believe one should think logically, be realistic, ignore critics like Farrukh Saleem writing absurd, think about Pakistan and benefits that Pakistan could get from the project, give credit to those for whom credit is due, and hope for the best.

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

I think that most likely, it would be a barter arrangement like how iran recently wanted wheat from Pakistan recently. Iran hasn't invested in Pakistan much compared to saudia, even if saudis fund the madarsas, though China takes the cake in investing in infrastructure projects and staying out of pakistani politics, something that the americans should learn from but can't since there are no rules as far as american exceptionalism is concerned.

The Shah of Iran was pro-Pak because of being a fellow american ally and a friend since iran had issues with UAE back then as well. Today's Iran is suspect because of the sectarian nature of the mullah in chief that runs the country. I haven't checked the validity of his argument, but Mubashir Luqman mentioned that iran has 7-8 consulate and embassies in Pakistan where they promote iranian shiite revolution in Pakistan and we can't touch it because of diplomatic immunity. He compared it to how Iran isn't even allowing an embassy right now for Pakistan.

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

This thread is about the pipeline but in the post above, there is actually more about the 'scary' Iranians.

  • Iran wanting Shiite revolution in Pakistan is laughable, to say the least. That is preposterous thinking.
  • if you haven't checked the validity of that absurd comment quoted through luqman, then you should not have blurted it out here. Why are you spreading rumors? What you are doing is equivalent to lying.
  • about Iran investing less than Saudis ... Again it just shows your total bias. Here are just a few examples of what Iranians face in Pakistan. Iranian offices have been attacked in Pakistan, one of its diplomats was actually murdered in multan, and Iranian engineers were killed when they we working on making some overhead bridges in Karachi. and then you complain why they don't invest in Pakistan?

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

A little late in the day, but progress of any kind at any rate should be appreciated.

Nice move, Mr. President. You get to let the "guarantors" know that you still have a few cards left to play in case they bet on another horse, while by doing this at this hour you get to stick the coming Govt. with the backlash of this in terms of sanctions in case PPP doesn't come to power again. Touche!

I sincerely hope that this is for more than just political mileage on both the national and international level. Pakistan needs this energy ASAP to shorten the current gap.

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

whatever makes you happy....but just few facts....back in Nov 2012, Iran's foreign reserves were anywhere between $70-80bn, but with $US25-30bn of that frozen in overseas accounts. Situation is so bad that Iranian accounts in Russia and China worth up to $US14bn have also been frozen along with dozens of others across Europe. The Chinese government has seized Iranian deposits in Shanghai, Macau and Hong Kong as security against Iranian imports of Chinese goods and to negotiate a discount in the price of oil.

So all Iran had back in Nov 2012 was close to $50-55B accessibl .... it must be worst now that 5 more months have passed...

but what is the use of foreign reserves? it is essential to pay for imports and Iran spent $US70bn on foreign imports in the first half of 2012 but has just over half that available for the second half....yes iran is cutting down on import drastically but it still need to import some stuff....

 Now lets look at next 12 months...Iran’s fiscal  year begins on March 21...there are even more stricter sanctions imposed on iran in feb 2013...not  to mention inflation rose by 27.5% in 2012 (economists think it  was  45%)..currency devalued by 60%...and sales of Iranian crude are down  about 55 percent compared with last year ...Foreign reserves and sovereign gold at Iran’s central bank are used to  bridge the gap in the country’s budget deficit, which has hit $45bn in  the fiscal year 2012/2013, according to Gholamreza Mesbahi Moghadam, the  head of the Iranian parliament’s Economic Commission. Moghadam is in doubt if Iran’s reserves and gold will be enough to  cover its budget deficit and fix the financial turmoil caused by the  economic sanctions. 

take all these factors into account and iran is facing serious danger of balance of payment deficit by Mar 2014...and you think they will lend billion dollar or so to pakistan? last priority for them as of now...

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

USA sanctions warning is absolutely nonsense and brutal..we shd do what is best for us.

but my comments were in relation to financing of this project..that is where i think PPP is just doing politics...zardari ceremony came just days before the PPP term is set to expire ....why didn't zardari do anything about this 12 months ago? we have energy crisis for so long

the fact is that every one in govt knows that this project has no legs to stand and it is designed to win votes by making PPP look like it's addressing the energy crisis. It also allows the government to thumb its nose at the United States, cuz USA is widely unpopular in Pakistan .................. despite billions of dollars in U.S. military and civilian aid.

that is what it is...

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

I am of the same thought process. We can hope though...

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

But it is going forward
http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s480x480/487638_424670700957091_1127236682_n.jpg

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

Political stunt for elections, nothing much. It would be up to the next government to find non-existent funds to finance the project. Even NBP has distanced itself and declared it has nothing to do with the project. Funny how 'janoobi punjab soba', gas pipeline, president waking up to Karachi, etc. were floated only weeks before the government goes and doesn't expect to return.

Re: Iran Pakistan Gas pipeline inaugurated

I hope they extend this pipeline to India