Re: Intelligence Failures
And zafra nihari pai wala is the expert on COIN?
3 years in Afghanistan pretty much makes me the only guy on GS with any experience :D
And I do love me some pai....how did you know?
Re: Intelligence Failures
The same agencies were hell bent to make the whole nation and global media believe that they are actually very stupid and incompetent just a couple of years ago.. When Bin Laden was found in the garrison town of Abottabad, 50 meters from the largest military academy in a suspicious looking compound with 3 meter high walls with another 2 meters of barbed wires. Should I post the NYT article published a couple of month ago which suggests the involvement in these agencies to hide him? ?
For that matter, theres the GHQ attack and the Mehran Base attack as well, and our military intelligence failed on both these occasions. But that doesnt mean they are responsible for every failure. If we dont want to fight them at our airports, our rulers should develop a spine, and see a strategy through to the end, whether right or wrong. But as we have seen, govt is half hearted on just about everything it does, whether negotiations, or operations. Noone is more frustrated at this approach than the armed forces.
As for the OBL episode, its my personal perception, but I cannot for one believe that OBL was staying there without the knowledge of the intelligence agencies AND CIA. He was likely kept there by design, and was taken out at a time of their convenience.
Re: Intelligence Failures
For that matter, theres the GHQ attack and the Mehran Base attack as well, and our military intelligence failed on both these occasions. But that doesnt mean they are responsible for every failure. If we dont want to fight them at our airports, our rulers should develop a spine, and see a strategy through to the end, whether right or wrong. But as we have seen, govt is half hearted on just about everything it does, whether negotiations, or operations. Noone is more frustrated at this approach than the armed forces.
As for the OBL episode, its my personal perception, but I cannot for one believe that OBL was staying there without the knowledge of the intelligence agencies AND CIA. He was likely kept there by design, and was taken out at a time of their convenience.
The only option the Pakistan army wants to take is carpet bombing in N. Waziristan. Do you think that's an option without securing our mega cities?
With the present competence of our Intelligence, and a suspicious profile which you yourself admit in case of OBL.. and some other militant outfits which are perceived to be supported by our Intelligence agencies.. I don't think that's an option. It will just backfire and do more damage than any gain.
Our Intelligence agency was more concerned about acquiring blackberry data of Mansoor Ejaz than finding culprits who attack our cities (Preempting the attacks and fighting the rascals in their dens inside our cities would be better).. These guys have twisted priorities.. any success against militancy in Pakistan would require major over hauling of Intelligence agencies.
Here is what Hillary Clinton says about ISI in her latest book:
In a chapter about Pakistan -- the country where bin Laden was found -- Clinton writes at length about the search and the tensions that compounded after U.S. Navy SEALS entered the country to get the terrorist leader.
"I knew how offended they would be if we did not share this information with them," Clinton writes. "But I also knew that elements in the Pakistani intelligence service, the ISI, maintained ties to the Taliban, al Qaeda, and other extremists. The risks of blowing the whole operation were just too great."
Re: Intelligence Failures
Yeh siraf Allah tabarak o taala hain jinhon nay pata naheen kyoun is mulk ko bacha kay rakha hoa hay
Re: Intelligence Failures
Yeh siraf Allah tabarak o taala hain jinhon nay** pata naheen kyoun is mulk ko bacha kay rakha hoa hay**
baqi dunya ko sabaq dikhanay ke liye :p
Re: Intelligence Failures
In the words of Interior Minister, Sindh government was given six reminders since November about possible terrorist attacks, so how is it an intelligence failure? If adequate security measures were taken, these terrorists would not have even got into the airport or even got anywhere close to it. But this is what happens when the majority of local security is busy guarding the palaces of parasitical political families and feudal ministers than serving the public.
Any given a moment a building in London or New York can be declared high alert or even attacked, but it's the job of police and special anti-terrorism forces to stop the warnings from reality, and have an emergency response team ready at hand. 2007 Glasgow Airport attack anyone? There's a reasons why each respective Western countries have dozens of cases of foiled terrorists attacks (now of these countries have FATA or Afghanistan as their neighbour). Let's not get into that chicken vs egg debate. Terrorism is a serious and constant threat in some of the most peaceful countries, and it's about time Pakistanis start answering the 'how' question (i.e how to effectively foil, minimize and tackle terrorist attacks) question, instead of going round and round the circles with their 'why o why' pleas.
As an end note, the last 3-4 months Pakistan had seen a monumental, actually a miraculous decrease in daily terrorism and high profile attacks in Pakistan, so intelligence must be doing something right. Or perhaps it's just a case of stars and moons behaving well in the galaxy. Who knows...
Re: Intelligence Failures
3 years in Afghanistan pretty much makes me the only guy on GS with any experience :D
And I do love me some pai....how did you know?
taliban sent you back ? why?
Re: Intelligence Failures
taliban sent you back ? why?
LOL! Cute but weak.
Re: Intelligence Failures
Great, they got OBL, now what? Has it stopped these movements at all? I prefer the theory that everyone knew where he was, and he was placed there deliberately, and removed deliberately, the timing of which was by design. Whose design, really, I'm not sure, but it was probably by design. ISI knew he was in abottabad, and so the CIA probably knew too for a while.
But removing him, hasn't really done much. The monster is still there. There are too many fighters out there, and not just in Pakistan, but globally. And anyone who doesn't serve their agenda, is at risk for bombing. The only reason a lot of this stuff isn't happening in the West anymore, is because we have beefed up our security tremendously here. There is an agent in every mosque, they're monitoring where the money is going in and out. As I think they should! Charities have been mostly shut down, other than the few that passed US scrutiny on their operations. Muslims have become more aware. Pakistanis know that there are certain areas it's safe to give money to, like Edhi, and other projects can't be trusted.
There is no beefing up of security in Pakistan. I know people who work in Karachi's airport, and I know people who have recently traveled through there as early as the day after the attack. The chairs that should and normally would have security people on those chairs are abandoned - that's DIRECT EYE WITNESS reporting from someone whose flight landed soon after the airport was cleared for operations probably few hours after those 7 bodies were found dead in the freezer no one wanted to open. There are witness reports on news channels of people saying they got into the airport grounds without anyone questioning them or stopping their car.
So if people aren't even GONNA TRY to keep their neighborhoods secure, how do you expect to tone down the terrorist attacks. Every home in Pakistan should have a talaashi. Every mosque should have a talaashi. There should be a crackdown on guns.
How did the terrorists get airforce security uniforms? There are stores in Karachi that make rip-off uniforms - they don't check anyone's ID. If you want a uniform of a particular sort, you just give them the measurements and they make it for you.
Where the eff is the common sense? Where is the security?
Re: Intelligence Failures
Its unbelievable about the sheer incompetence of the local and provincial gov’t not taking any action even though they were forewarned.
And CM Sindh showing up with a security apparatus hours later 
Re: Intelligence Failures
Great, they got OBL, now what? Has it stopped these movements at all? I prefer the theory that everyone knew where he was, and he was placed there deliberately, and removed deliberately, the timing of which was by design. Whose design, really, I'm not sure, but it was probably by design. ISI knew he was in abottabad, and so the CIA probably knew too for a while.
But removing him, hasn't really done much. The monster is still there. There are too many fighters out there, and not just in Pakistan, but globally. And anyone who doesn't serve their agenda, is at risk for bombing. The only reason a lot of this stuff isn't happening in the West anymore, is because we have beefed up our security tremendously here. There is an agent in every mosque, they're monitoring where the money is going in and out. As I think they should! Charities have been mostly shut down, other than the few that passed US scrutiny on their operations. Muslims have become more aware. Pakistanis know that there are certain areas it's safe to give money to, like Edhi, and other projects can't be trusted.
There is no beefing up of security in Pakistan. I know people who work in Karachi's airport, and I know people who have recently traveled through there as early as the day after the attack. The chairs that should and normally would have security people on those chairs are abandoned - that's DIRECT EYE WITNESS reporting from someone whose flight landed soon after the airport was cleared for operations probably few hours after those 7 bodies were found dead in the freezer no one wanted to open. There are witness reports on news channels of people saying they got into the airport grounds without anyone questioning them or stopping their car.
So if people aren't even GONNA TRY to keep their neighborhoods secure, how do you expect to tone down the terrorist attacks. ** Every home in Pakistan should have a talaashi. Every mosque should have a talaashi. There should be a crackdown on guns. **
How did the terrorists get airforce security uniforms? There are stores in Karachi that make rip-off uniforms - they don't check anyone's ID. If you want a uniform of a particular sort, you just give them the measurements and they make it for you.
Where the eff is the common sense? Where is the security?
This is very extreme and it would only incite a severe backlash from the public.