As far as Shoib goes, I don't agree that he will be the key to the series. OUr batsmen can handle him well if they put their minds to it. In odi's they'll play him with caution for the first few overs, and in tests I suppose they'll take him for a few runs once they get settled. Did you see anyone unduly threatened by him in the WC match?
It is overall performance that is going to count, mark my words. The middle order will have to fire, the fielders will have to back up the bowlers.
so?? 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *
As far as Shoib goes, I don't agree that he will be the key to the series. OUr batsmen can handle him well if they put their minds to it. In odi's they'll play him with caution for the first few overs, and in tests I suppose they'll take him for a few runs once they get settled. Did you see anyone unduly threatened by him in the WC match?
It is overall performance that is going to count, mark my words. The middle order will have to fire, the fielders will have to back up the bowlers.
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his fitness wasn't up to par during the WC and also since the WC he's different bowler now.. he's bowling much smarter, good line and can vary his pace as well, he's a genuine match winner theres no arguing that... and I suppose he'll get a few batsman out too :p
February kab aay gaaay :(..
Btw doees any one know the new itenary.. if yes then please post...
I read some where that Indians want to come in March instead of Feb :(
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*Originally posted by coOoLBreeze: *
February kab aay gaaay :(..
Btw doees any one know the new itenary.. if yes then please post...
I read some where that Indians want to come in March instead of Feb :(
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I hope the series takes place in the summer so I can go watch it.
Feb-Mar is a very bad time.
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*Originally posted by karina: *
As far as Shoib goes, I don't agree that he will be the key to the series. OUr batsmen can handle him well if they put their minds to it. In odi's they'll play him with caution for the first few overs, and in tests I suppose they'll take him for a few runs once they get settled. Did you see anyone unduly threatened by him in the WC match?
It is overall performance that is going to count, mark my words. The middle order will have to fire, the fielders will have to back up the bowlers.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it you who predicted that Shoaib will be destroyed by the Kiwis?
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*Originally posted by fair_&_balance: *
Pakistan's whole hope in this series will depend on Shoib.If he delivers pakistan will win the series if not then India will. This is as simple as that.
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Shoaib is not our whole hope. We still have guys like Sami and Shabbir who can skittle out the opposition. No doubt, Shoaib is our best bet but even without him we can compete fair enough.
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*Originally posted by saby: *
Shoaib is not our whole hope. We still have guys like Sami and Shabbir who can skittle out the opposition. No doubt, Shoaib is our best bet but even without him we can compete fair enough.
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I dont think Shabbir and Sami will be able to run through Indian batting lineup.If Gillespie and Lee cannot do it AUstralia then Shabbir and Sami cannot do it in Pakistani wicket.
But Shoib is one guy for which Wicket doesnt really matter much.He bowls fast and pitches it up thus forcing batsmen to either play it or get bowled or LBW.
But then you never know. We will have to wait.
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*Originally posted by fair_&_balance: *
I dont think Shabbir and Sami will be able to run through Indian batting lineup.If Gillespie and Lee cannot do it AUstralia then Shabbir and Sami cannot do it in Pakistani wicket.
But Shoib is one guy for which Wicket doesnt really matter much.He bowls fast and pitches it up thus forcing batsmen to either play it or get bowled or LBW.
But then you never know. We will have to wait.
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Shabbir doesn't have to run through the Indian line-up. He's not our attack bowler. If he can contain the indians with his good line and length and pick up 2-3 wickets on average, I'd be very satisfied with his performance.
As regards Sami, you may think he is incapable of running through the Indian line-up but he's already done just that on a few ocassions to different oppostions. He only needs to click on the day and when he does, he's pretty much up there with the best. He has a pretty reasonable record in Pakistan too, averaging 18.14 with a S/R of 25.00. I guess only time will tell how effective he is against the Indians but I suspect he'll come good.
as far as i remember, lee just came back in the last test match and gillispie is not the kind of wicket taker as say mcgrath and lee are when they r fully fit. as for sami, i don think u have followed his career quite so much. he has the ability to destroy oppositions both at home and on the road.
yes, indian batting might be the biggest challenge for him and the rest of our pacers, but i think they r up for it. if this series goes on [n i will still have my doubts until they actually land in pakistan] man what a mouthfull would it be! cant wait…
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fair_&_balance: *
Pakistan's whole hope in this series will depend on Shoib.If he delivers pakistan will win the series if not then India will. This is as simple as that.
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i know y u made this statement - just to get some attention. let me tell u one thing, most of the better teams in world cricket don totally depend on one great player - n u know it as well. sachin was a total failure, still india is 1-1 with aus in aus, which is some achievement.
same goes for shoaib, he is our most imp player, but not the only match winner. sami n shabbir n kaneria our equally capable of delivering. aus, sa, pak, ind all have their superstars but they have many other players too who can do it for them. other teams like west indies on the other hand r almost totally dependant on the likes of brian lara.
but as for the top teams, pak can ofc win w/o shaoib as it has demonstrated that in the past [hell, we almost won the 1st tell as well if it dint rain n the lower order also saved nz], ind can win w/o sachin, aus can win w/o ponting, sa can win w/o kallis....
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*Originally posted by akpower: *
i know y u made this statement - just to get some attention. let me tell u one thing, most of the better teams in world cricket don totally depend on one great player - n u know it as well. sachin was a total failure, still india is 1-1 with aus in aus, which is some achievement.
same goes for shoaib, he is our most imp player, but not the only match winner. sami n shabbir n kaneria our equally capable of delivering. aus, sa, pak, ind all have their superstars but they have many other players too who can do it for them. other teams like west indies on the other hand r almost totally dependant on the likes of brian lara.
but as for the top teams, pak can ofc win w/o shaoib as it has demonstrated that in the past [hell, we almost won the 1st tell as well if it dint rain n the lower order also saved nz], ind can win w/o sachin, aus can win w/o ponting, sa can win w/o kallis....
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Lets not kid ourselves. Mark my word "For Pakistan to win against India in Pak Shoib will have to fire". Period. If matches were played anywhere else other than subcontinant than I would have not said this. You are unnecessarily taking it as insult. Take it as compliment and you will be happy.
You gave stupid example of first test.I am not saying that pakistan cannot win without Shoib.What I am saying is that they cant win against India without shoib. There is difference.
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*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
As regards Sami, you may think he is incapable of running through the Indian line-up but he's already done just that on a few ocassions to different oppostions.
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There is difference between NZL Lineup and Indi/AUS lineup.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by akpower: *
i know y u made this statement - just to get some attention. let me tell u one thing, most of the better teams in world cricket don totally depend on one great player - n u know it as well. sachin was a total failure, still india is 1-1 with aus in aus, which is some achievement.
same goes for shoaib, he is our most imp player, but not the only match winner. sami n shabbir n kaneria our equally capable of delivering. aus, sa, pak, ind all have their superstars but they have many other players too who can do it for them. other teams like west indies on the other hand r almost totally dependant on the likes of brian lara.
but as for the top teams, pak can ofc win w/o shaoib as it has demonstrated that in the past [hell, we almost won the 1st tell as well if it dint rain n the lower order also saved nz], ind can win w/o sachin, aus can win w/o ponting, sa can win w/o kallis....
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Well said.
Shoaib is a major part of the Pakistani team, but Pakistan can still take on anyside in the world without Shoaib.
Pakistan has been successfull against India for many years and Shoaib has only played 1 tests against India.
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*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it you who predicted that Shoaib will be destroyed by the Kiwis?
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And wasn't it you who had predicted that India would get steamrollered in Australia?
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*Originally posted by Xpress: *
Pakistan has been successfull against India for many years and Shoaib has only played 1 tests against India.
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This is another dumb arguement.We are talking about present team not the team in past. Why is it tough to have decent arguement here? And in previous tours of India in pakistan there was one Pakistani Bowler (Imran khan) who had the capabilities to run through any batting lineup and he was the one who made pakistan win series.In last series none of Wasim,Imran,Waqar fired and it was a 0-0 series . THis Indian batting lineup is definitly better than one who travelled in 1989.
But this is trivial.
The whole Point of my arguement is that...If shoib doesnt fire then it will be very very difficult for OTHER pakistani bowlers to get PRESENT Indian batsmen out twice.
ab bhi nahi samjhe to, Agli baar urdu me type karunga..
^you have a point, and this can be discussed civily
Yes, Shaoib can make a difference, but you forget that we also have the worlds 3rd fastest bowler as well, Sami on his day can cause a lot of destruction as well. So Shoiab is not alone. Shabbir, especially in tests, has shown his worth as well.
You also don't compare the Indian bowling with Pakistani batting. I think it wil be really tough for the Indian bowlers, especially minus Singh's spinning, to get Pakistan out twice. In the past, India had the benefit of a few deadly spinners at least, that is'nt preseant any more. With Agarkar being India's top bowler at the moment I am not sure they have enough firepower to penetrate the Pakisani batting.
Of course all this is situational on what happens a few months from now, who is injured and who is in form. There are too many variable to make predictions right now.
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*Originally posted by elahi: *
^you have a point, and this can be discussed civily
Yes, Shaoib can make a difference, but you forget that we also have the worlds 3rd fastest bowler as well, Sami on his day can cause a lot of destruction as well. So Shoiab is not alone. Shabbir, especially in tests, has shown his worth as well.
You also don't compare the Indian bowling with Pakistani batting. I think it wil be really tough for the Indian bowlers, especially minus Singh's spinning, to get Pakistan out twice. In the past, India had the benefit of a few deadly spinners at least, that is'nt preseant any more. With Agarkar being India's top bowler at the moment I am not sure they have enough firepower to penetrate the Pakisani batting.
Of course all this is situational on what happens a few months from now, who is injured and who is in form. There are too many variable to make predictions right now.
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I totally agree with you Elahi. And I never said that Indian bowlers will be any threats.What I said is that for Pak to win Shoib will have to fire.
Honestly speaking the result will be 0-0 same as India's last tour.
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*Originally posted by karina: *
And wasn't it you who had predicted that India would get steamrollered in Australia?
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Nope. Wasn't me.
Time to eat your words :)
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*Originally posted by fair_&_balance: *
There is difference between NZL Lineup and Indi/AUS lineup.
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Only time will tell how he performs but I stand by my statement that on his day he has the ability to rattle most oppositions including India.