Intergration!!

Aslaam ali kum

can any of u relate to this in your every day life.

The Dangers of Integration

Khabbab (ra) relates in a hadith in Sahih Bukhari:

"We complained to the Prophet of the increasing persecution inflicted upon us by the disbelievers of Mecca. He was reclining in the shade of the Ka’aba, having made a pillow of his cloak. We submitted: ‘Why do you not supplicate for help for us? Why do you not pray for us?’

The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) answered:

‘From among those who have gone before you a man would be caught and held in a pit dug for him in the earth and he would then be sawn in two with a saw placed over his head, or his flesh would be combed away from his bones with iron combs but none of this would wean him away from his faith.’"

Life as a Muslim in the West

Living in Britain as Muslims, practising or non-practising, has naturally left us vulnerable to the ‘hammer’ that is the capitalist society.

A Muslim under the pseudonym Aisha Khan describes these pressures. Writing in the editorial section of the Guardian newspaper she describes what she felt when she saw another Muslim in Hijab:

"I envy her because I am too weak to wear the veil, too scared that doors will close and that opinions will be formed long before friendships are. Islam doesn’t oppress me; fear does. I live a half-life, a double-life: not quite a Muslim and not quite a Westerner. My parents raised me as a Muslim. They gave me everything I wanted but I coveted the freedom enjoyed by non-Muslim friends…

I have left university and now feel better equipped to cope with irreconcilable differences of being British and Muslim. You can be born and raised in this country, benefit from its education and live freely and comfortably thanks to the solid British economy. But you can also be oppressed. Stay silent when your religion is being lambasted in the press. Look on helplessly when Muslims are being persecuted in their homeland and then watch them being punished by the British Asylum system. Stuff your veil into your handbag because you’ll never get that job if you cover your head. Sacrifice prayer times and fasting to keep up with the crowd and stay in with the boss."

The Vendetta that is Integration

These pressures have taken an altogether sinister twist post September the 11th, becoming a prominent aspect of Western policy towards Muslims. The policy of ‘integration’ is to amalgamate or mix an ethnic or religious group with an existing community. Specifically in relation to the Muslims it means to pressurise them to reject certain key values and concepts of Islam and adopt some key values and concepts of Western capitalism.

Spearheaded by Western academics, politicians and the media, an attack has been targeted at Muslims who inhabit these countries, labelling them in no uncertain terms as the ‘enemy within’.

Melanie Philips, a UK Daily Mail Columnist writing in the Spectator magazine puts it bluntly when she says:

"Since most of the mass immigration now convulsing Europe is composed of Muslims, it is therefore hardly surprising that anti-immigrant feeling is largely anti-Muslim feeling. The sheer weight of numbers, plus the refusal to assimilate to western values, makes this an unprecedented crisis for western liberalism. The crisis is forcing it to confront the fundamental questions of what constitutes a country, national identity and the very nature of a liberal society.

But the problem is that it [Islam] does not just oppose libertinism. Having never had a ‘reformation’, which would have forced it to make an accommodation with modernity, it is fundamentally intolerant and illiberal. As a result, it directly conflicts with western values in areas such as the treatment of women, freedom of speech, the separation of private and public values, and tolerance of homosexuality. These are all liberal fundamentals and are not negotiable."

The efforts to integrate have become more direct and sinister post September 11th. Up until very recently Muslims have felt secure in the roles they occupy in the West. In some ways immune against the vehement hatred to Islam demonstrated by the policies of these nations against the ‘Islamic World’. Now a question has been carefully tabled to the Muslims. This is best described by remarks made by the UK Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs, Peter Hain:

“Islam is now a much bigger factor than racial tension and we are going to need to resolve that together, not by targeting Muslims as Fortuyn was doing, but sending a clear message that British Muslims are welcome here and enrich our culture, but also that they must be part of our culture. Muslim immigrants can be very isolationist in their own behaviour and their own customs. That in the end is going to create real difficulties and is likely to be ripe for exploitation by extremists, whether it is followers of Osama bin Laden on the one hand, or racists on the other. It just takes two to integrate, and we need to work with the Muslim community… Equally we have got the situation where Muslims are being targeted by Nazi groups like the British National Party and racists. So we have to work together to make sure that we target both the racists themselves and the causes of racism.”

This represents an ultimatum of sorts to the Muslim community in Britain, either you integrate or we will view you like the ‘Al Qaida’ terrorists and you will be left alone to be victimised by the BNP.

By integrate he means to divert from the Islamic political agenda or face the consequences. To replace the drive to impact society that Islam inspires with the lethargic, materialistic outlook on life. The incentives are state funded schools, prayer breaks, halal meat in schools and hospitals. The consequences of failure to integrate are to be stereotyped in the same category as the ‘Al-Qaida’ network and be made vulnerable to the far right. The threat of the latter apparent by the gains of the BNP on the council in Burnley, a microcosm of a wider trend in Europe. One in three Muslims in the UK said they or a family member had suffered personal abuse since September 11th, a poll by ICM and the Guardian found this month. In November 2001, the Daily Telegraph reported that a group of Sikhs and Hindus from Southall, London, had begun talks with the British National Party, to counter the threat they said Muslims were posing to their society.

A Pan-European phenomena

Anti-Islamic sentiment is on the march in Europe. In France 6 million people voted for Jean-Marie Le Pen during the French presidential elections. Le Pen when asked on his opinions regarding the Khimar and Jilbab, which protects the modesty of the believing women, said, “it is good, it protects us from the ugly women.”

Pim Fortuyn, the assassinated Dutch populist leader, denounced Islam as a “backward culture.” Fortuyn’s party won 20 seats in the Dutch general election. His party advocates a ban to all Muslim immigration into the Netherlands, points which strike a cord with David Blunkett, the British Home Secretary who proposes citizenship training and tests.

Over the Alps, the Italian Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, famously proclaimed the superiority of Western over Islamic civilisation. His government includes the Northern League leader, Umberto Bossi, who has protested about the use of public land for mosques for the “Muslim invaders”. In Germany, the main challenge to Gerhard Schroder in September’s elections will come from the Christian Social Union, which has insisted that German Muslims must accept the “Christian norms of Germany”.

A poster declaring “By the time you retire, Denmark will be a majority-Muslim nation” helped the Danish People’s party leader Pia Kjaersgaard win a place in the ruling rightist coalition last November. Shortly after she declared a ‘holy war’ on Islam.

In Belgium, the Vlaams Blok has become the largest party in several cities by campaigning to reduce the number of mosques and institutionalising discrimination against Islam.

Austrians swept Jorg Haider’s Freedom party into power in 1999. The party had campaigned on an anti-Muslim platform, drafting a political catchall for its hate politics, Uberfremdung (‘foreigner-swamping’) into the electoral vocabulary.

Why?

Second and third generation Muslims in the West are in the midst of a revival, re-examining their roots, rediscovering their belief prompted by questions that cannot be answered in advanced secular society. They are frustrated about the situation the Ummah finds herself in, angry towards the West for creating and maintaining these problems. A recent survey found out that Muslims in the UK overwhelmingly oppose the ‘war on terror’ and believe it to be a war against Islam. Some 69% of Muslims feel excluded from British life according to the same June poll by ICM and the Guardian.

Enjoining Good and Forbidding Evil

To enjoin the good and forbid the evil is an obligation on Muslims. This is what distinguishes the Muslim Ummah as a whole.

Allah (Subhanahu Wa Ta’aala) says,

ßõäúÊõãú ÎóíúÑó ÃõãøóÉò ÃõÎúÑöÌóÊú áöáäøóÇÓö ÊóÃúãõÑõæäó ÈöÇáúãóÚúÑõæÝö æóÊóäúåóæúäó Úóäö ÇáúãõäúßóÑö

“You are the best Ummah brought unto makind, you enjoin Al-Maroof and forbid Al-Munkar” [TMQ Al-Imran: 110].

æóÇáúãõÄúãöäõæäó æóÇáúãõÄúãöäóÇÊõ ÈóÚúÖõåõãú ÃóæúáöíóÇÁõ ÈóÚúÖò íóÃúãõÑõæäó ÈöÇáúãóÚúÑõæÝö æóíóäúåóæúäó Úóäö ÇáúãõäúßóÑö

“The believers, both men and women, they are protecting friends one to another; they command what is right and forbid what is wrong.” [TMQ At-Taubah: 71].

This means we, the Muslims, observe that which is around us from a specific viewpoint. This is not simply to provide judgement alone. This is from the specific perspective of producing change. It is this understanding that will naturally finds its form in the way of a state, our own state – The Khilafah. By definition therefore, Muslims cannot isolate themselves; they have to interact with the society around them. Why is there an increasing trend in reversion to Islam across Europe, if Muslims isolate themselves, are absent in the public arena and do not interface with those around them.

The real agenda behind wanting to integrate Muslims is so that they give up the values of Islam and adopt a secular outlook. This destroys in the process concepts related to Khilafah, Jihad and Ummah.

We cannot therefore integrate. We should take steps to protect against it; examining the curricula of the schools we send our children to, being wary of promises made by politicians and councillors and careful of branding those involved with the work to foster the affairs of the Ummah as the ‘fringe element’.

The Islamic understanding of commanding Maroof and forbidding Munkar does not allow isolation. Following the Ahkam of Islam will naturally bring Muslims into contact with wider society, in an altruistic manner, in a manner that is unselfish and diplomatic. A Muslim by doing this will allow Islam to answer questions that Capitalism has left unanswered.

We should at all times ensure that our judgements regarding the welfare of our families, our children, our livelihoods, our studies, our worship, the situation that afflicts the Ummah emanates from the Aqeeda of Islam. As part of an Ummah that resides in the West we must not deviate from this understanding, since that is where our demise lies. Not in the threats from, Hain, Fortyn, Blunkett, Jean-Marie Le Penn or the like.

Huthayfah ibn al-Yaman said that the Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said

æÇáÐí äÝÓí ÈíÏå áÊÃãÑä ÈÇáãÚÑæÝ æáÊäåæä Úä ÇáãäßÑ Ãæ áíæÔßä Çááå Ãä íÈÚË Úáíßã ÚÐÇÈÇð ãä ÚäÏå Ëã ÊÏÚæäå ÝáÇ íÓÊÌÇÈ áßã

"By the one whose hands is my soul, you have to command the good and forbid the evil or Allah will send punishment upon you then you will ask Him for help and He will not answer you

how can u call for intergration affter all
that.if u still think intergration is a good
then please explain


e.i

[This message has been edited by clubber lang (edited August 07, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by clubber lang (edited August 07, 2002).]

There are 80 members of OIC. No one has to live in UK, America or the evil west if they don't want to. They do not have to compromise their madhab and appease the kaffirs. They can always choose to live in one of the muslim countries.

However, if you choose to live in someone else's house it is only proper to try to be a courteous guest.

Do you think that the rights accorded to the non-muslims in the the muslim countries should be applied by the western host countries to their muslim citizens? Personally, I believe that if UK citizens had any sense it would atleast revoke the immigrant status of all first generation muslims and try to send them back to their home countries. Let Pakistan deal with MQM leader, and let Egypt deal with its own Imams, and let the Sauds deal with their own dissidents. No more asylum please. That is where you Khalifa shouters are going to get the UK muslims. Just keep on the meaningless path.

[This message has been edited by OldLahori (edited August 07, 2002).]

CL,i have to agree with old lahore,but i would also like to point out that as a British citizen,your post angers me.
Firstly the BNP nazis,as you call them are such an miniscule part of our society as to be meaningless,you could not even call them a minority,the only thing that gives them strenght is the likes of yourself talking about them so much,believe me they would never be allowed to become anything more than a annoyance.
I have been lucky enough to have grown up travelling the world and have lived in many cultures,but i always felt that it was my duty to live by there customs ie "when in rome,do as the romans do"apart from anything elses,you are in another persons homeland,it is no different than being in their home.
No matter what you want to think of Britain,it doesn`t stop thousands of people trying to move to this tiny island every day,even risking their lives to do it.I do not see the same thing in the opposite direction,do you?

Braveheart

but respect for other cultures should be there whether you follow it or not. customs, traditions, faith, socio-economic background all have an impact on one person;s sense of culture.

sub cultures exist and should be allowed to flourish and thrive, as long as the people can interact and communicate whats the issue. why should everyone be xerox copies of one another. why does anyone have an issue with what one wears or does not wear?

whats next brit expats in the middle east would have to submit to circumcisions to be a part of the society..i.e. to do as romans do.

for a cosmopolitan society, lets not think of it in terms of a melting pot but a salad, each item adding its own colour and flavour to the mix..tomatoes wont be carrots and radishes wont be olives..I mean you do have the option of putting it in a blender like juiceman jack but its not just as interesting anymore.

I dont like religion based schools Christian Muslim or Jewish and think they should all be closed down.
And I dont really see why someone would want to live a segregated life.
But I dont want to 'deport" Muslims because although I think Islam is a false and harmful religion.
I think its better that they stay in the UK because in the UK they can live a free life which they cant in any islamic country

[quote]
Originally posted by Fraudz:
**Braveheart

but respect for other cultures should be there whether you follow it or not. customs, traditions, faith, socio-economic background all have an impact on one person;s sense of culture.

sub cultures exist and should be allowed to flourish and thrive, as long as the people can interact and communicate whats the issue. why should everyone be xerox copies of one another. why does anyone have an issue with what one wears or does not wear?

whats next brit expats in the middle east would have to submit to circumcisions to be a part of the society..i.e. to do as romans do.

for a cosmopolitan society, lets not think of it in terms of a melting pot but a salad, each item adding its own colour and flavour to the mix..tomatoes wont be carrots and radishes wont be olives..I mean you do have the option of putting it in a blender like juiceman jack but its not just as interesting anymore.**
[/quote]

That is entirely true Mr.F,however i think you took my post far too literally.
What i am trying to put forward is a respect for the values and culture of whatever country in the world YOU choose to live in and make your home.If i did not agree with the culture or the laws or way of life of a particular country,i wouldn`t go and live there,simple.

Bravheart but what culture are you talking about, even in Britain, lets forget the differences between scots and welsh and english..even within the english there are different subcultures, all of which dont see eye to eye with others.

fact is there are aspects of a culture people like and there are aspects people dont like, why force them to adopt against their will. Cultures evolve with time, due to external influences and internal changes. Incidentally, back in London my next door neighbour who has been there since we were kids and is kinda like a grandmotherly character, she hates the hooligans, the yobs, the whole carjacking, drinking and getting pissed, pub fights, skimpy clothes culture..and she is as english as one can be. I doubt people will have issues with her.

There are people who are conservative, those that are liberal. You can follow one, or you can march to the beat of your drum, now unless I am breaking the law, why is it anyone's business but my own. Its a problem if my mother wants to wear her traditional dress, but punks are okay.

I am the first person who will say that many Pakistanis inthe UK have to be a part of the mainstream, there are families that i know who do not have a single non Pakistani or Indian friend. At the same time, I also feel that a lot of this "assimilate" rhetoric is undue and blanket prejudice.

No im sorry you are still missing the point,i am talking about a respect for the place you live,in no way am i talking about anyone forcing anyone else to do anything.

You question which culture,regarding the different countries that make up the United Kingdom,my anwer to that is "Which of those countries are you living in?"

However i feel you still miss my point,so i will make it as easy as possible.

If a person chooses to live in a country,other than that which is their homeland,then find that they dont like it,then leave,dont bitch!

This thread shoud be in the religon

Braveheart

what exactly do you mean by "respecting" the place? if you clairify that maybe I can respond better.

Now as far as someone living in anothe rcountry...what defines a homeland, where you are now, where you were born, where your father was born. As far as bitchin goes..unsatisfaction with something and the ability to voice it, and ability to do something about it is what got us American indpendence, the Magna Carta, the french revolution, liberation of Libya, Indpeendence of Pakistan and India etc etc.

What about a person who was born in a country, and has complains, should we deport him then?

we would find the shadow cabinet and the left side of the house of commons empty every year then.

One point here. I've mentioned this before that the wrong people end up getting targeted when it comes to apportioning blame for lack of integration. The first generation of immigrants are generally very hard-working, and well behaved. The problems are often the next generation a lot of whom take on the yob culture all too readily.

Those involved in the Bradford riots weren't immigrants, most of them had been born and brought up here. So I thought it was a bit of a red herring when Blunkett started targeting immigrants as needing to integrate better.

And yeah, respect goes both ways. Most people aren't semtex carrying suicide bombers so it shouldn't be too hard.

I think the discussion about integration is an interesting one.
To say that one should obey the cultures in the land you are living is fine until it starts to contradict the way of life that a Muslim lives. So it is fine to pay your taxes as you are a citizen of the country but to do something that contradicts Islam to integrate is where the problem comes in like the woman who says she can't wear hijab out of fear.
Integration is dangerous as Muslims are going further away from Islam. There is nothing wrong with wearing their clothes or eating their food as long as it is in the confines of Islam, but when one start to adopt their norms and values then that is where the problems set in.
The problem is in even in our own lands Muslims are trying to adopt the lifestyle of the British and Americans who are seen as succesful especially among the liberal circles where the Pakistani gorws up wanting to be British etc. Aitchison for example will fine you for speaking urdu. Women have adopted the Western dress sense. etc.
Muslims are being taken away from Islam and being encouraged to take up Kufr. Muslims are told that Taleban was Islam and that is how weak Islam is and look how succesful the West is. Muslims are increasingly integrating with the West and adopting Kufr culture and values and this is dangerous for the Muslims.

Are you living in a foriegn country,or are you living in Islam?
Would i be granted the right to speak my mind about a muslim country,if i disagree with certain things there,such as going against muslim culture in any way?

Braveheart

forcing someone to follow something, as long as it is not a law does not make sense.

If you feel that you will not be able to question the culture of a "muslim" country while you are there, it is partially true, depends on which country..and even then if there are issues, they should be brought up.

I dont follow all british culture and nroms, but during my stay in Pakistan I did nto follow all the norms there.

Let people adapt and adopt if they choose, let them question and protest if they so choose. whats the big deal?