Indian Muslims Brother in ISLAM but not in POLITICS

At times Pakistanis curse the Indian muslims of being not Muslims enough & Indian muslims are dissapointed at the careless,flippant & irresponsible adventurism towards India particularly in Kashmir whic has dire effects in Gujrat Mumbai or Ayodhya .

Choosing to be in India by design or Fate ,these Muslims cant live the privileged life odf a Pakistani muslims.No Eid Or Muharram on the scale that Pakistanis come to Enjoy .
http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/15072002/1507200219.htm

	Brothers in Islam, but not 

Wohi Hota Hai Jo Munzoore Khuda Hota Hai …

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[This message has been edited by sabah (edited August 06, 2002).]

well islam practiced in india or in indian subcontinent is a very indian form of islam
iam talking about sufis or sunnis .
whereas tableeq and ahle hadees are a puritan form of islam
but sufis surely practice a very indian version of islam

To be honest i a m not sure of the Sufism..if Kabir you love in India then i assume you know better.
Muslims in India are about 12% and are treated like a low caste and with very little respect. Naturally in a country where you are ruled by your enemy is going to cause the Muslims problems like any minority or are ruled by the enemy. Look to all of the Muslim world to Bosnia, Chechnya, Israel even where essentially Arafats rule means nothing.
However in our own countries we aren't entirely safe. Just like Muslims in India who don't like how they are ruled, Muslims ruled in predominately Muslim countries are persecuted if they are to disagree with their countries ruling. Look to the Arab world especially where one word against the ruler of the land can land you dead. The amount of things i have heard about Saddam for example and how he tortures Muslims who disagree with how he rules. Pakistan has more freedom admittedly however as Pakistanis have never been the type to be quiet and with the general army(not the generals) being just like the people it is difficult to impart a rule like this.
However it is doubtful whether Muslims even in their own countries have political freedom which obviously the Indians for example don't have.
Also you mentioned Eid. We not even in our own lands celebrate it properly. Pakistan won't celebrate on the same day as Bangladesh etc. and in England the start of Ramdhan has nothing to do with when the moon is sighted but with when Saudi start it.

<>

Yeah..nothing like a mosque shooting spree to drive the point home.

Sheikh

YOu cannot appreciate being discriminated for political reasons is TOTALLY different than being discriminated for religion as in INDIOA

Political torture may be more severe but it happens to adult who CHOOSE to be conscientious objectors but when children & women who just happoen to be BORN in the minority religion persecuted IT IS LIKE FOR NO FAULT OF THERE OWN AND THEY CANT DO ANY THING ABOUT IT

I think you should not compare what happens to muslim in Iraq with Indian muslims .If u want to compare why not with Malaysia ,Brunei,Iran or others ..why with the worse. Then any thing even 9-11 can be trivialized as Hiroshima Nagasaki of Islamic militant revenge bombing !!!Dont Rudy Julliane make scene you r liuckty see how much japenese suffered??

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Sufism is much indegenous in Turkey & mideast areas than in India .

If Hindutva have there way …they will obliviate all traces of Muslim presence in 2/3 of divided India & THANk GOD FOR JINNAH’S 1/3 INDIA WHICH WILL ALWAYS BE IN YOUR FACE

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IRRITATING YOU OF THE ‘INTOLERABLE’( IN YOUR OPINION )THAT MUSLIM FLOURISHED IN THE SUBCONTINENT FOR 1000 YEASRS No matter how much you wish to DELETE completely from your future generations psyche .

Its impossible to Hinduise India in 54 yrs what is seeped in its soil deeper than remotest corners of Assam to Kerala …

BUT THE PROCESS OF HINDUISNG IS hurtfull as Gujjuriots & painfull as faklse incrimination of Muslim youths under POTO TADA and other custom made laws making india a DEMOCKERY of nations worse than Saddams open defiant & daring openess.

“…However it is doubtful whether Muslims even in their own countries have political freedom which obviously the Indians for example don’t have.
Also you mentioned Eid. We not…”

[This message has been edited by Gymnasophyst (edited August 07, 2002).]

[quote]
Originally posted by Chaltahai:
**<>

Yeah..nothing like a mosque shooting spree to drive the point home.**
[/quote]

Chaltahai

Atleast muslim voice like SIMI is not muzzled .

No one is murdered by the govt through public police gun in the name of ENCOUNTER

Where muslims are given role model of an Atomic scientist with only name resembling muslim Abul Kalam like the Hindians here with nicks like Hafiz & Sheikh.

Where muslims are asked to change there religion to "indian" (i.e. HINDUTVA) Versions

intermingling of society is unconditional & not FORCED.Muslims in India are distinct version but No hindutva can in this age FORCE muslim to be there version of islam ......and have no consequences.

Gymkhana: If we are to have a conversation, you will have to start doing yoga and writing in a concise and clear manner. I don't understand half the crap you write becuase you are mixing thirty messsages in one sentence. Say OM before every sentence and say shanti after each one. It will not only help clear up your thought process but make you a better muslim.

Aashirvaad,

CH

Thankyou for your your advice & inability to process which is writtenin haste due to constraint of time .

If you can be more specific i ll be jhappy to elaborate for you

e.g of Indias violations are soooo many that i cant enumerate even 1/2 of them ,hence you might get dazzled by the forey of references from luring NDA with bribe of Ministership to Doing whatever it takes to keep the Railway ministr Nitish Happy to keep the Godhra investigationfavourable to Hindutva .


Wohi Hota Hai Jo Munzoore Khuda Hota Hai … :nahnah:

Gymkaha: Are you applying reverse logic to hit on Queer? India bashing is one thing, but what you are doing is not going to make him throw his attentions your way.

e.g. Your post on Sexual Harrassment at Infosys and the underlying nature of "hindians" is a clear indication of what happens when cousins marry. I understand, it is beyond your comprehension.

Ram Ram,

CH

there you go again …

IF YOU WERE TO HAVE AN EXAMPLE TO BASH MUSLIMS FOR THERE PRACTICES

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,YOU AGAIN FAILED.

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IF I AM AS DUMB AS YOU THINK BEING PRODUCT OF UNRELATED PARENTS THEN WOULDNT IT HAD BEEN BETTER IF I, LIKE MANY OTHER SMARTER INTELLIGENT & SHARPER MUSLIMS PRODUCT OF COUSIN MARRIAGE, i wish i was ???

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cHALTA THINK THINK THINK …DONT BE CHALTA

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..STOP & THINK

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Do they have trailer parks in Muslim countries?

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yes

LOL

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Gymkhana: You’re a trip…keep up the good work.

o.k.i can understand you r used to judging the book by the cover or like in India by his/her religion.

READ NOW FROM AN HINDU INDIAN ,I DONT KNOW IF HE IS HINDIAN OR NOT BUT HE KNOWS A LOT ABOUT HINDUISM & WAYS OF YOU HINDUS NRI WHO ARE MORE DANGEROUS THAN THOSE BACK IN INDIA …

MORE & MORE NON RESIDENT INDIANS HERE HINDUS ARE VHP SUPPORTER

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Suburban Whites and Pogroms in India

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http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2002-07/14prashad.cfm
By Vijay Prashad

Every few years I teach a class called “Hippies.” The main theme of the course is to follow the white, suburban middle-class in its homage to Asia - from the 1967 Summer of Love debut of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and his Transcendental Mediation to the 1990s version via Deepak Chopra and the Dalai Lama.

We study the genuine sense of malaise among suburban youth (the condition that Paul Goodman called “Growing Up Absurd”), but we also tend to the way in which “Asia” functions as an alibi for a politics to transcend the condition of the suburb. A bumper sticker that says “Free Tibet” seems to offer an entry into a transcendental politics, far removed from the social melancholy of suburban life.

Does Tibet or Hinduism offer a coherent program to reconstruct the oppression of suburban capitalism? My own sense is that it facilitates an escape from the rigors of our world. The conceit that whites have no culture and that they can get cultural from this tryst with Asia also contributes to the continued fascination with the surface and/or spiritual level of Asian cultures.

When Gwen Stefani of No Doubt or Madonna can wear a bindi and get accolades for it, those thousands of South Asian girls and women who get teased in school and at work for the “dot” on their forehead feel rightfully bitter and angry.

I’ve got nothing against cultural borrowings because I believe that culture comes without boundaries, without discrete origins and it does anyway move across the frail boundaries set-up by one cultural orthodoxy or another. Polycultural existences or cultural fluidity is inevitable.

But what do we do about the romantic entry of suburban whites into Hinduism when many of the organs that disseminate the faith are linked to the groups that conduct pogroms against Muslims in India?

Are “curiosity” and “respect” sufficient grounds for the entry of the suburban white into the theocratic fascism of these variations of faith?

In a perfect world, yes, but not in this one.

For about a decade, Biju Mathew (best known for his work with the New York Taxi Workers’ Association) and I have conducted research on the Hindutva Right in the US and we’ve found that millions of dollars travel each year through illegal and legal networks to finance right-wing activity in the subcontinent.

This long-distance theocratic fascism was part of the destruction of the mosque at Ayodhya in 1992, the anti-Christian riots in Gujarat a few years ago, and now, certainly, in the state-engineered pogrom against Muslims in Gujarat where at least two thousand people died.

Kanwal Rekhi, a neoliberal entrepreneur, co-wrote a powerful opinion piece in the Washington Post (22 May 2002):

“Many overseas Indian Hindus, including some in this country, finance religious groups in India in the belief that the funds will be used to build temples, and educate and feed the poor of their faith. Many would be appalled to know that some recipients of their money are out to destroy minorities (Christians as well as Muslims) and their places of worship. Mr. Vajpayee could deal a severe blow to such covert causes by simply labeling them as terrorists.”

What Rekhi missed was that it was not only “Indian Hindus” who financed the pogrom, but also many suburban whites who uncritically join temples and other such organizations. They give the Hindutva Right money certainly, but also the much needed legitimacy of white followers in the movement.

Of course the bulk of the saffron dollars comes from the Indian-American community, but the suburban whites who don the robes of Hindutva give prestige and legitimacy to the movement. The legacy and persistence of racism provides respect to any artifact or institution of color that is worn or frequented by whites.

This was the reason, for instance, why it was so important for the erstwhile right-wing Dharam Hinduja Indic Research Center at Columbia University to attract large numbers of white scholars for its project to whitewash Hindutva. Many came, mainly white women who study various aspects of Hinduism and are themselves very well known and otherwise respected scholars of Indology. Eager for cash, they disregarded the role they played for Hindutva, just as those whites who become Hindus in this day and age do not actively engage with the crucial role Hindutva plays within global Hinduism.

Let’s stay with the Hinduja institute. Funded by the arms-dealer and industrialist S. P. Hinduja, the center is named for his late son Dharam. Dharam, a Wharton graduate, fell in love with and married an Anglo-Indian Catholic woman whom he wanted to marry. Adamantly opposed to it, the family chased him off and, as a result, he committed suicide in 1992.

Those so-called “Hindu values” that would not accept the child’s desire to live as a human being in a complex world were now to be cruelly sanctified in a research institute that bears his name. Even as Columbia University abandoned the money after sustained protest by secular forces, Cambridge University continues to host such a center (there is also one in New Delhi).

And the suburban whites in the Hindutva Right movement are not only followers, because a few of them are important leaders. This should come as no surprise to those of us who have been accosted by ISCKON workers (the “Hare Krishnas”) in airports and other places. Two of the main grandees are men who converted to Hinduism, became important intellectuals of the Hindutva movement and now flog the ideology via the Internet, in their books and periodicals:

(1) David Frawley, aka Swami Vamdev. Frawley is affiliated with various theocratic fascist organizations such as the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), the Hindu Students Council (HSC) and the Hindu Swayamsevak Sangh (HSS) - all three arms of the global Hindutva movement whose teeth were bared in Gujarat recently. In 1996, Frawley traveled across England as an honored guest of the VHP.

From Arise Arjuna (1995) to Hinduism and the Clash of Civilizations (2001), Frawley offers a Huntingtonian analysis of the clash between Islam (bad) and Christianity (almost good), with Hinduism being the necessary ally of the good. The anti-Muslim tenor of his books is also evident in his works on ancient India (such as Gods, Sages and Kings, 1991) where Frawley joins a series of theocratic fascists to argue that Vedic India was bliss and that everything since then has been a disaster.

(2) Satuguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami and Satguru Bodhinatha Velanswami. Founders of the magazine Hinduism Today and of the ashram in Hawaii that houses the Hindu Heritage Endowment, these two swamis (Satguru or Gurudev has since died) have very close ties to the VHP. Their materials regularly quote approvingly from VHP documents and the money raised by the HHE goes toward Hindutva activities.

There is, of course, nothing inherently wrong with the pursuit of spirituality under the sign of Hinduism; indeed there is perhaps much to be gained from it. However, as Hindutva-style cruelty devastates the landscape of Indian life, it is imperative for those who claim Hinduism to offer ruthless criticism of global Hindutva.

If you attend a temple, ask the priests and others about their relationship with the pogrom in Gujarat: and don’t take their denials at face value. Demand to see the account books, investigate the guests who come and speak to the members, find out if any group like the HSS runs the show. Do not allow liberal multiculturalism to give global Hindutva cover from secular forces.

Finally, as global Hindutva tries to get United Way clearance and as its front organs try to pose as charitable organizations, be ready to fight them all the way. The current exchange rate is fifty rupees for one dollar. Even a few greenbacks translate into crucial resources in impoverished zones and become a saffron bludgeon against the Indian masses.


Wohi Hota Hai Jo Munzoore Khuda Hota Hai … :nahnah:

[quote]
Originally posted by Gymnasophyst:
If you can be more specific i ll be jhappy to elaborate for you
[/quote]

can you be more specific what else would follow the jhappy, PorKy boy?

ps: easy on the fruity smilies.

Gymnasphyst,
I am well aware of the atrocities that the Hindus have committed in Gujurat as friends of mine have had families abused there.
My point was regarding the fact that just like Indian Muslims are helpless Muslim around the World are as well. 5000 children die in Iraq every month from UN sanctions and anyone who speaks out against Saddam is killed. Muslims around the whole world suffer whether it be Gujurat, Kashmir, Iraq, Chechnya etc and it is a real problem.
Yet we see nothing. We have armies who are told to sit back and view the carnage. Unfortunately at this time we have no sincere rulers who are willing to take the steps to save the Muslims.

When you name all these places it begs a question, what is it about Islam that precludes its adherents from getting along with others. India, China, SSR's,Pakistan, Phillipines, Indonesia and on and on...

Something about foot and shoe comes to mind.....

Only other group that is aas widespread in number is CHristian.

If you consider all the places Britain fought to hang on to there empire almost scores of countries it SHOULD BE EQUATED WITH CHRITIANS FIGHTING WITH NON CHRISTIANS as in case of Muslims it is not Iraqi but muslim ,Malaysia but Musl;im Indonesia but Muslim…For muslims you name muslims for Britain & America you dont call christians which are the majority of these countries

SEE THE HYPOCRICY HYPOCRITE

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Wohi Hota Hai Jo Munzoore Khuda Hota Hai … :nahnah: