India's battings-Brilliant or flat track bullies?

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1

Indians love to talk about having the best top 6 in the world, but how often to they perform in non favourable conditions-this win against England was the first time in ages (ever?) India had secured a lead of over 400 and won, and a rare overseas victory for the team. There away records are by and large sh*t, bar Sachin who is genius, and they have a chronic problem against both pace and short pitched bowling. Ganguly is comical if facing a genuine paceman-and Laxman too struggles against the moving ball and pace. The host of openers they have tried are nothing to write home about-save Sehwag who has so far impressed-but Jaffer, Das and the other clowns are not test standard. They are similar to Jacob Martin!

If the batting is so good why cant they win outsdie India more then once a blue moon, secure a series win perhaps?

Instantly the averages sub 45 indicate a “nothing special” player-so Ganguly-whom I dont rate at all- is just hype as if laxman-ave 41 and 43 respectively. Given that Indians talk about the 2 as “legends” -thats funny.

Ganguly’s record against good bowling sides:

Australia: 29
Pakistan: 34
SA: 25

Laxman too fares similarly:

Pakistan: 23
Australia: 56
SA: 28
His 56 V Australia pans out as 36 IN Australia and massively at home!

I rate Dravid and Sachin, but back up your argument. A rare win and your off, and as for “pak tok 6 wjts to beat Kenya”-

NEWSFLASH-India lost to Kenya twice recently!

Your top 6 par se is distinctly average, only 2 stand out-and that does not make you the best top 6 in the world. Note too that Pakisdtan beat you most the time, so our top order scores more runs then yours! :smiley:

2

Very true indeed.
Ehsan bhai it would be appreciative if you can move the posts regarding Pakistani and Indian batsmans into this thread.
Indians very over rated.
Good batting every once in a while but rest of the time major flop.

3

And they have bowlers like Raju. :b

4

Guys, just wait till the world cup and then we'll see what this "star-studded" Indian batting could do for their country. Last WC they did exceptionaly well to make it to the top-six. This time they have tougher task ahead since teams like NZ, Lanka have started producing decent bowlers too.

Word is that Wahtmore has started feeding meat to his bowlers and as a result they have suddenly speed in thei ranks too!!!

As for Pak- Hopefully they will sort out their off-the-field problems by the WC and the team will be raring to kick butts.....

5

ok..lets play by your rule.Lets assume that scoring on flat wickets and weak sides doesnt count.though I can always argue that if scoring against weak side and falt wickets is so easy then why not anyone else scores so easily.

Anyway coming back to topic.Lets play accoridng to your rule.you concluded that Saurav and Laxman(though you carefully discounted laxaman;s run scored in India) are ordinary since there average is not good against quality bowling attack ( like AUS,SA & PAK).Going by this logic whichever player doesnt score good against "quality" attack is a lousy player. So here are few more lousy ones...

Yousuf Youhana
vs AUS 28
vs SA 03

Inzimam

vs AUS 37

vs SA 32

Ooops... looks like no team has quality batsman !!!!!

6

Indian batting is ONLY good when bowling is bad. They might be good at nets, too.

7

I have to agree here with Mo_best.
Statistically Indian batsmans are only good for scoring runs at home but away there averages are nothing to shout about.
No one in here is saying that Pakistani batsmans are the best in the world, we don’t brag about their records against weak teams.
But in perspective lets take the Australian bowling attack and put it against Pakistani and Indian batsman in the fast pitches of Australia.
And here is the comaprison.

Sachin Tendulkur avg vs Aus in Aus 46.14 Very good indeed. :k:

]Rahul “The Wall” Dravid vs Aus in Aus](http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/sdb/sdb_player.pl?playerid=2281&class=testplayer&filter=basic&team=0&opposition=AUS&notopposition=0&season=0&homeaway=0&continent=0&country=AUS&notcountry=0&groundid=0&startdefault=1996-06-20&start=1996-06-20&enddefault=2002-08-26&end=2002-08-26&tourneyid=0&finals=0&daynight=0&toss=0&scheduledovers=0&scheduleddays=0&innings=0&result=0&followon=0&seriesresult=0&captain=0&keeper=0&dnp=0&recent=&viewtype=aro_list&runslow=&runshigh=&batposition=0&dismissal=0&bowposition=0&ballslow=&ballshigh=&bpof=0&overslow=&overshigh=&conclow=&conchigh=&wicketslow=&wicketshigh=&dismissalslow=&dismissalshigh=&caughtlow=&caughthigh=&caughttype=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1(http://statserver.cricket.org/perl/sdb/sdb_player.pl?playerid=2024&class=testplayer&filter=basic&team=0&opposition=AUS&notopposition=0&season=0&homeaway=0&continent=0&country=AUS&notcountry=0&groundid=0&startdefault=1996-06-20&start=1996-06-20&enddefault=2002-08-26&end=2002-08-26&tourneyid=0&finals=0&daynight=0&toss=0&scheduledovers=0&scheduleddays=0&innings=0&result=0&followon=0&seriesresult=0&captain=0&keeper=0&dnp=0&recent=&viewtype=aro_list&runslow=&runshigh=&batposition=0&dismissal=0&bowposition=0&ballslow=&ballshigh=&bpof=0&overslow=&overshigh=&conclow=&conchigh=&wicketslow=&wicketshigh=&dismissalslow=&dismissalshigh=&caughtlow=&caughthigh=&caughttype=0&stumpedlow=&stumpedhigh=&csearch=&submit=1) 29.50 :nook:

VVS Laxman avg vs Aus in Aus 36.83

With the exception of Sachin, none of the Indian batsmans are world class performers against quality attacks on quality pitches.

Here are some of the Pakistani performers.

Saeed Anwar avg vs Aus in Aus 47

Inzimam-ul-Haq avg vs Aus in Aus 41

Yousuf Youhana avg vs Aus in Aus 34.5

By looking at that most of the Pakistani batsman are better players in foreign conditions against quality attacks.

8

Actually No one can beat YOYO’s Avg against South Africa in SA - :hehe:

9

The australian batters never played the australian bowling attack... ;)

10

Dear,
As I said earlier ..Care fully Choosen Data can always fool others. Why choose Australian attack only.Lets look at another godo bolwing Side South Africa.. and here is performance of leading batsmen from India and pPak against SA in SA.

Laxman : 47
ganguly : 25
Dravid : 42
Sachin:42
Sehwag : 49

youhana :03
Inzimam :24
Saeed Anwar : 34

Ooops.. looks like there is real difference… !!!

lets put all the data together …



                             vs AUS                      vs SA
                              in AUS                     in SA
Laxman                      36                            47
Ganguly                      29                           25
Dravid                        15                          42
Sachin                         46                         42
Sehwag                                                   49

Youhana                     34                           03
Inzimam                     47                           24
Saeed Anwar               41                          34

:wink:

11

One thing I dont understand is why these people are not willing to consider their batsmen’s (And ours too) overall batting record against Good bowling teams like Aus,SA etc. ?

Do you folks suggest that McGrath and Co. are no good outside Australia or SA ? If they are no good then why cant your super talented batsmen score against them in their home grounds ??

Those who think Ganguly cant bat against Aus/SA in their hood - Check out his ODI performance, Well I guess they must be allowing Gangs to score runs in ODIs so that we can defend him on this forum :hehe:
(Dont forget to check Dravid’s record as well)

Also Check out Saeed,Inzi, YOYO and others performances against Aus/SA away and you will know the difference :slight_smile:

12

what a pathetic display!!
Youhana played only one match and you are putting up these figures.

why not compare it with a better attack, I presume Australians has had the better bowline lineup than SA.
Since your ever so great Indian batsman are so good why are you chickening out to put it against the Australia.
SA has the third best bowling attack while Aus has the 2nd best bowling attack.

I just showed you but you cowards are reluctant to be put against Australia but going for the weaker attack of the 2 (SA)
ask yourself that question, I showed both teams stastics against Aus

Who said that, if I did please tell me where.
I am the one who is putting up your so called great lineup against Australia but your countryman are chickening out.

We are talking about test matches here but its amazing you people keep going to one days after seeing your so called great batsman’s pathetic average against Aus.
I thought test matches were the real test for the strength of players.
why a sudden change ??

I already showed you and Saeed and Inzi’s average is way better than your god’s average against the best bowling lineup of the 2 quality teams. {Aus)

Its amazing that you are always putting up stats against the Australians but when you were shwon your so called great batsman’s performance, you are now turning back to SA.
and youhana played only one match against SA, it doesn’t count.

13

Counting records against top attacks outside featherbed Asian conditions is the poiunt of this excercise. Scoringf heavily on flat Indian tracks -ala laxman-but failing in fast conditions indicates a poor allround player. Inzi's and co records are not "wow"-but we dont call them the top top 6 in the world do we?

Inzi in Australia is far better then your heros, bar SRT, ave 41 in real testing conditions-and Anwar sparkles. Your guys have boosted records against weak sides and at home-using the argument for home conditions Afridis record against India is awesome by his mediocre standards.

Accept India's averagness or I will be forced to prove it to you.

14

Well - HE had the opportunity to score and he failed and that shows in his avg.

SO you mean to say that your batsmen can score only against Australians and that too just in TESTS ? They cant score against the same bowling attack in ODIs. They also cant score against weaker bowling sides like SA. But One thing I do notice that they have very good batting avg against the fast bowlers of Bangladesh

Am I chickening out ?? No, No chickening out is in your character (Like ATC 1998). You are the one who is chickening out to compare your batsmen’s record in SA,ENG and other Countries. You just want to compare in against Aus and in Aus and only in TESTS. (Because that is where one(or two) of your batsman has better avg. than Dravid/Gangs).And If you compare their record against any other country or ODIs, You will have to face the truth. :hehe:

And who has the best bowling Attack ? Calling Mathew Hayden (Pehle usko out to Karo :hehe: )

Oh oh - Calling names - Someone is frustrated - Anyways, If SA’s attack is weaker then why dont your batsmen score against them ?

I will talk only about Australia - In Australia in TESTS ONLY. Because If I talk about anything else - I will know the facts about my batsmen :hehe:

Did You Say Saeed’ And Inzi’s Avg (WAY) better than Sachin against 2 quality teams (I suppose they are AUS & SA) ???

What a LIE ?? Here you GO
Sachin Against SA (AWAY) - 42.40, Against AUS (AWAY) - 46.14
Saeed Against SA (AWAY) - 34.14, Against AUS (AWAY) - 47.00
INZI Against SA (Away) - 24.80, Against AUS (AWAY) - 41.00

(Forget Sachin, Pehle Dravid se to compare kar lo Inzi,Saeed - Fir Sachin se compare karna)

But why have your great batsmen have not performed against the same Aussies in ODIS or lesser attacks like SA ??

And Dravid was out of form when he toured Australia - That doesn’t count either :), Umpires ne to Sachin ko batting nahin karne diya (Remember Head Before Wicket decision) - See I have more excuses than you. :slight_smile:

15

Yes Please compare the records

Okay Sachin has an Avg of 46.14 in Aus, Inzi has 41 - Obviously Inzi is better :), In SA Sachin has 42.40, Inzi has 24.80 , Inzi is better again. Same is true for ODIs as well.

Go and check your player’s record Vs. Bangladesh, fir baat karna, Talk about scoring against weaker teams :hehe:

Oh !! Once again I see Afridi (next Richards) - Why not check his Avg. against Australia - 8.00, After all India is a weak team .

Ummmm - Like you proved How Inzi’s record is better than Sachin’s :hehe:

16

I dunno guys, Pak’s current batting fiasco away from home makes Indian batsmen look like geniuses. :nook:

17

Using your great theory
Here is the greatest batsman of the 90s against Bangaldesh avg = 18

No one is comapring to weak bowling sides.
Australians have the best bowling that both Pak and India can be put against, to show who is better.

Once again I picked the best bowling lineup both teams can be tested against instead of picking avg bowlers of SA or Eng.
why not pick it against the best opposition.

Then again don’t forget to call Ian Healy, Mark Taylor, mark Waugh, Ravi Shastri, Sunil Gavaskar, Geoffery Boycott, Barry Richards, Tony Greg, Micheal Holding and also ask them the same question.

Real test for the batsman is against a quality attack and Aus is better than the others.

You are the same guy who is always barking about how Pakistan have always been humiliated against Aus in test but when I bring up the same opponent you people start crying.

I said both Inzi and Saeed has better records than your god against the best possible attack and that should be Aus I hope.

Once again I must say test matches are the real test for the batsmans, one day competitions are pinch hitting game, where the batsmans don’t show their true colors as they do in test matches.

Great excuse! :k:
Out of form doesn’t mean anything.
You are judging Youhana’s performance against SA with 2 innings while Dravid played 6 innings in Aus and Tendulkur played more.

18

Asif_K, I do not wish to enter in to a personal attack on you-but if you read my post you'll find that I said :

"..BAR SRT" ie sachin aside, ie Sachin is better, but the rest excluding him.......

Now your whole last post has become useless.

19

Last Time I checked Sachin was an Indian - Why Bar Sachin ?? Agar JAved Miandad ko tum nikal do to Tumhari halat Bangladesh se bhi badtar ho jaayegi :hehe:

20

Last time I checked Pakistan was better than India in both one days and test matches 6 years after Miandad left the team.

Miandad or no Miandad, Pakistan is superior to India.