Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

Indians have really misplaced loyalties and are ashamed to call themselves Indians. I have seen North Indians dont mix with South Indians. Indians mix only with people speaking the same language. Many times people of same caste mix with each other. Unlike Pakistanis, there is no Indian association in US, what they have is Tamil Associaition, Marathi Association, Bengali Association. I am surprised India is still one country…

Misplaced Loyalties and Identity Crisis

As a part of my daily blog reading I was amazed at what I read on GVK’s blog .

This made me reflect on what someone once said to me about the Indian diaspora, which I later realised was true of all Indians.

http://mymysore608.blogspot.com/

A few years ago, my husband and I had organised a large Deepavali party for a large group of our friends in Singapore. The attendees were a mixed lot. There were a handful of Indians, some Chinese, Singaporean, German, Dutch, Pakistani, British, Kiwis and a few other nationalities thrown in for good measure. Halfway through the evening, a Singaporean friend came up to me and said she had a very sensitive question to ask me, and whether we could meet up the following day where she could talk to me about it at leisure. I wondered if someone had said something insensitive (or plain stupid), or whether she didn’t like the food or if we had inadvertently offended her in some way. So the next day we sat down over a cup of coffee, and seeing that she wasn’t too comfortable with whatever was on her mind, I asked her what she wanted to talk about. Her reply shocked me to the core.

“Don’t Indians have a sense of national identity?”

I was shocked. Why would she ask me something like that? I gently prompted her, trying to get to the root of her question. Her reasoning was simple. This was the first time she was meeting a few of the people at the party, and she had asked people where they were from. Our other friends had promptly said Pakistan, Britain, Holland, Germany etc etc. But apparently every one of the Indians had said something like, “I’m from Andhra, (or Karntaka, Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Punjab, Rajasthan as the case may be).”

Her point was rather simple. All one needed to have said was that they were from India. But everyone apparently introduced themselves as denizens of one state or the other. Weren’t we all Indians? Didn’t that matter most to all of us? Why was which part of India we came from more important?

I really didn’t have a reply to that. Like she said our national neighbour never said he was from Baluchistan, he just said he was from Pakistan… Then why the difference in attitude on this side of the border?

I was speechless at that simple piece of logic. I pondered about it for a while and mailed a dear friend who lives in New Jersey. Her response was thought provoking. She said wherever you are join the Kannada sangha, Marathi Mandal, Tamil Sangam, Gujrati Samaj or whatever… Otherwise who will you have to talk to??

Was that true? I thought not. So I asked a friend of mine who was at the party and who had by then lived in Singapore for 15 years. She pointed out that my husband and I had refrained from joining any community/language based associations. Did that make a difference? Of course it did. As she had noticed, the group that had showed up for our little get-together was very mixed, and was very lively. And she said that when one was a member of some of the associations, their circle of acquaintances was comprised mostly of other members. Did not joining any sabha/sanga etc mean we didn’t have anyone else to talk to? Of course not…

Then I cast my net back towards the US. I asked my sister, who was then studying in a university in the deep South, what she thought. She too concurred with my friend in Singapore. She too had not joined any Indian association or any such body. She had a large mixed group friends, Indians, Americans etc… Not being a part of any association didn’t mean she didn’t have anyone to talk to.

I believe that an element of homesickness does occur when one is abroad, and leads one to gravitate towards others from nearer home. That’s not unnatural. What I find unnatural is that once one has found a country cousin(s), one starts to ignore anyone else who makes a gesture of friendship. I found this to be true in Singapore. Most of my Indian friends there were, again, like us, not a member of any group. I have nothing against those who are members of such groups, but it is a certain fact that they are not too comfortable being around others not belonging to their respective groups. There could be a hundred friendly faces around them, but they could not see it, looking for a face from THEIR group.

This morning I called a friend in Tokyo… I asked her the same thing. Did she belong to any group… The answer was yes… Otherwise who will one talk to.

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

I dont think anybody is ashamed to call themselves Indian. Have you seen anybody doing that. Yes they are more than just being Indian. They are also tamilian, andhrites, marathies, gujaraties, punjabies, malayalies, banglies too. Each state has their own culture , language and literature. Its natural that people feel proud of their mother tongue and their state. It is also natural that they tend to go around with the same stock.
When there is a common cause all of us come together. That is what the politicians say, unity in diversity. :)

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

That's very interesting. Particularly when one reads that a third of the population in Singapore is Indian (according to Singapore Airlines promotional video that I saw a couple of days ago). The other 2/3 are apperently Chinese and Malaysian.

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

Yes indeed! Three communities are sure to be find everywhere in the world - Indians, Chinese and Punjabis (Pakistani)!

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

These Indians are called Indians. They have no affection towards India. They are Singaporeans with Indian ethnicity.

The Indians who moved from India in recent years do not mix much with the Indians who moved hundreds of years ago.

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

I think Indians are very humble people and incredibly patriotic. Yes, Indians do keep a close affiliation with their ethnicities but they are still very loyal to their nationality.
Pakistanis on the other hand lack nationalism. There is so much ethnic divide. overseas, many Pakistanis will not help out their fellow countryman. They are always in competition with other Pakistanis to show that they are better. There is such a superiority complex. This is simply fcrom my experience in Toronto, I dont know how it is in other cities. Here Pashtuns, Sindhis, and Balochi Pakistanis tend to stick to themselves and you rarely see them at any Pakistani mehfils. Alot of Urdu speaking people tend to stick with their fellow Karachi-walay. I think most of the interaction amongst Pakistanis is between Urdu-speaking people and Punjabis.

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

^^ topic was about india, how can you defend indian point of view with only ranting about PAkistanis???? is that an argument?

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

That's true, I worked with a high caste Hindu who would not sit at the same table as another low caste one yet he didn't have a problem mingling with white people.

The ethnic divide is also very true, a Pakistani will always refer to himself as a Pakistani, whereas an Indian Sikh will call himself a Punjabi more often than an Indian, sameway people from the south of India always identify to their respective provinces; Kerala or Tamil-Nadu/Madras etc.

The only southerners I've known to refer to themselves as Indian are people from Mumbai.

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

SJToronto there is some truth to what you say, there’s no animosity amongst Pakis and we stick together at schools and colleges but when it comes to bossom friendships I find people hailing from NW Punjab and NWFP tend to socialise with each other and visit each others houses whilst mainland Punjabis (especially urban ones) and Karachites tend to stick toegther.

Mirpuris generally only have bossom friendships with fellow Mirpuris because there’s that many of them.

It’s due to cultural/social differences but I don’t differentiate between Pakistanis, I’m very comfortable speaking Urdu to all of them, and Punjabi and Pashto to the older generations whose Urdu is not so good, I’m multi-talented/multi-cultural/bilingual :snooty:

You know what I’ve noticed, Indian Muslims (Gujaratis) tend to be racist anti-Pak arseholes (even the Mullahs teaching at Dar Ulooms) whilst Bengalis are who have more reason to hate us are Paki-lovers.

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

Mumbai is not in souther india. I am from south india and i am an indian. But many people do identify themselves with their province!

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

Anything South of Vindhyas is considered South India. So Technically Maharashtra is South India. Maharashtra is unique that it’s culturally more toward South, but language wise more toward North (Sanskrit)

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

Indian communities are although different from one another but will continue to co-exist without any difficulty.

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

Everyone is worried about the Indian loyalties "Apnay garaiban main jhanko!" Perhaps we do identify ourselves as Pakistanis but how much Pakistani are we?
Within our communities we are strongly divided as punjabis "hindustanis" ( a label for me because my parents migrated to Pakistan 48 years ago and even though I was born and brought up in Pakistan!) In fact I have faced more bias in Pakistan as "muhajir" than I have faced in the US as a Pakistani!

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

I agree with you.

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

You are right. Many members of this forum see only one side of the coin.


Compare to this the people who came from Pakistan to India during partition..many of them succesfully rebuilt their lives. Most of the leading actors, directors in bollywood had their ancestoral homes in Pakistan.

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

In the following what I am suggesting is based on my personal observation and remains an individual`s assessment. Many of you may disagree.
However, what I believe is that: “Indians do not like each other”

Let me extrapolate the point just mentioned. If a Chinese, Pakistani or an American would meet each other in a foreign country then there would be certain degree of affinity, sense of empathy towards each other. However in the case of Indians there will be feeling of competition, some degree of aloofness and certainly no empathy towards one another.

One of the possible reasons for such behavior could be the fact that India is an amalgamation of 29 different mini countries/states that have been tied together to make a country. These 29 separate states have their own language, eating habits, eating habits and culture. Hence, a person from UP/Bihar has almost nothing in common with a person from Tamil Nadu/Kerala; they speak different languages, dietary habits are different and look different. Generally, Indians of any particular state would get along fairly well rather than Indians of two separate states. So one might argue that the affinity is at the level of state not nation.

In India, like in some other countries, people do not appreciate others success. You tell a fellow Indian as to how great things are and he would be disappointed. However, if you recount your troubles then he would be almost happy, will provide advice, and offer help. I also think that among Pakistanis this feeling is much greater, if Indians try to pull each other down then Pakistanis try to tear each other down.

As mentioned earlier, these are personal opinion based on subjective observations. However, I do believe that “Indians do not like each other.”

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00005247&channel=chaathouse

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

When i meet a Indian i say i’m from Andhra , but when i meet a Foreigner i say i’m from india , and i don’t see any wrong in this :slight_smile:

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

Muhajirs are still reffered to as Muhajir/Hindustani because they still identify with their towns/cities back in India, nobody looks down on them, Muhajir is not used as a derogratory label, infact they look down on the local Pakistanis (Punjabis and Pathans) as jaahil, daggey and akhrots (aap apne girehban mein jhank kar dekho) and they want special treatment and have the victim mentality which is really irritating..

My Karachian friend is always cracking anti-pathan jokes and the older generation are against Punjabis... They have a really neg image of pathans from the workers in their city.. It's really irrittating some of the ignorant things they say, you feel like smacking them and telling them "pehlay aaenay mein apni shakal dekho phir auron ka mazaak urrao"..

Not saying we should hate on Karachi people just because of some people like that, all are not like that and are patriotic ppl..

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

Big wow, they became Miraasis.

The wealthiest bussinessmen in Pak are the descendents of muhajirs (immigrants) from India.

Pervez Musharraf's parents came from India..

Re: Indians have misplaced loyalties and are the least patriotric people

Are we not very comfortable them??