Interfaith Dialogue (Scriptures) - Islam and Christianity

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This thread is a continuation of the original “Interfaith Dialogue - Islam and Christianity”.

What we want discuss here is the scriptures of Islam and Christianity. Find any commonalities and differences.

To start off I’ll probably make the simple statement that Quran is the revealed scripture that muslims follow and Bible is the scripture followed by Christians. Muslims believe Quran is the untainted word of God meaning it has been preserved in the form it was originally revealed (this means that there have been no addition or deletion of verses from the Quran and it exists in its original language of revelation i.e. Arabic). I do not consider punctuations added to preserve the dialect of Quran as addition or deletion to it. As muslims we acknowledge that Bible is the revealed scripture of Christianity however we do not believe it is the gospel that Jesus PBUH preached and muslims do not assign it a divine status meaning it is not the untainted word of God (it does not exist in its original Armaic language and has been revised several times).

As always my request to keep it clean. Everyone is welcome to particpate, just don’t overwhelm the particpants.

I am sure this thread will become a potent one, so I would like to ask the participants to especially respect each others beliefs here and not to dishonor that which is sacred to either party.

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The Qur’an being in such high esteem and inportance for Islam will make it slightly difficult for me to fully debate this topic. I have too much respect for various Guppies and will endeavor to not be blasphemous. If I do transgress, it will be done due to a lack of knowledge or sensitivity on my part, I now already ask for forgiveness and understanding.

Because of the importance, and possible divergent questions/answers, anyone should feel themselves free to ask questions or give sound answers to questions they consider they have knowledge off. Just don’t digress into too many lines, otherwise rather open thread dedicated to that line of reasoning.

The Christians hold the Bible (Old and New Testaments) as their scriptures defining the religion and theological doctrines. Various other manuscripts and authors are often consulted for clarity when theologians debate on issues but the final word should come from the Bible as a whole. I can’t stress it enough that the Bible should be read as one book with all being in harmony. Christianity does not depend on the Bible as a faith to exist and if the Bible disappears tomorrow, I believe Christians will all of a sudden find that they have less problems accepting each other’s denominations. The way to live should be the voice of the Holy spirit and not the Bible.

To start the conversation/dialogue, let’s firstly just consider the Islamic scriptures. I know every Muslim KNOWS how the Qur’an originated but let’s revisit some aspects.

As far as I know the Qur’an was not physically written and supplied from heaven but was narrated by the Angel Gabriel to the prophet Muhammad. Logically I accept that Gabriel used Arabian as language. The Qur’an then was dictated by the prophet Muhammad to various persons present who wrote it down on various artifacts. All was compiled in one book after the death of the prophet Muhammad. At sone time later, one Qur’an was chosen to represent the complete and authentic one and all others (not necessarily incorrect copies) were destroyed. All Qur’ans stem from this one as copies. The original One does not exist anymore, exact copies of it does.

While the Qur’an is considered Holy and pure by Islam, there also exist other scriptures called Hadiths which explain in more detail various concepts of Islam initially mentioned in the Qur’an.

Please feel free to correct and give more information to above short summary. I will in time want to discuss some in more details.

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^ just to add…the variations in different manuscripts can even be identified today
http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/ulum_al_Quran/index.htm
scroll down to masahifs of the companions…but it was agreed that one reading is finalized so that chances of variation are minimized.
The religious class the Qurra( quran recieters) in syria, kufa and their teachers in Medina were responsible for preserving it teachings.

Compilation was accomplished right before the start of the first civil war and during the war both sides carried the same copy of the Quran testifies to the fact that differences in various versions were inconsequential.Had their been even minor differences in text it would have been an excellent propoganda tool to use against ones opponent

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just to clarify, there were not different Qurans, there was always one Quran…
just the recitation varied…

just like schedule is read as sheedool and also as skedual…
as long as the arabs were the audience for Quran, the difference did not matter, because the meaning did not change, just pronounciation…

but once non-arabs entered Islam, it was thought that they might be confused, hence Uthman (ra), the third khalifa, made copies of one recitation and distributed it all over the muslim world and burnt other copies to remove confusions…

the Quran has always been one…

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Scriptures) - Islam and Christianity

Why was it necessary to burn the other Qur’ans if they were exact copies? The only logical reason would be that some had differences in or at least the possibility did exist. What happened to people who did not want to give their Qur’ans in to be destroyed?

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**
[quote]
Why was it necessary to burn the other Qur'ans if they were exact copies?
[/quote]
***^* here the problem becomes political not religious

[quote]

The only logical reason would be that some had differences in or at least the possibility did exist.

[/quote]
possibility does..... but overwhelming historical evidence is against it
Those people whose versions were burnt and their disciples lived long after this event many even survived the civil war ....but they never produced the supposedly "lost chapters" of the Quran ( remeber these people had memorized the whole Quran they could have easily made different copies after uthman's reign had it been so important/different but they didnt )

[quote]

*What happened to people who did not want to give their Qur'ans in to be destroyed?*
[/quote]

depends on which version of history you want to believe in ....but the most notable ones from the Qurra of kufa were exiled to syria, another sahabi abdullah b masud(ra) had a dispute with the caliph and later died in his reign.
But like I said reasons for dispute were more political than theological

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Well, it was necessary to burn. Initially during Caliphate of Abu Bakr, 70 of the companions of the Prophet died who memorized and hence a Mushaf was compiled.The Quran compiled during Uthman is wrong, Quran was compiled in the time of Abu Bakr, well Abu Bakr died after 2 years of Prophets death.

Mushaf mean a compiled document, initially it was a suhoof, means the surahs were in different broken parts. So after the death of Abu Bakr, the Quran Mushaf was in the hand of Hafsa, during the rule of Hazrath Umar.

Well, the companions of the Prophet such as Abdullaah ibn abbas, Ubay ibn Kaab, Zaid ibn Thabit had there own set of Mushafs in which the surahs, order varied in accordance to there own convenience. This can be called as there notebooks also as a similar word.

The sahaba karam, or the companions moved all over hte region to propogate Islamic knowledge, well the during this time the Chapter no.s varied. During this time as during the time of Abu bakr, again there was consensus amongst all the Sahaba, the complete Quran was compiled and the other Quran's were burnt whilst they shudnt me a problem in the future.

In fact in Surah Ahzab thats chapter 33 and verse 33 a verse(correct me if I am wrong) was missed out and a Companion added this verse.

We have to remember the Arabs were good orators, memorized each and everthing. During the time, Prophet itself many Sahaba Karam and memorized the Quran the first amongst them was Ubay ibn Kaab and then followed by there brothers.

Even if i use the concordist approach, why burn the exact copies of the Quran, well I ask you why shouldnt we burn it and produce the same copy again just to protect it from getting corrupted does it matter to burn a Quran and produce the same again yes no problem with that.

Today millions of Muslims know the Quran from the back of there mind, even if all the copies of the Quran were burnt today the exact copies of the Quran can be produced without doubt. So i pose a question whats there if we burn all the copies of the Quran even at that time and compile the Uthmanic script which is there in Tashkent now.

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  1. The Qur'an was given in Arabian for the Arabian people. Why wasn't there similar scriptures for other language groups since there, according to Islam, were prophets send to other language/cultural groups?

  2. Why can't the Qur'an not be 100% correctly translated into other languages to not always refer back to the Arabian one?

  3. The Qur'an written down was already four times removed from God. How could there not have crept ANY mistake in or something lost out?

  4. Was the Qur'an read back to the prophet Muhammad to verify the correctness?

  5. The prophet compiled the Qur'an over a long period and died shortly after the last bit was given. How do we know that the Qur'an was completed? Did the prophet state at any time that "this is now the complete message from Allaah"?

  6. Please explain "abrogation".

  7. The mere fact that all the other books were destroyed does make it seem very possible that differences did exist at the time. Why couldn't some of these be kept as part of history. Surely if the Qur'an was as important for God, He would not let any changes occur and therefor it was not necessary to destroy the early Qur'ans.

  8. Is the Qur'an considered "holy" and what does this entail?

  9. Did the prophet Muhammad dictate the Qur'an in the order it is now presented?

  10. What does the "Satanic Verses" of Salman Rushdi(?) refer to?

Breaking News: Suicide bombing at Islamabad Uni
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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Scriptures) - Islam and Christianity

[quote]

  1. The Qur'an was given in Arabian for the Arabian people. Why wasn't there similar scriptures for other language groups since there, according to Islam, were prophets send to other language/cultural groups?

[/quote]

Firstly i feel you should read my post above.

This is frivolous argument, common The Old Man, I can ask you the same stuff, Bible was revealed in Hebrew and Jesus pbuh spoke Aramaic and this language is outdated and the Original Script of the Bible is not found.

I wanna know Jesus spoke in Aramaic, why wasnt Bible revealed to other groupls and other languages. You mean to say Jesus only came for Jews not for the whole world(Accordign to christianity though in bible its written Jesus came for Israel same with Quran too).

It is fortunate for Islam, that Quran was revealed when Arabic was at its zenith. Aramaic is a poverty stricken tongue compared to Arabic and Hebrew at its best could rival Arabic in astonishing elasticity.

[quote]

  1. Why can't the Qur'an not be 100% correctly translated into other languages to not always refer back to the Arabian one?

[/quote]

Arabic language has extraordinary flexibility of the verb and noun.The Arabic language is a rich language with let us take the root word d-w-r which in its simplest form is to turn or revolve. now with this root word i can get up to a minimum of 15 words in Arabic.If you want this words i will pm this to you and these forms is predetermined by the structural genius of Arabic.

Well because of all this, exact meaning of Arabic words cannot be found in other languages. Eg. Deen is translated into religion whre as it is Madhab for religion, Deen is a complete word for way of life.

[quote]

  1. The Qur'an written down was already four times removed from God. How could there not have crept ANY mistake in or something lost out?

[/quote]

Can you elaborate this with an eg.

[quote]

  1. Was the Qur'an read back to the prophet Muhammad to verify the correctness?

[/quote]

In the month of ramadan angel Gabriel came down to the Prophet to listen to Prophet recite the Quran, and the last ramadan of the Noble Prophet pbuh Angel Gabriel did hear to the recitation of the Quran twice.

[quote]

  1. The prophet compiled the Qur'an over a long period and died shortly after the last bit was given. How do we know that the Qur'an was completed? Did the prophet state at any time that "this is now the complete message from Allaah"?

[/quote]

I have answered your question partly on top, well this verse of the Quran is to suffice
005:003
This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

[quote]

  1. Please explain "abrogation".

[/quote]

The scholars have written volume about this the Abrogation theory, itself proves that Quran was written down as told to the Prophet and it was never manipulated this is a staunch reason for it.

For eg. Alcohol they were 3 verses revealed i am paraphrasing here,
1. dont take Alcohol though its of little profit but huge loss the word is huge loss as the Arabs used to drink like fish.
The second time dont approach, Prayers when you someone is consumed Alcohol

The third verse 5:90 it was told it is sinful or haram.

Now Allaah in the quran is refuted your point that we get verses similar to it or better than it that is Abrogation.

Now look at the 3 verses by Allaah for abolishing Alcohol and it such a practical way of doing it you cant force the community to stop Alcohol at once. Read it again at first it was told dont drink there is no use of it, secondly since we are told to pray 5 times a day so in the day time you cant approach or consume alcohol only during the night.

Well now you know they are de addiction camps in this world who follow the same method. This should suffice you.

[quote]

  1. The mere fact that all the other books were destroyed does make it seem very possible that differences did exist at the time. Why couldn't some of these be kept as part of history. Surely if the Qur'an was as important for God, He would not let any changes occur and therefor it was not necessary to destroy the early Qur'ans.

[/quote]

They are there as part of history and this answer, is provided in the link above and my post. otherwise how would one know the mushafs of Abdullaah ibn Masood, Ubay ibn Kaab

[quote]

  1. Is the Qur'an considered "holy" and what does this entail?

[/quote]

Please elaborate more or someone can help you I dont understand.

[quote]

  1. Did the prophet Muhammad dictate the Qur'an in the order it is now presented?

[/quote]

Yes and ofcourse I can give you an explanation for it.
Well read the Chapter 1 of the Quran, Allaah at the end of it is says "Guide us to the straight path, and not guidance of who have gone astray".

The second chapter, second verse Allaah say there is no doubt there is Guidance in this.Well in the second chapter of the Holy Quran you have complete details of the how a Muslim should shape his/her life and how a muslim is guided. For eg the 5 pillars of Quran, when is ramadan, regarding divorce, regarding interest whole lot of topic.

Now at the end of the Chapter Allaah speaks about the Messengeres and we should believe in the Messengers.At the start of next Chapter thats no. 3 Allaah gives the description of Torah and the Bible in the verse 3, this shows that Prophet had already ordered the Present Quran in the form it should be.

Well more to it is Adam and Jesus are similar in many ways so they name is 25 times written in the Bible and we change the order then till Chapter no. 3 they are mentioned either 7 or 13 times in similar terms so this couls also change.

Well they are mathematical miracles proved in the Quran by recent scholars, well I dont wont to delve into it.

[quote]

  1. What does the "Satanic Verses" of Salman Rushdi(?) refer to? [/quote]

Well have you read the satanic verses i have read the excerpts of ti he accuses my dear friend even Margret Thatcher calls a bit*, He abuse Prophet Abraham infact call him a bast**also, same for Angel Gabriel as well as most of the Prophets its not only about Islam but in general everyone.

Well the worst is the Westerners are double faced this will disgress the topic. Thanks

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i told u before, the difference was not in the text of the Quran, the difference was on recitation, and with non-arabs entering Islam, this difference cud be confusing…

e.g. a word in Quran is read nusqeekum, another recitation read it as naqeekum, yet another one reads it tasqeekum…
these all dont change the meaning of the verse, but for those who r not familiar with arabic they can easily, like yourself, mistake it for differences in the Quran and hence be daoubtful of the truthfulness of the religion…
a total of 7 recitations existed according to the dialects of the different arab tribes…
Uthman got rid of all copies, except the one on the Qurayshi accent, which was the tribe of the Prophet Muhammad (saw)…

also there were ppl who did not have the full copy of it, since Quran was written on pieces of wood, leather etc, and not all ppl had the full copy…
so this cud also be later misleading, hence such copies were also destroyed…
because the companions of the Prophet (saw) knew the Quran by heart, they wud not have faced such confusions, but people who were to come later wud certainly have faced confusion…

i dont think this thing is quite difficult to understand…
its very logical and straightforward…

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The fact that there were no differences is how attested? Surely you can understand that as an outsider I, and others like me, will think that the early Qur’ans were destroyed because of the fear that differences were possible? You have to at least be able to concede that the thought must cross a non-Muslim mind when they hear that important early documents of Islam were destroyed?

I accept this.

This is a reason why the others might have been destroyed, yes. But it does not answer why they could not be kept for posterity (taken out of circulation without destroying them). What I have seen posted on Gupshup w.r.t. the savekeeping of old Qur’ans and articles with words from it, make it seem strange that the early Qur’ans or part-of-Qur’ans should be destroyed…that is not so logical and straightforward as it might seem to you. If these early editions were kept, this argumentation could not be possible as there would be concrete proof that there were uniformity in the early Qur’ans.

I have read somewhere that one of the persons the prophet Muhammad recited to, initially refused to give up his Qur’an and was threatened in order to give it up for destruction. If this is true, it might mean that some very influencial people did not agree with Uthman’s actions. Can you confirm this event?

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Das Reich, thanks for your interesting info on the political and historical differences at that time. I have read your post but did not want to get involved with these issues as it might digress from the main topic.

TO ALL: If I don't respond to a post, please realize that I read every post in this thread but sometimes don't respond due to various reasons:

  1. I feel the post doesn't require a response.

  2. In responding to the post with further questions I might move to far away from what I would rather like to discuss.

  3. I don't respond well to cut-and-pasts. If someone can't summarize it in their own words, I believe they have not read it themselves. Why should I read it?

  4. I don't respond well to abusive posts and/or posters.

  5. It might be that I need to do some reading before reponding.

  6. Sometimes I just forget to post an answer.

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This seems to me to be a discussion on Islaam rather than a comparison between Islaam and Christianity which I think was the intention of the thread?

If you boil it down to basics, both religions beleive in the same "God/Allah". The same "stories" for the most part (ie., Noah, Adam & Eve etc), we are all "children of the book".

Differences seem to be IMHO in the customs and regulations (for lack of a better word) of being a "good" Christian or Muslim. Muslims pray 5 times a day, in a particular manner, with particular words, etc. Christians have prayers but typically just "talk" to "God". Some Christian religions require that a follower go to "Confession" to tell a Priest all about their sins before they can receive a holy sacrament of bread and wine. Some christian religions do not require this. Some christian religions say that a GOOD person will go to heaven, others (catholocism) say that only good catholics go there.

It seems to me that there are more similarities than differences but each has its own unique requirements and each has to its credit (and also its discredit!) its own interpretation of scriptures, their meaning etc.

No one can say for sure what has or has not been edited, changed modified etc. Its up to each individual to internalize their own beleifs about this and let others have their own too. That was the intention I think.

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Sorry, double post...

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I have read it.

Firstly we are now talking about the Qur’an and not the Bible, so please don’t quid pro quo arguments. Secondly Christians don’t hold the Bible in the same reference as Islam do with the Qur’an. Thirdly, it is a claim by Islam that other cultures and peoples did also receive messengers.

I think Arabic culture only reached their height AFTER the prophet Muhammad.

This is a very subjective argument.

The most difficult word to translate according to a BBC survey of translators is a word from the Kongo, Chinese the widest spoken, English the commercial and scientific language, the newest full language is my home language Afrikaans, etc. Arabic is definitive not the language in the world w.r.t. beauty, etc. And all these languages can be express suffiently in at least a hundred other languages w.r.t. the meaning of words/sintax, even if a whole sentence is necessary to convey a words exact meaning.

God (originator) gave the message to Gabriel (second person), who gave the message to the prophet Muhammad (third person in understanding), who dictated it to various persons (fourth in understanding queue), who wrote it down on th fifth medium (and then I leave out the history from there).

I did not read about this in the Qur’an, please give quote.

If this is the last dictation the prophet said, yes, then it is proof. Is this the last dictation given? Any proof?

Can you please explain Abrogation. What does it mean in simple definition.

I read on the site Das Reich gave that the Qur’an is not compiled in the same format as the prophet dictated. (A big proof that I do sometime follow links… :slight_smile: ). Please also see what they say was the last dictation w.r.t. to your response to my question 5 and your answer. Makes your answer a non-answer actually…

I have not read it but might someday. I read about 40 books (70% non-fiction) with a total of 12 000 pages per year (a target for each year and are this year already past it). What is the book about? I have read somewhere that it contains some questions on the authenticity/completeness of the Qur’an…

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Re: Interfaith Dialogue (Scriptures) - Islam and Christianity

If you read the second post, and also some of the other threads in this dialogue, you will see that we tend to discuss first one side and then the other side’s point of view. It did prevent people from getting hot under the collar till now.

True.

What we are attempting to do is to discuss ALL the agreements/dis-agreements between the two religions (well we attemp to with our limited abilities). We started off with a discussion of God Almighty and take one topic per thread to not have too many pages. I advise you to maybe look at this thread and specifically the first post to see where we are heading.

Welcome to the discussion…

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How safe would they have been if they did this during the political turmoil in those days?

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Well thats good, and thanks btw I am harsh at times but cant help it dont mind.

I felt the thread was an indication of Interfaith dialogue so thast fine. Islam claims messengers have gone to every nation, but that does not mean Arabic only. Its not a criteria for a Prophet ot be speaking Arabic, right like Jesus spoke Aramaic and he is the mightiest messengers in Islam and Moses spoke Hebrew and again one of the Mighties of messengers.
I agree with the christians do not consider the bible but considering the Word of God it should be treated with high esteem.:slight_smile:

.

This needs a complete brush up of history during the Pre Islamic Arabia. In fact, they lived a most primitive and barbarous existence. There was one thing in which they excelled - that was their language. They were extremely found of poetry, and prided themselves in their poetic abilities. The Arabs hosted was even an annual market in Uhaz just for poetry. The age of Muhammad was a time when the Arabs were at the peak of their linguistic abilities(This is the same for allthe Prophets for Jesus, Moses, Hud pbut).

This is something great, one of the finest poems ever written in Arabic was that of Labaid ibn Rabiyah, who’s poem, when recited at Uhaz, caused the Arabs to prostrate before him in admiration(After i read this i asked my Arab friend and they have lots of respect few of his poems are still translated in english).

When this same Labaid began to hear the verses of Qur’an, he embraced Islam, and gave up poetry altogether. When he was once asked to recite some poetry he said: “What! After the Qur’an?”

I hope you could prove me wrong.

I never told you Arabic is a difficult language i told you its flexible and its very poetic coz all of the Semitic languages existed for a long long time and English as a language only existant for 10 centuries..

I cant answer to rest of it coz I have zero knowledge about it.

The sahaba karam wrote it down are called as the kithabe wahi and yes Prophet did ask them to recite it back to them. Like Prophet was revealed with 7 different recitation once a Companion recited in a different manner Hazrath caught hold of his cloadk and in hasty blamed ur not reciting the way of the Prophet, when they went to the Prophet both the recitations was confirmed by Prophet overall.
Before Prophet used to make stand anyone as a leader, it was with due knowledge of the Quran and the Sahaba used to recite the Quran, and since its only allowed to read the Quran in our five daily Prayers this is a great confirmation about it.
Once Prophet forgot a verse in the Quran, and after the prayer he just remembered and asked is Ubay ibn Kaab there, and asked him did i forget th e verse in the Quran the Prophet asked him and he confirmed yes you had forgottne this verse in this place.

This is an authentic hadith the second source to Muslims.

NO this is not the last dictation, this was 90 days before Prophet expired but Hazrath Umar told once if given a chance to feast I would have celebrated the day this verse was revelaed. but since we only celebrate 2 days it wasnt possible pun intended. Well the last verse was Surah 2:181 and last surah was Surah Nasr.
But before this all of this was put togehter as i have already read the link provided by Das reich long ago, the Propeht used to tell the Sahaba karam to put this verse in that chapter as revealed by Allaah.
Well I have even provied the proof that, the Chapters synchronize each other especially the last verse and the first verses.

In simple words its annulment or abolishing previous said laws in that way Allaah confirmed on the 3 divinely laws earlier, Psalms, Toran and Bible. Well i wanna know whats your take on this.
I have provided you the best eg, the other eg is the direction of Prayers also.

Well i do agree the Quran wasnt compiled as dictated by the Prophet coz, Quran wasnt revealed as chapter by chapter it was revealed accordign to the situation prevalet there.
For example the first verse to be revealed was of Chapter 96, can you believe it. Then they are Makkah and Medina surahs. Most of the Makkan surahs were revealed to the Idolators but u find this surahs in the end of Quran regarding believing in one God, JD and others.
The medina surahs were dictated after the Makkan surahs but find them in Chapter 2 as in medina the Jews and the Christains were present. So Allaah in its divine wisdom knew where to reveal the and at what situation.
Well regardign ur post #5 i will refute with that surely.

Believe me it contains about all the religions and not only Islam though he is written stuf against most of the Prohets it was a media propaganda to vilify Muslims.

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Well as told the Quran was memorized by scores of them at that time. Even if i suppose they woudnt want to give the quran back, but if somehow they would recite they would find in lots of differences and they would be corrected.

Well i dont believe so coz the faith of Islam entered there heart and for the sake of Allaah to stop anyone playing around with the book of Allaah the wouldnt keep it.

Even if they would have kept it, as armughal is answered the Quran was recited the Quraish accent, and had to take all from the Companions of the prophet before any afflictions.

Well the different scriptures of the Quran have been found later but the historians have proved it wrong, only wrt the Scriptures and the written style. Overall i feel a walk down to Tashkent whre the Uthmanic script is preserved, and compare it to todays Quran its the same.

I agree lots of orientalists have disagreed on this factor and have even fabricated that a Quran Mushaf was found in Yemen but no references has been provided.

Overall in verse 15:9, Allaah exalted he is in the Noble Quran is vowed
015.009YUSUFALI: We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it.

Since this is true till date as millions know the Quran by heart, thats a proof and a miracle and the truth that Quran is from Allaah. Believe me they are kids at age 9 can recite Quran and they dont even understand a word in the Quran these are non-arabic speaking Muslims.

Just my 2 cents as this topic is covered can we go ahead with the Scripture of Bible as this argument would go on infinite otherwise. I request the moderator of this thread:) USR to go ahead with my request and only with his consent.

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I won’t respond to such remarks in future…but will consider it harsh and daft :slight_smile:

Not my point. Why not revelation scripture in other languages the same as Qur’an? Where is the scriptures of other cultures? Why only the Qur’an and the Bible mentioned? Surely these other prophets would also compile scriptures?

This information from the Hadith, I suppose. Why would Uthman destroy the Qur’an’s due to different recitation, as armughal state in posts 4 and 10, if the different recitations were accepted by the prophet Muhammad? Surely Uthman can’t override the prophet Muhammad? If this is true, that the prophet Muhammad accepted the different pronunciations, the logic and reason that armughal gave for destroying the early Qur’ans are null and void and another better reason should be looked for.

What was this better reason other than that there were felt at the time that discrepancieas could exist…

It does seem strange to me that it was not confirmed in the Qur’an because such an important issue should have been. Please copy-paste the Hadith describing this meeting between the prophet and Gabriel.

Then you have no proof that there might not have been other revelations if the prophet Muhammad lived longer as he continued to give revelations after this. This mean for an outsider like me that the Qur’an might not be complete and hence not the last word.

(Could you give me the Qur’an reference for changing the prayer direction - not for this discussion)

So, ‘abrogation’ means that some rule/meaning in the Qur’an was changed in the same Qur’an?

The order was confirmed by the prophet Muhammad?

BUT what about does it say about the completeness/authenticity of the Qur’an?