Inhumane actions that create religious tensions

** Documenting the Massacre in Mazar**

Genevieve Roja, AlterNet
July 8, 2002 http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13540

A documentary film by Scottish filmmaker Jamie Doran titled ** “Massacre at Mazar” offers eyewitness testimony and film footage of human remains and mass graves of what may be damning evidence of mass killings at
Sherberghan and Mazar-I-Sharif in Northern Afghanistan.**

The massacre allegedly took place in November 2001, when Gen. Abdul Rashid
Dostum of the Northern Alliance took control of Kunduz, and accepted the ** surrender of about 8,000 Taliban fighters that included al-Qaeda, Chechens, Uzbeks and Pakistanis.** Almost 500 suspected al-Qaeda members

were taken to the Qala Jangi prison fortress (where a revolt would eventually leave one CIA agent dead and make John Walker Lindh a household name), while the remainder of the prisoners – ** about 7,500 – were loaded in containers and transported to the Qala-I-Zeini fortress, almost halfway between Mazar-i-Sharif and Sherberghan Prison. Human rights advocates say that close to 5,000 of the original 8,000 are missing. **

Eyewitnesses in Doran’s film claim that many of the prisoners ** may have suffocated in the nearly airless shipping containers** en route to their destinations. ** Others were shot ** when Northern Alliance soldiers fired into the containers to create air holes. And their bodies may have been buried in mass graves.

Doran – who has not released his film to the public in order to protect the identities of eyewitnesses – recently showed 20 minutes of his film to members of the German parliament June 12 and to the members of the European parliament and press on June 13. The screening drew a prompt
response from human rights activists, including Andrew McEntee, former Amnesty International UK chair, who demanded an independent investigation.French Euro MP Francis Wurtz said he would address the massacre at a parliament meeting this month, while his other colleagues said they would
enlist the help of the International Committee of the Red Cross to conduct
an investigation.

Doran, a veteran BBC filmmaker, says “Massacre at Mazar” includes key
testimony from various eyewitnesses who offer compelling evidence of a human rights tragedy, including:

– an Afghan general who explains how he helped unload and load ** “around 200, maybe up to 300 [prisoners] in each” container.**

– an anonymous Afghan soldier who says he “hit the containers with bullets to make holes for ventilation. Some of them were killed inside the containers and then we sent them on to Sherberghan.” When asked who gave the order, he said “the commanders ordered me to hit the containers to make holes for ventilation and because of that some of the prisoners were killed.”

– a local taxi driver who says he “smelled something strange” when he >stopped for gas. “I asked the petrol attendant where the smell was coming from. He said ‘Look behind you,’ and there were trucks with containers
fixed on them … ** Blood was leaking from the containers – they were full of dead bodies.”**

– two civilian drivers who say they drove trucks of men to Dasht Leili, ** “where [the prisoners] were shot.” ** A driver tells Doran that ** there were American soldiers present at Dasht Leili. “How many Americans were with you?” Doran asks. The driver replies, “30 or 40.”**

– an Afghan soldier who claims to have been present ** “when an American soldier broke one prisoner’s neck and poured acid on others. The Americans did whatever they wanted. We had no power to stop them.” **

Doran’s film – and the allegations of mass killings – has received extensive media coverage in Europe, ** but is getting little attention in the U.S. ** The lack of reaction, says Doran, puts the safety of the graves in jeopardy with each passing day.

The U.S. military is denying any knowledge of or involvement in a massacre.

A Pentagon official was quoted by the Guardian (U.K.) as saying that “the
U.S. Central Command looked into it a few months ago, when allegations first surfaced when there were graves discovered in the area of Sherberghan prison. They looked into it and did not substantiate any knowledge, presence or participation of U.S. service members.” Pentagon spokesman Marin Corps Lt. Col. Dave Lapan told reporters that he
considered the allegations of torture to be “highly suspect.”

“Our service members don’t participate in torture of any type,” said Lapan.

Doran is skeptical about the Pentagon’s position.

“Military is about chain of command,” he says, “and the question is who was running the show? Was it the Afghans or the Americans? If you’ve ever seen Western forces alongside foreign forces, there’s never a question about who’s in charge.” Doran says even if there is no conclusive evidence of direct American participation, the U.S. troops are still responsible
for tragedies that occur under their watch. “*f they’re going to be involved, they need to answer for this. By law,” he says.

While the extent of U.S. participation is still debatable, the evidence pointing to mass-scale executions is piling up.

Boston-based Physicians for Human Rights sent an investigative team in January and a forensics team to Afghanistan the following month. ** “We spoke to an NGO staff person who was an eyewitness to three large container trucks being backed into Sherberghan, which was being bulldozed,”** PHR consultant John Heffernan says. “There he saw a number of Northern Alliance soldiers, holding their arms up to their noses, indicating a bad
smell.”

“There was certainly evidence of skeletal remains and clothing and bulldozer tracks,” he says. PHR’s forensics experts were later “able to conduct a thorough assessment – without exhuming the bodies – that these were fresh remains.” The organization compiled a report on their findings ** from two alleged mass graves ** and submitted it to the U.S. State Department, the Department of Defense and British government officials. They also sent a letter to President Karzai. “Our main focus was the protection of the sites so that the evidence yielded was not destroyed,”
says Heffernan. “We didn’t get any response from the people in the States or in England.”

In May, the U.N. exhumed 15 bodies and performed autopsies on three from a test trench. ** They concluded that the three had died from suffocation and that the victims were ethnically Pashtun, indicating that they were more than likely Taliban. But the U.N. has not released any statement or
announced a course of action.**

However, the human rights groups who are committed to taking action may be getting in the way of justice, as well.

“I’ve noticed in the last week, a rivalry kicking in,” says Doran, who has been contacted by several government officials, human rights groups and NGOs. They’re each claiming,“‘We want to do the grave,’ ‘No, we want to do the grave.’ Yet none of them are ensuring the safety (of the graves),” says an angry and frustrated Doran.

Heffernan agrees there is an urgent need for immediate action, be it exhuming the graves or ensuring their protection.

“PHR thinks it’s essential that an accountability mechanism be a truth
commission or a tribunal,” he says. “Whatever will facilitate
reconciliation and recovery so that this stuff doesn’t happen again.”

Genevieve Roja is an associate editor at AlterNet.

Again, Ibrahim floods to prevent my response.

[quote]
Originally posted by TOMASSO:
Again, Ibrahim floods to prevent my response.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: Tomasso my man, I was thinking you had better sense than this! oh well, but remember ** when one becomes dishonest, it is not worth dealing with them. **

when you can post this response, i see no reason why you cannot respond and making such a statement only reveals your fear.

I started this thread to compile all such events not just to discuss, so you will get alot more as time passes , God willing.

You presume too much, Ibrahim. In addition, it seems highly suspect that, to every post I write, a refutation by you is done on almost each and every point. A hypocrite is one who openly is aware of a point and by action or deed contradicts himself. Misinformation cannot be a base for hypocritical thinking or action. I have often posted my opinion on the actions of Israelis vis-a-vis the Palestinians. However, when the Arabs went to war against Israel, it played to the Israelis advantage, after that conflict temporarily ceased. The very flawed imposition of the state of Israel by the UN and the US is of knowledge to me. Indeed, this was opposed by high ranking elements in the Truman administration, but to no avail. I read socialist counterpoint news sometimes, too. The fact that you referred to this type of a site was surprising. Do not assume I know nothing of Islam, from many sources, including this board. I focus on quotes, not commentary.
America did not need to invent terrorists. Their foreign policy and some aspects of the secular part of the US may have, indirectly. The assertation that bio labs have no dual use capability is wrong. The very same factories used for the most humanitarian of medical service can very easily be put to malevolent ends. Do a search, it is so. Cuba, very rightly, was looked at because of it's pioneering infrastructure in medicine. The Western firms have sold these awful capabilites to Iraq and had the UN cover up the names of same. Rolf Ekeus stated openly on a TV docu. This I do not dispute.
America has a Christian component and history, but it does not act in the name of Christianity. It has protected Chritianity, but not commited terror under it's banner, officially. There is a difference. The 20th century has seen more terrorism done by Muslims, Jews and Hindus than by any group of Christians.
Your explanation of Islamic military ethos and history is quite good. It is what I imagined to be the case. Excellent bit of info. I don't think the use of the term bigot applies to one who misquotes and misunderstands Islamic verse fits. They merely argue incorrectly.
Arabs, by thinking they could defend the Palestinians and not being able to do so, gave rise to a situation whereby the Palestinians were between the rocks of Jordan and the deep blue sea. Their treatment by the Arabs cannot be defended, except for the forlorn hope of eventual, complete victory for the Palestinians against the Israelis. I have read many comments by Muslims that more than a few Arabs are arrogant and racist. In yesterdays Arab News was a story of the terrible attitude shown to African Muslims. This included the old line that they breed like crazy.
It is difficult to imagine the Arabs completely cow-towing to the West. The West may have some influence, but not total control of these regimes.

Oh, I failed to mention my distaste at your accusation of my dishonesty. The ability for me to respond to the "best" of my ability has some basis in frame of mind, the time to do so and having a logical, effective response. If I post to keep a thread active and on top with minimal retort, it is done for that very reason.

[quote]
Originally posted by TOMASSO:
Ibrahim, the world does not hate Muslims because they are monotheistic, but where some Muslims take it from there.
[/quote]

Then, why are Muslims being persecuted more than anyone else ? Long question.. the topic might get sidetracked..let's move on the next question.

[quote]
** I have no doubt that the invading Muslims were barbaric towards India, as were those who conquered before them.
[/quote]
**

So, why is it that even after ** about 1000 years of Muslim Rule, India is ONLY about 15% Muslim. **

[quote]
**
The Hindus were never completely subdued and their culture survives.
[/quote]
**

Probably, that's why the Hindus had to wait for the ** Muslims to GIVE A NAME to their religion.

"Hind" is an Arabic word. "Hindi", "Hindu" etc all come from it. **

I had asked another Hindu to show me any Indian text older than a 1000 years, that contained the word "Hind" or "Hindu".

It was in the ** 19th CENTURY during the Britsh Rule ** that the word ** "Hindu" was used EXCLUSIVELY to refer to a religious group. **

[quote]
**
The Hindus are as aware of the threat Islam poses to them as Muslims are aware of the threat from the West.
[/quote]
**

Yea, for a 1000 years when the Muslims were ruling, Hindus remained so naiive, and then all of a sudden in the last 50 years, they 've started to perceive all sorts of threats.

[quote]
** How do you rectify finding and killing the Kafir with the admonition of no compulsion in religion?
[/quote]
**

Care to elaborate please? (You are guilty of using the deceptive techniques of the missionaries).

[quote]
**
Did Islam not take into consideration the history of India regarding conquest of it, previously?

[/quote]
**

First, of all, give me any historical Indian text with containing the word "Hindu".

Besides, that what consideration are you talking about ? The consideration of the Spanish Inquisition? Or the Consideration of the "White Man" toward those sub-human black non-Christians who were taken half way around the globe as slaves.

[quote]
Originally posted by TOMASSO:
The 20th century has seen more terrorism done by Muslims, Jews and Hindus than by any group of Christians
[/quote]

Ok, which group of Muslims has raped 50,000 Christian women and engraved crescents on their bodies?

None, but the ** Serbs ** raped over 50,000 Muslim, and would engrave crosses on their bodies (** thus they did it because they were , should I say, "Christian Terrorists" ? )

Russians raped 60,000 Muslim women in Chechnya.

American terrorism is too well known to even begin examining it.

and the list goes on...

[quote]
Originally posted by Khoon-e-Shaheed:
** Ok, which group of Muslims has raped 50,000 Christian women and engraved crescents on their bodies?

None, but the ** Serbs ** raped over 50,000 Muslim, and would engrave crosses on their bodies (** thus they did it because they were , should I say, "Christian Terrorists" ? )

Russians raped 60,000 Muslim women in Chechnya.

American terrorism is too well known to even begin examining it.

and the list goes on...

**
[/quote]

pakistani army exceeded all of the rest put toghether in bangaldesh,

[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
** pakistani army exceeded all of the rest put toghether in bangaldesh,
**
[/quote]

Yea, in a matter of few days, they exceeded others in what took them years !!!

Pure Hindu logic.

If Muslims have in mind global domination, through any means, they will then find themselves up against resistence. As of now, mass persecution of Muslims by the West, has yet to occur. US support to Israel's heavy-handeness towards the Palestinians is accepted as unacceptable. Saddam threatened many in the Gulf, including the country containing your two holy sites. The US aided Muslims in Afganistan and when the Serbs were in a position to commit genocide, the UN stepped in. It was somewhat late in Bosnia/Herzogovena due to Russian concerns. The US actually aided the Mujahadin and paved the way somewhat for their activities in Bosnia, China and Georgia. The US has not always been on the wrong side of Muslims on every count.

IT is interesting to read that there is only a 15% Muslim composition of population in India. If this is so, why are the Hindutvus so nervous about the Muslims there? India has been seen to be able to keep it's borders, relatively intact. The Vedic religion existed before the Muslim "conquest" of India, if the Arabs termed them Hindu, that's understandable. We call our natives Indians, incorrectly.
My comment on Kufir slaughter was very much answered by Ibrahim, above.
Islam, has explicit directions with regard to the treatment of conversion, military matters and the cultures of peoples encountered. Christianity does not. Christianity also does not instruct one to do the many things done in it's name. This is the difference. The Inquisition, the Jewish pograms, the Crusades or any bad manners by missionaries. For this reason, I do not, necessarily hold Islam responsible for the actions of those acting wrongly today. It must be said that today does contain much different circumstances than the invasion of India. Originally, the Muslims may have operated according to the "book". Subsequent invaders may have disregarded the "book".
I do not hold all white men responsible for slavery, either. Indeed, one of my ancestors was an abolitionist activist.
The Serbs were as much concerned about nationalism as religion. I am not in support of their attrocities, but they may have foreseen Islamic insurgents coming to them, as in Russia. Those who suffered by the Serbs were admittedly not a threat, however.
My main concern is to try to see the world with truthful eyes. I reject the lies of any source. And there are many.