I think we are diverging from the thread topic with this Kashmir sidetrack. But here it goes anyway.
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*Originally posted by ravage: *
No, you need to go beyond South Asia Tribune. A lot of the Kashmiri movement is organic and not necessarily organized under groups that issue press releases. Pakistanis do physically support the cause, and most of us have at some point in our lives come across people who went across the LOC and participated in a legitimate and honrorable battle that focused on Indian troops. And a lot of them abhor the inexplicable innocent killings as much as you and I.
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If a LOT of these people abhor innocents being killed in their name then why don't we hear condemnations of the groups that do these acts? I haven't come across any so far. All I have seen is, inane BS like:
- Islam is a religion of peace. Those who did this are not true Muslims
or
- This is a RAW hatched conspiracy to "malign" the "indigenous freedom struggle."
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Given that Muslim groups in Kashmir are nebulous with changing boundaries and changing leaders, the culpability of those funding something that goes wrong is much less than those Indian tax payers who fund the indian army in Kashmir.
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Nope. Most of the jihadi groups are sectarian. The Islamic brotherhood/Jamaat based fund collectors feed the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen or Al Badr. The Deobandis give to Harkat-ul-Mujahideen and Jaish-e-Mohammed and their murderous affiliates. The Ahl-e-Hadith as I said give to LeT and their related offshoots. If you hang around people, you get to know soon enough where your money goes. In Pakistan, all these groups make clear who they are collecting funds for. Same goes for overseas collectors. So this BS of "I don't know who I'm giving to is just a poor excuse."
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All the rape and murder that the Indian forces commit in Kashmir, is all of that something the Indian on the street should be responsible for. Actually yes, because state authorised terror is a much more serious thing because theres a deliberative thought process firm government officials over there as opposed to some idiot youth who snapped and killed some hindus.
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Two wrong assumptions. First about the Indian forces. Have there been instances where the Indian troops committed atrocities? Is it true that many times the guys doing the vile acts got away without punishment? Absolutely. I'm not going to deny that. But even HRW and AI have not been able to find anything to say that this has been approved as a policy tool by the Indian government. All armies in this world have broken down when faced with an insurgency. Just look at the behavior of your own army in the tribal areas with indiscriminate bombing, collective punishment, demolishing of houses, extrajudicial killings of innocent tribals passed off as "terrorists," as well as the US army in Iraq. There are people on this forum supporting a "tough crackdown" in Balochistan and Waziristan. Armies are instruments of state. Sometimes they take brutal action.
Secondly, about the jihadis. Their killings are not some "youth snapping" but very well organized. There were a group of Bakerwals up in the hills near Rajouri. Since their village lay in a popular infiltration route for the jihadis, they were often sought by them to act as guides and porters. But they revealed this to a local reporter a few months ago. After the report came out, the jihadis launched an ambush on that village and killed every man, woman and child. There are many other such cases, other than the daily throat slittings, mines in the market and grenades thrown into crowds. Every one of these acts are justified in the name of jihad. There are publications that say that taking women as war booty is allowed under Islam.
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Try looking at HRW/amnesty for Indian army's record in Kashmir. How do you explain your support for it then?
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Even the much maligned Indian army has jailed or executed people for raping or murdering innocents. How many jihadi groups do that for their supposedly errant comrades. Do they even admit that they have such people within their midst? Nope. They just justify it in the name of Islam. That is the difference.