Inter-Ethnic Hackings...

I just came across this… I thought some people may be interested.
http://www.understanding-islam.com/ret/et-005.htm


*Question:

Are the hacking wars between Israeli and Muslim web surfers permissible in Islam. They hack us and we hack back. Is it ok? Specially when hacking is considered a crime?

These wars were dubbed by most newspapers as e-jihad.

Fee Aman-Allah,

Yahya

Reply:

In my opinion, a Muslim should avoid resorting to any unethical practices. Our ethics and morality should not be relative to those of others, but should be absolute. Thus, we must adhere to our moral and ethical values with others, irrespective of whether others adhere to these values or not. In other words, we should deal with others, in a way that we would like them to deal with us, not in a way that they actually deal with us.

Regards,

Moiz Amjad*


I agree with the scholar. But what do you people think? Have you heard much about this activity going on?

I wonder who coined up the term e-jihad…


They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?

E-Jihad???

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ITs a shame that people are trying to make an entertenment out of holy Jihad…whats next? Jihadul Matrix???

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We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile

I don’t agree with that term either… but it is catchy. I guess that is why some newspapers like to use it.

Maybe… hmmm… check the Oxford dictionary after a few years and then we’ll know whether it will have been widely used or not.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

I would love to know what definition it would have though…


They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?

[This message has been edited by Mr Partypooper (edited December 13, 2000).]

I disagree with the scholar quoted here bigtime.The reply is very much flawed on its reasoning.And it doesn't even get close to answering the question asked.
I think any reasonbale muslim would understand that justification for jihad is not characterised by 'where' it takes place but under what conditions.
e-jihad is as good as any other kind of jihad.Of course you don't have to call it 'e-jihad' but jihad it is for sure.I am not interested in the terms here.What I am interested in is that we should differentiate between what is jihad and what is not?
Hacking sites just for fun or having simply destructive nature is not jihad but for a good purpose it is.

Ahmed, I don’t think the scholar said that e-jihad is an example of “proper” jihad. You are right when you said that jihad is only “true jihad” under strict conditions. These conditions were defined by the scholar himself elsewhere:

*"The Islamic term ‘Jihad’ has generally been misused in our present times to imply ‘killing the opponent using any means, whatsoever’. This is the reason why in the present times, many terrorist activities are carried out in the name of ‘Jihad’. However, this implication of the term ‘Jihad’ is far from being correct. ‘Jihad’, on the contrary, is governed by strict laws and rules – derived from the Qur’an and the teachings ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh). For instance, ‘Jihad’, according to the Qur’an and the teachings ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) – after the companions of the Prophet (pbuh) – is a declared warfare against injustice and oppression carried out by an organized Islamic state.

Keeping the above definition of ‘Jihad’ in mind, it can safely be said that no terrorist activities can fall within the scope of ‘Jihad’, even if they are sponsored and silently backed by an organized state.

Besides the above definition, there are also some moral rules and ethical teachings regarding ‘Jihad’. These moral rules and ethical teachings are also based on the fundamental teachings of the Qur’an and those ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh). For instance, if a Muslim nation has entered into a no-war pact with another nation, ‘Jihad’ cannot be carried-out against that other nation – even against injustice and oppression – until the appointed time of the pact expires or until the Muslim nation openly declares its withdrawal from such no-war pact. Furthermore, even in case of a declared warfare, women, children and the elderly can in no case be made a target of aggression.*

So looking at this definition of jihad given above, then e-jihad, I’m sure, is not a proper example of “jihad” unless it satisfies the conditions stipulated within the definition itself.

I don’t know of any organised Islamic state that has justified such hacking by openly declaring warfare upon such injustice and aggression and thereby carrying out such “e-jihad”. So I get the idea that none of these common hackings that are so prevalent nowadays can come under the category of jihad".

That’s not to say that I’m not wrong.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?

[This message has been edited by Mr Partypooper (edited December 13, 2000).]

Okay now partypooper I am getting serious doubts about the quality of this scholar as once again I find his dealing with definition of jihad to be inefficient,inaccurate and incomplete.To begin with he deals with the issue ignoring many aspacts of jihad.I particularly disagree with the organized state bit.In my opinion he is indulging himslef there.This is not to say that I am not wrong either

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

but this is what I think.
I agree with the later part about the moral conditions and having a pact etc.
Coming back to the topic of this thread,since I disagree with the organized state bit I have to maintain that e-jihad can be proper jihad given that it satisfies other conditions of jihad.Remember media is the battle ground of this day and age,and right now muslims are far behind.
Remember if there are sites out there spreading lies than muslims have every right to try to bring those down.A state doesn’t have to sanction that.Sites not doing so can also be hacked as revenge attacks like the case of israeli defence sites recently.

[This message has been edited by Ahmed (edited December 13, 2000).]

Ahmed, if you disagree with the definition, then it will be obvious that our opinions will be somewhat different.

Would you like to examine this scholar more closely?

Please tell me what you think of these question - answer responses from the scholar on the subject of Jihad.
http://www.understanding-islam.com/qj.htm

There is an article on the same site called “No Jihad Without the State”.
http://www.understanding-islam.com/articles/jehad/njwts.htm

The reason for this condition is that without political sovereignity Jihad becomes Fasaad [disorder, chaos, anarchy, etc]. How is it possible that a group which does not even have the right to award punishment to a criminal should be given the right to wage war?


They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?

Partypooper,
Thanks for the links.I’ll check them out but I am notoriously slow on checking out sites

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so i’ll get back on that tomorrow inshallah.
I understand what you are saying on groups waging jihad on there own possibly leading to fassad but then by the definition given there by this scholar the palestinian strggle against israel was not jihad.The struggle is kashmir is not jihad and niether was hezbollah fighting israel in lebanon.Do you believe that?I think there has to be better reasoning than that.
We also need to take into consideration implications of modern times.This is a job that scholars should normally undertake.

I understand what you are saying.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Anyway… are you busy this weekend?


They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?

partypooper yar why not come to chat?I am already logged on.Yes I am busy this weekend.But after that holidays start so I will be free next weekend.

OK…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?

Hehe...Partypooper, looks like you're a very good friend of Moiz.

Anyways...I was the one who asked the question...Yahya.

I agree with him that we should behave the way we want others to behave and thus I would agree that the E-jihad is wrong.

However you will find that the jews have hacked a lot of our sites and corrupted the info to be anti-Islamic, but still I agree 100% with Moiz, and instead of concentrating on attacking them, we should try to help pur brothers defend their servers.

AOA,
Yahya

prince_x… I had a feeling that it was you that had asked but I wasn’t certain.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?

Partypooper,
Well Of course I havenot been able to go through the entire site as there is loads of stuff there but I have checked the two links provided by you and some other relevant suff on the site,and though my opinion of the scholar has improved a bit(but just a bit)

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.Frankly I have several problems with the opinions expressed there.I think many a points made are based on flawed reasoning–in other words flawed understanding of islamic principles–but before I go into that,let me ask you this…
Are these reponses in answer to questiopns raised on some multi-faith forum?

I don't know Ahmed. He only answers those queries which are sent to him be e-mail. He then posts most of them up on the site.

What do you mean by a multi-faith forum? Like here at Gupshup?


They shoot partypoopers, don't they?

The fight is not for spoils or gains, but for a cause. If any website acts as a tool of propagation of fallacious ideas against the Believers, then it's justified to shut it down through any means possible. Why ?

As Allah mentions in **Surah Anfal(The spoils of War)

** Fight the good fight, but dispute not about the prize: that is for Allah to give. Men act and obey. 'Tis nobler to fight for truth than to seek wordly gain. To the pure in faith Allah will give the mind and resources to conquer. They but fight, with no thought of ever turning back: the victory should be ascribed to Allah, not men. **

Jehad is a matter decreed upon all Muslims by Allah. The spiritual matters of Jehad are exactly similar to those enforced by military virtue and discipline. If enemy is threatening the interests of Muslims over the internet, it is fair and square to retaliate in an appropriate manner.

**Remmember thy lord inspired the angels( with the message): " I am with you: give firmness to believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of Unbelievers: Smite ye above their necks and smite all their fingertips off them." [8:12]

This beacause they contended Against Allah and his messanger: If any contend against Allah and hid messanger, Allah is strict in punishment. [8:13]**

Allah( SWT) go on to mention:

O ye who believe! When ye meet the unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. [18:14]

Bear in mind that every act in jehad must be ascribed to Allah (SWT) and, the damage it inflicts on unbelievers should serve towards the sustenance of Muslim Ummah.** Nevertheless, one must use his/her concience before carrying out such an attack. Never misuse knowledge and talent. If fruitation of all efforts quell venomosity against Muslims, then I believe it's perfectly legitimate.

are convinced that Khilafah is fard


b.k

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They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?