Inhumane actions that create religious tensions

Ibrahim, the world does not hate Muslims because they are monotheistic, but where some Muslims take it from there. I have no doubt that the invading Muslims were barbaric towards India, as were those who conquered before them. The Hindus were never completely subdued and their culture survives. The Hindus are as aware of the threat Islam poses to them as Muslims are aware of the threat from the West. How do you rectify finding and killing the Kafir with the admonition of no compulsion in religion? Did Islam not take into consideration the history of India regarding conquest of it, previously?

[This message has been edited by TOMASSO (edited July 04, 2002).]

" Say: 'O my people! Do whatever ye can: I will do (my part): soon will ye
know who it is whose end will be (best) in the Hereafter: certain it is that the
wrong- doers will not prosper.'" {Quran; 6:135}

"Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!" (Quran; 99:7)

"And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it!" (Quran; 99:8)

Ibrahim says : hello rvikz, still sleeping ??? or you want to prove to us that you are too blind to see what is so CLEAR to see???

All the reports indicate of preplanned actions where the hindu government has taken part in the slaughter , not some incident which took place in the heat of the moment.

Sheez, ! earlier you tried to claim Hinduism teaches equality of all religions and I see No answer to my questions as to where it teaches such things at http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/005452.html

now you claim , the hindutva schemes are savagery? And they keep saying they are passive people

Ibrahim says: hello we are not talking about politics or history but about religion, the issue here is ethnic cleansing done under the name of God that is creating the hate . The posts I have made above are incidents that are taking place now, you are witness to these events . You know for a fact that Hindus have committed a heinous crime against the minority Muslims, yet you try to point the finger at the Russian, Chinese and Pakistanis for a crime that apparently you condone from the way you try to evade the issue.

My point being, Hinduism is based on falsehood and even though you cannot show validity for its practices, you condone its crime against Muslims, whilst denying the TRUTH, .

Now get help, you can run all you want but there is no escape from death and be sure you will not be reincarnating into an animal after that.

Regards
Ibrahim

** the suffering that comes from an error is created to deflect us back to the correct path **

[quote]
Originally posted by TOMASSO:
Ibrahim, the world does not hate Muslims because they are monotheistic, but where some Muslims take it from there.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says in other words the world is hypocritical as you are, when it comes to their/your beliefs .

Now tell me in which religion, some don’t take their faith where they want and why are they not being assaulted as Islam and Muslims are being assaulted by the Hindiu-judeo- Christian alliance and their rape of Islam and Muslims. ?

[quote]
I have no doubt that the invading Muslims were barbaric towards India, as were those who conquered before them.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: You have no doubt???, tell me where you a witness to this events? Or you will dictate what happened as per your whims and fancies right?

[quote]
The Hindus were never completely subdued and their culture survives.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: why would the Muslims need to subdue the Hindus when they had no need to ? In fact the Muslims rulers have tried to accommodate them and their faith by mixing their culture with Islam which is evident from the rulers practices.

[quote]
The Hindus are as aware of the threat Islam poses to them as Muslims are aware of the threat from the West.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : and what threat will that be?

[quote]
How do you rectify finding and killing the Kafir with the admonition of no compulsion in religion?
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: tell me who told you Islam teaches to kill kafirs?

[quote]
Did Islam not take into consideration the history of India regarding conquest of it, previously?
[/quote]

Ibrahim says; hello, we are talking about religion, so stay on the topic of religion and don’t mix history or what rulers of India may or may not have done in the past.

The point being , this thread is about what is causing the religious tensions at the present.

Now let me refresh your memory the Anglo-American devils are supporting the Israeli devils in subjugating the Palestinians ( because they are Muslims) who had lived in that land before you ever came into being. Now if you have any honesty in you, tell me IF you will allow me to enter your house and throw you out and abuse your family as I wish.

If you will not accept such things don’t expect others to accept them either. And if you cannot be just, don’t waste your time at the religion forum, I am not chasing you out, but hey , only TRUTH matters in this forum and apparently you don’t seem to have the sincerity to face it.

Regards
Ibrahim

** it is following the path of least resistance that makes rivers and some people crooked**

http://www.islamonline.org/English/News/2002-05/29/article24.shtml

Knesset Approves 13 Million Shekels For Colonial Settlements

** Israeli settlers control nearly half of Palestinian territories through strategic placement colonial settlements**

OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, May 29 (IslamOnline & News Agencies) – The Finance Committee of the Knesset, the Israeli parliament, on Tuesday, May 28, approved the transfer of 13 million Israeli shekels (U.S. $2.7 million) for settlement expenses.

Israeli daily newspaper, Ha’aretz, reported Wednesday, May 29, that 7 million shekels would be used for the construction of 14 housing units in the territories, 3 million for the development of infrastructure in the Tel Zion settlements, and 3 million for the construction of six housing units in the Golan Heights.

Earlier in May, the Israeli government approved the construction of nearly 1,000 new houses in colonial settlements near Jerusalem, a move which triggered protests from left-wing and Palestinian groups.

The 957 proposed houses, within established communities, will expand five settlements to cover for what the government described as the “natural growth” of the existing population, Agence France-Presse (AFP) reported.

** According to AFP, more than 200,000 settlers live in about 160 settlements, built following the 1967 war, in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. In addition to that number, there are a dozen settlements in annexed east Jerusalem. **

Despite the approval of the unprecedented number of homes, the left-wing Labor party did not oppose it. This is because the settlements are in an area which both left-wing Labor and its right-wing coalition partner, Likud, agree should not be affected by a final accord with the Palestinians, AFP said.

Defending the establishment of more settlements, Ezra Rosenfeld, spokesman for the Settlers’ Council, said that most of these units will be in areas over which there is consensus among the parties, adding that an additional 1,000 homes would make “no difference politically,” AFP reported.

On May 14, a detailed new map of the West Bank, released by the B’Tselem center for human rights in the occupied Palestinian territories, shows that Israeli settlers exert control over nearly half of Palestinian territories through a strategic placement of a few Jewish colonial settlements.

The study shows that the Jewish settlements occupy 1.7 percent of the West Bank territory, where Palestinians want to create their own state. This was based on previously unpublished documents collected from Israeli municipal officials over the past nine months.

Through a controversial policy overseen by the defense ministry, Israel has also set up special buffer zones around the settlements from which Palestinians are barred - and where new colonial settlements may be established, the report said.

These zones make up 41.9 percent of the West Bank’s territory according to the B’Tselem survey. They further splinter the West Bank into segments and isolate major Palestinian towns.

“This is not a coincidence – this is the intended government policy,” said B’Tselem executive director Jessica Montell.

The B’Tselem study shows the settlement population doubling since the 1993 Oslo accords that established the Palestinian Authority, reaching some 380,000 people.

“The location of these settlements impedes the creation of territorial continuity of the Palestinian state,” said the study’s author, Yehezkel Lein.

“This makes it impossible to establish a Palestinian state that has anything resembling a viable economy.”

** Last month, the UN Human Rights Commission (UNHCR) adopted a resolution expressing grave concern at continuing Israeli settlement activities, including the expansion of existing settlements.**

** “All these actions are illegal, constitute a violation of the Geneva Convention relative to these protection of civilians in time of war and are a major obstacle to peace,” the resolution said.**

ibrahim palestinian-israel is not religious issue it is fight over land.

Ibrahim,
You have conveniently forgotten the atrocities of Iraqis and Turks over the Kurds.

The extra-judicial killings in Pakistan, Afghanistan and north Africa.

Though killing of innocents anywhere for any Cause is not accepted, at the same time do not think the whole of muslim world is as white paper.

If you think rationally, it will be clear to you about the irrationality of the some Muslims have landed them in trouble, more than the foreigners.

Quote:

ibrahim palestinian-israel is not religious issue it is fight over land.

Very much true RVIKZ!
Not only palestinian but also Kashmir, chechnya etc. are because of land. Do you think that Pakistan is supporting Kashmiris for the sake of Islam! That's a joke. It is plain and simple, Pakistan wants beautiful kashmir and India will not part with its jewel.

These religion and other crap are brought up by mullah's in all the religions to make gain political mileage.

[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
ibrahim palestinian-israel is not religious issue it is fight over land.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : rvikz STOP being silly and get help. The whole fight is about establishing their temple on the location where the Muslims Mosques are. And in order to achieve that they with the help of the Christians need to strangle the current occupants and force them by hook or crook out of this region, which is what they are doing with the support of ignorant and arrogant across the board who talk nonsense and blindly turn the eye against this inhumane injustice done in the name of religion.

BTW you did not respond to the issues I raised about the hindu menace in India.

The Fourth of July
A Day to Celebrate Courage, Honor, and Commitment to Truth

** FOR SHAME:**

** How can one even vision such a horror as this! Imagine your family, guests at a five day wedding party in an rural village, attacked by American Gunships with Gattling guns and huge cannons deigned to kill tanks. ** Two or more flying battleships circle over you at point blank range, blasting you in the dark… Ground spotters have your wedding party pinpointed with laser devices. You can not escape weapons that can see you in the dark, nor can your wife and children, dressed in their best for a wedding ..crying…dying everywhere. ** After three hours it it finally stops. **

Forty dead, mostly women and children, blown into pieces, and a hundred are wounded. ** Is no one responsible? What is our leaders’ excuse; what does our high tech military say? **

The 4th of July Celebrations goes on. Official reports are concocted, they claim the Americans “came under fire.” (days before) “Rifles were fired in the air” (fourth of July celebration style, and hours before the attack). Big guns were known to be present (but mysteriously disappeared).

** Our own American liars, our own cowards, in uniform and in office, on Independence day! For shame, the stories leak…the stories reek… nobody is to blame…where is the Honor?**

Are you aware your dollar is collapsing against every currency in the world? Do you know why, and what this means? Will you understand why after your IRA is trashed, after your job is gone, after you Medicare fails? Think about it, ask if you don’t know.

We are including a story of the terror at the wedding feast from a European sources that is partisan, often critical of the US, sometimes hostile. ** But know that the rest of the world is becoming increasingly hostile. We do not guaranty every detail, but much of it has a ring of truth. Read it critically, but read it!** Editor- C. E. Carlson (who served not once but twice in the US Army)

Ask what you can do! We Hold These Truths (www.whtt.org)

BTW you did not respond to the issues I raised about the hindu menace in India
ibrahim

it is real and scary

http://www.telegraphindia.com/national.htm

RIOTERS RAZE GHAZAL PIONEER’S TOMB
FROM BASANT RAWAT Ahmedabad, March 24:

The miles that separate Afghanistan and Ahmedabad did not prevent a rerun of Bamiyan during the Gujarat riots.

The tomb of Vali Gujarati, the 17th century Urdu poet widely regarded as the pioneer of ghazals, was among the cultural and historical milestones demolished by the rioters, much like the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas by the Taliban. “Vali Gujarati was part of Ahmedabad culture. The destruction of his tomb is a barbaric cultural assault which we writers have condemned and demand that the tomb is rebuilt,” said noted Gujarati writer Manishi Jani.

Former Prime Minister I.K. Gujral, too, expressed shock at the demolition of Vali Gujarati’s tomb and called for its restoration during his visit to the city about a fortnight ago. Urdu poet Jayant Parmar, who criticised the “shocking” destruction, feels that the government should build a memorial in place of the tomb. Vali’s works were translated into French in 1833, the first ever Indian work to have been translated abroad. The marble tomb with a marble canopy had survived a series of riots since 1969.

In a swift operation, the Congress-ruled Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation removed the rubble, leaving no traces of the tomb.

** Mayor Himatsinh Patel, however, denied AMC bulldozers, cranes and rollers were used in the demolition. **

“It was a mob act, we do know where they got equipment to pull down the structures,” said Patel.

Several mosques and tombs, including two historical monuments, were damaged during the carnage. The Muhafiz Khan Masjid in Gheekanta and the small stone mosque in Isanpur area, protected by the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI), have been damaged.

Superintending archaeologist R. Gahlot said while the Muhafiz Khan Masjid was “reparable”, the Isanpur mosque that was repaired just seven years ago was beyond restoration. Built in the 15th century during the rule of Mohammad Begda, this three-domed mosque was also known as Gumte Masjid. ** Independent legislator Usman Devdiwala said as many as 125 mosques and dargahs, including 43 in the city, had been razed to the ground. **

In many places, including Vali’s tomb,** flags and idols were installed by the “demolition squad”,** which were removed only after the state government came under fire. Vali’s tomb was renamed “Godharia Hanuman temple”. Following the vandalism, the ASI has written to collector K. Sreenivas and police commissioner P.C. Pande and submitted a list of protected monuments in the city.

The Ahmedabad Sunni Muslim Wakf Committee has also submitted a list of 53 monuments to the National Human Rights Commission, many of them defaced, two of them already knocked down by the mob. Not all of these monuments are listed with the ASI or the state archaeological department.

it looks like one big hindu version of wahabism taking place in gujarat.

[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
it looks like one big hindu version of wahabism taking place in gujarat.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : rvikz, STOP trying to point the finger at others . And know for sure one day someone will exact retribution for what the evil hindus in india are doing to the innocent in that country.

BTW, there is no such religion or faith or sect as wahabism, get help.

may be you should
visit other states not just rely on papers
about the communal relations. just visit
and see how people of both community
go about living side by side.

[quote]
Originally posted by rvikz:
may be you should visit other states not just rely on papers about the communal relations. just visit and see how people of both community go about living side by side.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: maybe you are still unable to understand that the evil hindu killers/murders/rapists were trucked in from other states and not only from gujrat.

checked out RSS/BJP/VHP scoundrels and its works in all states to know how they were organised for this event .

I did visit one other state and know first hand how they are living in fear, of what next can dawn upon them in the future

Salaam Aleykum Brothers and sisters

This article is sickening and shows the implications of ideologically
following secularism, which is what seems to be happening in Turkey these
days, with grave consequences for the muslim ummah in turkey.

Turkish hospital denies treatment to patient wearing headscarf
2002-07-04 18:56:28

Ummahnews
4 July 2002

Turkish humans rights organisations have announced that they are to take
Istanbul University Hospital`s administrators to court over the death of 72
year old Medine Ercan last week.

Hospital administrators at the hospital had denied the seriously ill lady
life-saving dialysis because they insisted the frail lady reproduce her
medical card but without a head scarf.

The act, which is said to be in direct contravention of the Geneva
Declaration, came as a result of a decision made by the University
Chancellor only a few weeks earlier. The university hospital became the
first hospital in Turkey to deny treatment to any women simply for wearing a
head scarf on their medical card.

Hospital doctors were forced to turn the lady away, despite her grave
condition, as they feared repercussions from the administration if they
treated her.

The Britain-based medical charity Doctors Worldwide has also urged the
Turkish Government “to intervene and halt this draconian and ultimately
fatal decision made by the University”.

Ibrahim, I do post with truthfullness and sincerity. I am not a hypocrit, but you post from a socialist website, not very Islamic of you. My counter-point to your claim that Islam is hated due to it's monotheistic nature stands. The terrorists have taken a large step and have attacked the US quite violently. In recent history, actors and nations involved with religion/terror have been the Israelis, Palestinians and Muslim terrorists and Indians. The current alliance is more properly described as Judeo-Hindu-Protestant.
The above article posted by rvikz, written by Gautier well illustrates the atrocities done by invading Muslim armies. Ghazni was the leader of this type of invader. The law of averages is against your sanitary point of view. It is documented that some Muslim rulers were quite accomodating, but the Mughals tended to be a bit much. These were the former Mongols, who converted to Islam, not Mohammad's army.
There is a plausible threat from the West when it wishes to influence or change the political/religious makeup of Islam. Even if Islam does speak against western ideas, the west should accept this, while squelching terror attacks.
I have read quotes here that speak of the admonishment to "kill and slay them, where ye find them". This quote, even with the following instructions seems incongruous to that which states, "there shall be no compulsion in religion". Even if this was meant for the Kafir Arabs, how can it be justified?
Yes, this thread is about religion and in your part of the world that encompasses a great deal of subjects.
I do not support every action taken by US foreign policy or Israel's history of state terror. The arrogant Arabs have much to be responsible fot the Palestinian's plight, too. They were sure they could guarantee victory to Palestine, but could not.
There are some points of disagreement between us, but it is not completely so. You, most likely have animosity towards me because I am American. I am aware that this might be the case when I first started posting here. After being a part of this forum, much knowledge has come my way. The desire to see more of the story than was convenionally available was my aim. Many claims made by Muslims about Israelis and the US are true. The lack of real truth about Israel in the US is infuriating, to say the least. You will not notice any personal attacks made by me regarding you in my posts. Your statement to others to get help is overused, BTW. Keep it on the level.

It would seem the Turkish authorities placed more accurate identification over medical need in the above mentioned instance. A truly modern state is tolerant of religious tradition. These draconian measures to restrict freedom to follow one's faith to the extreme are beyond decency. These comments are made by a western, non-Muslim poster.

[quote]
Originally posted by TOMASSO:
Ibrahim, I do post with truthfullness and sincerity. I am not a hypocrit,
[/quote]

Ibrahim says Dear Tomasso , I believe you! But, I still think you practice hypocrisy not because you want to be a hypocrite but due to being misinformed .

because you feel Israel has a right to take the property of the Palestinians, which by any human standards would be absurd but because you believe in the Bible , it seems OK to you, since If someone took away your home and threw you out, because they had lived in that region before ( native Indians ) , you will cry foul.

[quote]
but you post from a socialist website, not very Islamic of you.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: For God’s sakes, I am posting articles written from a broad spectrum, by doing this I am establishing that this articles are not written by Muslims in favor of themselves. BTW Where did you learn what is Islamic ?

[quote]
My counter-point to your claim that Islam is hated due to it's monotheistic nature stands.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says my reply also stands.

[quote]
The terrorists have taken a large step and have attacked the US quite violently.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says what terrorists ? the ones invented by the Americans? Or the innocent ones that have disappeared from Afghanistan? Did you forget the same Americans bombed a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan some time back claiming it was a factory producing chemical weapons? and have destroyed Iraq claiming there are producing weapons of mass destruction when all the weapons are mostly made in the states, who is selling them and who is using them except the Americans and it allies?

[quote]
In recent history, actors and nations involved with religion/terror have been the Israelis, Palestinians and Muslim terrorists and Indians. The current alliance is more properly described as Judeo-Hindu-Protestant.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : man you need help! Please enlighten us as to the Muslim terrorists and also about the Christian terrorists . Before you do, tell us from what time frame to what time frame is recent history? After that I will give you the works on when the American Christians have terrorized which country.

[quote]
I have read quotes here that speak of the admonishment to "kill and slay them, where ye find them". This quote, even with the following instructions seems incongruous to that which states, "there shall be no compulsion in religion". Even if this was meant for the Kafir Arabs, how can it be justified?
[/quote]

Ibrahim says : Imagine a directive is given to the army to fight a war ( meaning the enemy had to be killed wherever they are) , would that directive apply all the time or will it seize to exist the moment the war is over?

See that was not too hard to understand, was it?

so what you and the bigots keep quoting is the verse where God approved and gave the command to destroy the pagans since they have breached their agreement over and over again.

Thus the commander gave the order to kill them where ever they are found but once they have been driven out and the House of God had been purified , why would this command be in force?

Thus the command “let there be no compulsion in religion” is the STANDING order for all times. But when war is declared , than whatever the new command is given by the commander will come onto force for the duration of the war.

[quote]
The arrogant Arabs have much to be responsible fot the Palestinian's plight, too.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says huh? Why would the Arabs be responsible for the crimes of the Judea Christians? And how and when did they become arrogant?

[quote]
They were sure they could guarantee victory to Palestine, but could not.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: apparently you only know the history based on what you have been taught but have failed to notice when the Anglo Americans were supporting the Israelis to establish their criminal state called Israel in Palestine, you don’t suppose they just left without backing them up all the way do you? So The Arabs failed because they were secretly backed by the Anglo -Americans. Even now they are secretly backed and all these atrocities are done in collaboration with the Anglo- Americans .

[quote]
You, most likely have animosity towards me because I am American. I am aware that this might be the case when I first started posting here.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says don’t be naïve, I consider all people my brethren ( because that is the truth, immaterial of faith or creed) and do not divide according to nationality. I only divide according to truth and untruth, so long as you accept the truth, I will love you but once you deny the truth, I will avoid you not hate you! For the Islamic laws is avoidance not vengeance or retaliation.