Indian spy joining Jihad?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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[quote]
Originally posted by jannu:
**You got that right. Not unless we begin to look at ourselves will we begin to make a change. As I have said before, let us start with ourselves and not worry about what the West is doing to us. It will only do to us what we let it. This is a very simplistic statement but one that will require our lifetime to see fruitation....if we decide that's the future we really want. If that's the decision then I guess one of the requirements would be to start implimenting some of the basic human rights rules and regulations that Islam requires from all of us...besides increasing the religious adherence...but I remember a poster from New Zealand who said that the world recognizes us as Muslims to the extent that we show it in practice not in belief. That was on SCP, newsgroup's society.culture.Pakistan, which I left due to the same thing that I see go on here aaaalll the time. Talk to no end but there is NEVER any talk of actions/steps.....never any signs of action-based talk, never any signs of concerted efforts for anything. It's all talk all the time. I have seen very few who have shown that they are not part of this scenario.

“na maiN* momin vich masiitaa*N, na maiN* muusaa, na fir'aun!”
*

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Originally posted by Ali_R:
**
No its not Abdul Salam.
Why stupdity and waht kind of loss?**

Wasn't he a Nobel prize winner in Physics?
Isn't that correct? From what I have heard, he was kicked out by Pakistan on basis of him being Qaadiani. If this is correct and you know it, too, then I don't understand why you're questioning my comment?

So, I don't understand your comment...

I said Me neither. If, for me, it was all about Islam, I'd on another forum. But I have a much higher expectation from Pakistanis and for that I become a high synic. I have seen Pakistanis in my life in U.S. I am impressed of what they have been able to accomplish. I truly think that Pakistan is a goldmine only waiting for the right hands to dig it. Education is the only tool....even as the Quran dictates to the Musilms.....so isn't it our responsibility to see that educational activities are fostered, supported, nurtured in Pakistan and elsewhere in the Muslim world.

To which you said: **But your statements above proof the opposite.

Are you referring to person who live in U.S and gained riches??
Don't forget mo' is not the most important object in ISLAM.**

Yes, my statements proof the opposite and that it's the political infrustructure that fosters, promotes, and condones such behaviors. I was not clear on this before. But this aspect has become part of people's behavior/expectation/demand/right/etc.

Your next statement: *Are you referring to person who live in U.S and gained riches?? *

I don't see what you are trying to say in relation to my statement. I don't get it.

But when you said that Don't forget mo' is not the most important object in ISLAM I think that this is the same philosophical stand that we get burried in discussing. Sure there are examples of such. Just last month, a family moved from Washington State to Dallas in search of better Islamic education for their children. To you, they 'migrated' over 1,500 miles. The family had a home and business that they sold after the dad went back to offload them. Their case was showcased in one of the shows on local radio show.

By the same token, I have seen other families that have tried to pull up their stakes and move back. Our situation is different. My four generations are in U.S. and my wife's family's two generations in U.K. Our situation is different. Many of the ones you are talking about going back have someone in their immediate family who is living in Pakistan which makes if far easier to take the shock or to absorb the shock.

I also know many who have paid 50,000 Rs. bribe to have themselves smuggled to U.S.

So, Don't forget mo' is not the most important object in ISLAM. is true... but then look around in your communities and see the turth. There are far more achiveable points within Islam that we should and can persue as Muslims, and to strengthen ourselves as Muslims, where ever we live. If the world belongs to Allah (sbwt) then why the fixation on a piece of land? This makes me think of nationalism.

I believe this is a paradox many Muslims have a hard time copeing with. Are we Muslims or citizens of a certain country?

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And I was not born in America, I was born in Nazimabad, Karachi.

Jannu, no wonder you’re so full of it.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Just kidding, I agree with a lot of what you say. But, I don’t think this is a problem limited to Pakistan. The is a problem with most developing countries in the world. But, especially Muslim countries, due to the spread of Mullahism and Wahabisim.

These problems that you mention also exist in India, so its true that we’re really not all that different. And once Pakistan disintigrates into smaller ethnic countries, the problems will still be their. In fact they might even increase. So, it doesn’t really matter, South Asia is dooomed for ever.

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[quote]
Originally posted by jannu:
Originally posted by Ali_R:
Wasn't he a Nobel prize winner in Physics?
Isn't that correct? From what I have heard, he was kicked out by Pakistan on basis of him being Qaadiani. If this is correct and you know it, too, then I don't understand why you're questioning my comment?

Well, I think we both are confused now. I don't know what you meant. Anyway yes that is true but it is not Abudl Salam I was refering. Or maybe...I don't know. It might be yes you are right just looked it up it's him. His brother is a friend of my father. And yes he was kicked out, but don't forget that most of his mo' (he has jewellery shops in DUBAI!) go to Pakistan. I never said that it was ok being kicked out by Pakistan. He suffered a lot. His brother told us that they had to hide in lahore not being killed and massacred by extremist Mullah who were holding machetes in their hands.

I don't see what you are trying to say in relation to my statement. I don't get it.

I think I'll skip this coz we both are confused.

But when you said that **Don't forget mo' is not the most important object in ISLAM I think that this is the same philosophical stand that we get burried in discussing. Sure there are examples of such. Just last month, a family moved from Washington State to Dallas in search of better Islamic education for their children. To you, they 'migrated' over 1,500 miles. The family had a home and business that they sold after the dad went back to offload them. Their case was showcased in one of the shows on local radio show.**

These are exceptions. I don't think your parents or (whosoever) left Pakistan to get better Islamic education. Or to practise Islam more openly.
Don't tell me.

*By the same token, I have seen other families that have tried to pull up their stakes and move back. Our situation is different. My four generations are in U.S. and my wife's family's two generations in U.K. Our situation is different. Many of the ones you are talking about going back have someone in their immediate family who is living in Pakistan which makes if far easier to take the shock or to absorb the shock. *

Yeah and thats what I'm trying to tell you. You can't feel what I'm feeling or a person who is Pak once in a year. If not twice.

I also know many who have paid 50,000 Rs. bribe to have themselves smuggled to U.S.

Yes but not coz of killings and murders. No, the main reason is the economical situation, the infrastructure, the mo', the job opportunities and so on.....

*There are far more achiveable points within Islam that we should and can persue as Muslims, and to strengthen ourselves as Muslims, where ever we live. If the world belongs to Allah (sbwt) then why the fixation on a piece of land? This makes me think of nationalism. *

Exactly thats what I'm trying to tell you. Why compare U.S with Pak?? Give up the boundries and see it as one world and then talk about the whole world not only Pak or U.S........

[/quote]

“na maiN* momin vich masiitaa*N, na maiN* muusaa, na fir'aun!”
*

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Ali_R:
**
These are exceptions. I don't think your parents or (whosoever) left Pakistan to get better Islamic education. Or to practise Islam more openly.
Don't tell me.
**

I said that there are examples of such...I had ment to say that there were rare examples of such. You are right. Every 'migration' is mostly due to economic conditions.

You can't feel what I'm feeling or a person who is Pak once in a year. If not twice.
You don't think I feel like a Pakistani? BTW, last time I went to Pakistan was in '82 for two weeks.

Yes but not coz of killings and murders. No, the main reason is the economical situation, the infrastructure, the mo', the job opportunities and so on.....
You are right but let me reiterate a situation to you (a rare example not worth basing anything on): A friend of mine's brother came from Peshawar. We had made very close friends in the three months he stayed here. He had a friend who had told him that he was coming from another city to our city with a tableeghi jamaat during a certain week. I took him to our local mosque. Time was around 2300 hrs. There were about 12 people in that group. The mosque had allowed them to stay during their visit. We visited with the group for about 30 minutes. There were 4 or 5 people who this guy recognized. They are all from Peshawar. During the meeting I saw those guys raise their hands and put them together as in ilteja and asked him to please not say anything back home when he returns. These people has been jumped their stay and were going around in a tableegh from masjid to masjid while looking for any type of work. None could be found - - - for over 9 months!!!

After we left, this guy told me that that the people I saw were Caror pati. He personally knew of two people who had koThis renting to airlines for over 90,000 RS per month. He couldn't believe his eyes seeing these people trying to find $5.00 per hour jobs as illegals. But there are far many examples of well-to-do people in these types of situations.....

Give up the boundries and see it as one world and then talk about the whole world not only Pak or U.S........

That can help pass a good amount of time. But whatever you decide to do, if anything, will be based on the national environment within which you exist. Even Quran tells Musilms to obey the laws of the nation they are living in. So, Islam recognizes that there are nations and not one Khilafat-state.
Before you jump holding your breath: I am not advocating backing all policies of the nations - good and bad together. We should try to counter the bad where we see it....as required by our faith (sure sounds like fiction to me).

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Taj2001:
**Jannu, no wonder you’re so full of it.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

**

Huh? I was below the age of Islamic adulthood when I left Pakistan. I haven’t the faintest idea of what you mean by the above.

Just kidding,
No, really, I would like to know what you were trying to kid about? I won’t mind.

I agree with a lot of what you say. But, I don’t think this is a problem limited to Pakistan.
True. But I tend to look there as a Pakistani.

The is a problem with most developing countries in the world. But, especially Muslim countries, due to the spread of Mullahism and Wahabisim.
Uh, I guess it’s mostly due to lack of education…but even at that wahabisim in the Arab world has affected the educated ones… Yeah, you are right.

These problems that you mention also exist in India, so its true that we’re really not all that different. And once Pakistan disintigrates into smaller ethnic countries, the problems will still be their. In fact they might even increase. So, it doesn’t really matter, South Asia is dooomed for ever.

If education is promoted in Pakistan then I believe some change can be fostered. But along with that family planning a very close second…but then economic situation has to change to allow parents to have fewer children - social system has to improve, etc. But a change has to beging, none the less, and I think, like many others, that education is the answer.

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*“na maiN momin vich masiitaaN, na maiN muusaa, na fir’aun!”
*