Re: Indian Elections 2009
Did you read BJP's guidelines and goals??^^^^
and 2002 Gujarat was a non-BJP ruled state, right?
Re: Indian Elections 2009
^ The entire country (including Muslims) have moved beyond 2002 Gujarat, and you are still stuck there :)
How can you condone the Congress then, who was responsible for the 1984 Sikh massacre ?? How is that a non-communal party ?
Re: Indian Elections 2009
^^
In one breath you claim that it was the Congress that was responsible for the 1984 Sikh massacre and then you ask the country to move beyond 2002 Gujarat. 1984 riots were an aberration and people responsible for the same do not hold positions of power. The Congress denied tickets to the tainted guys when there were protests.Remember none of these guys were convicted by the courts. No such thing happened in the BJP. The mastermind is on a whirlwind tour to elicit votes for the party. Hope you can see the difference.
Re: Indian Elections 2009
I agree that its a matter of perception, however one cannot deny that the development work in Gujarat has bettered the lot of both Hindus & Muslims. As for stifling the rights of minorities - what about the Sikh riots in 1984 ? The Congress govt had given tickets to the people responsible even in these elections, and it took a shoe thrown at the Home Minister for them to replace those candidates. ** We can keep debating about Kandahar, however dont forget that there were innocent people on the plane. Its easier to make judgements from the outside. ** I dont care what the party had to rely on to become a party of reckoning - I care more about what they do when they are in power. I have lived & worked in Congress ruled as well as BJP ruled states (including Gujarat), and have seen the difference first hand.
Development at what cost ??? Why just speak about the development in Gujarat. What happened in Rajasthan. Why was the BJP so unceremoniously voted out. As Victory rightly pointed out, Gujarat and Karnataka will develop because of the people. I live in Karnataka presently and I fully understand the kind of development work the govt is doing. It is just filling the pockets of the Mining Lobby. Nothing else.
I am not debating about terrorists being released for the safe return of the hostages. I am talking about the Home Minister who denied that he was in the know of the exchange. As the Home Minister what was he doing.
Re: Indian Elections 2009
I am not sure where you get your facts from 
There are eye witnesses who saw Tytler, Sajjan Kumar & Bhagat leading the mobs that massacred Sikhs. Despite that they were let off (obviously under pressure from the govt). If it had not been for the shoe thrown at PC, they would still be fighting the elections. And also remember that these same people were ministers in Rajeev Gandhi’s govt.
Compare that with Gujarat where a minister has been arrested for the riots -
Maya Kodnani resigns, surrenders before SIT - Express India
If we can move beyond the 1984 riots, we can surely move beyond 2002 riots too.
Re: Indian Elections 2009
Development at what cost ??? Why just speak about the development in Gujarat. What happened in Rajasthan. Why was the BJP so unceremoniously voted out. As Victory rightly pointed out, Gujarat and Karnataka will develop because of the people. I live in Karnataka presently and I fully understand the kind of development work the govt is doing. It is just filling the pockets of the Mining Lobby. Nothing else.
I am not debating about terrorists being released for the safe return of the hostages. I am talking about the Home Minister who denied that he was in the know of the exchange. As the Home Minister what was he doing.
There has been development in Rajasthan during the BJP rule. The SEZ in Jaipur, roads/highways connecting cities, new industry coming in and sops for tourism are all exapmples of that. I am not sure how familiar you are with Rajasthan politics, but the state has had a history of anti-incumbency voting. The Gujjar issue also hurt the BJP in the state elections.
Your words sound like typical Congress propaganda :) LK Advani (who was the home minister) has gone on record stating that he consulted opposition parties and state CMs before the exchange was carried out. Care to substantiate your claim about him having denied knowledge of that exchange ?
Re: Indian Elections 2009
^ The entire country (including Muslims) have moved beyond 2002 Gujarat, and you are still stuck there :)
How can you condone the Congress then, who was responsible for the 1984 Sikh massacre ?? How is that a non-communal party ?
well, yaar, sorry sorry garam pakori for bursting the bubble, but 2002 remains a big scar, still fresh in everyone's mind. ;)
the guys, who were supposed to be the 1984 culprits were tried and then released.
after Sikhs expressed their objection to those ppl, they were dropped to honour their sentiments.
very communal.
the guys who were proved to be the 2002 culprits(hint hint: Tehelka!) move around freely, campaigning and maang-ing votes, inspite of the objection by not only Muslims, by a very large portion of the majority community too.
very non-communal.
you know, i would have preferred BJP over Congress any day, but then its guilty by association (hint hint 2: RSS, Bajrang Dal) AND because of its own communal policies and outlook too(hint hint3: Babri Masjid, 2002, Ram Mandir, Rath Yatra, VARUN GANDHI ;))
Re: Indian Elections 2009
the guys, who were supposed to be the 1984 culprits were tried and then released. after Sikhs expressed their objection to those ppl, they were dropped to honour their sentiments. very communal.
the guys who were proved to be the 2002 culprits(hint hint: Tehelka!) move around freely, campaigning and maang-ing votes, inspite of the objection by not only Muslims, by a very large portion of the majority community too. very non-communal.
FYI, a BJP minister from Gujarat has been arrested in connection with the 2002 riots :)
And there were eyewitnesses who saw Tytler, Sajjan Kumar & Bhagat leading the mobs in 1984, and they were still released by the courts. Does that not sound fishy ? (Hint hint: Congress putting pressure on the courts ;)).
Re: Indian Elections 2009
A minister in Gujarat was arrested ** 7 ** years after the incident happened. She was a sitting minister all this while. Do you sincerely believe that it took 7 years for the police to find out that she was guilty. There is definitely more to it than that meets the eye. Also do you think that riots happened without the sanction of the person who is now the champion of development.
Re: Indian Elections 2009
When the BJP is defeated there are a lot of factors that did it in. There is no chance that it was bad governace. If that is not propaganda I dont know what is.
Please update yourself on what LK Advani wrote in his book " My County My Life"
LK Advani - Portal - BJP to launch website on Advani’s book
This will help you to understand the true nature of our so called leader. Now dont say that this book was a Congress Conspiracy
Re: Indian Elections 2009
FYI, a BJP minister from Gujarat has been arrested in connection with the 2002 riots :)
And there were eyewitnesses who saw Tytler, Sajjan Kumar & Bhagat leading the mobs in 1984, and they were still released by the courts. Does that not sound fishy ? (Hint hint: Congress putting pressure on the courts ;)).
a BJP leader?? :) when they were proofs of His BJP Highness Mr. Modi's involvement in the riots, still he moves around in his imported SUV. ;)
And there were eyewitness who saw BJP high members' involvement in 2002 too.
what happened to them?
:) if a Congressman doesnt get punishment for an accusation, then the court is pressured, if the same thing happens to a BJP goon, its because he is doodh ka dulha, right? and if a BJP gunda gets convicted by the court for spreading communal feelings, he is a victim of political plotting, right? ;)
Re: Indian Elections 2009
A minister in Gujarat was arrested **7 **years after the incident happened. She was a sitting minister all this while. Do you sincerely believe that it took 7 years for the police to find out that she was guilty. There is definitely more to it than that meets the eye. Also do you think that riots happened without the sanction of the person who is now the champion of development.
So do you think the 1984 riots happened without the sanction of Rajiv Gandhi ? Have you forgotten his famous words - "when a big tree falls, the earth trembles" trying to justify the killing of Sikhs in retaliation for Indira Gandhi's assassination ?
Bottomline is that the BJP minister is behind bars, while the Congress leaders are roaming scot free.
I am sure there is more to it than meets the eye. My point is that why single out BJP, when the Congress is as guilty (or not) of acts against minorities.
Re: Indian Elections 2009
a BJP leader?? :) when they were proofs of His BJP Highness Mr. Modi's involvement in the riots, still he moves around in his imported SUV. ;)
Pls share the proof against Modi if you have it, or at least provide some links that mention proof against Modi. Modi is just guilty by association since he was the CM of the state in 2002, and this violence was "supposedly" carried out by the saffron brigade.
a BJP leader?? And there were eyewitness who saw BJP high members' involvement in 2002 too. what happened to them?
The only eye witness I know about (Zaheera Sheikh) was convicted of lying about the riots ;) Do you know of others ?
Re: Indian Elections 2009
I agree - there is no chance that it was bad governance that led to BJP’s loss in Rajasthan. It was a combination of the various factors I have mentioned in my earlier post.
Having lived in Rajasthan for a good part of my life, I definitely understand Rajasthan politics.
Your link does not talk about what Advani mentioned in his book. However this link will help you understand what the truth was -
India Today - India’s most widely read magazine.
Re: Indian Elections 2009
So do you think the 1984 riots happened without the sanction of Rajiv Gandhi ? Have you forgotten his famous words - "when a big tree falls, the earth trembles" trying to justify the killing of Sikhs in retaliation for Indira Gandhi's assassination ?
Bottomline is that the BJP minister is behind bars, while the Congress leaders are roaming scot free.
I am sure there is more to it than meets the eye. My point is that why single out BJP, when the Congress is as guilty (or not) of acts against minorities.
Rajiv gandhi was just getting into office. Nobody had any proof that Rajiv knew the extent of rioting. It is also expected that Rajiv on loosing his mother would utter some not so diplomatic words.
Compare this to Modi, who have established himself as the chief-minister long back, used the riots as a political means to divide the community and rake in the votes and cling on to power.
Congress have asked for apology and forgiven by majority in the Sikh community. This is clear from the Punjab election, congress won three times after the riots. It is also winning handsomely in the Punjabi dominated Delhi areas.
The difference is, BJP is proud to shower up Modi and his goons as a role model for the rest of the country. They are using Gujarat as a templete to engineer division in other areas of the country to gain political milage. Is that what India wants?
Re: Indian Elections 2009
Rajiv gandhi was just getting into office. Nobody had any proof that Rajiv knew the extent of rioting. It is also expected that Rajiv on loosing his mother would utter some not so diplomatic words.
My friend, not having proof of Rajiv Gandhi knowing about the 1984 riots is no excuse. Who has proof of Modi's involvement ? But we still hold Modi responsible for the riots.
Congress have asked for apology and forgiven by majority in the Sikh community. This is clear from the Punjab election, congress won three times after the riots. It is also winning handsomely in the Punjabi dominated Delhi areas.
Congress won in Punjab because the Sikh votes were divided between Akalis & BJP, and not because they supported the Congress :) Ever since the BJP & Akalis have allied, the COngress is no where to be seen, And if Congress was so apologetic about 1984, they would not have given tickets to their tainted leaders in so many elections.
The difference is, BJP is proud to shower up Modi and his goons as a role model for the rest of the country. They are using Gujarat as a templete to engineer division in other areas of the country to gain political milage. Is that what India wants?
Modi's track record as a CM is for all to see. The development that Gujarat has seen under Modi is definitely what India wants. What India does not want is the Congress & its allies trying to divide the country by pandering to different vote banks.
Re: Indian Elections 2009
Hopefully this article will clear some mud
Narendra Modi and Rajiv Gandhi India Unbound
The last few days have seen a lot of prominent voices in support of Narendra Modi as future Prime Minister of India. Since NDA has declared LK Advani as its Prime Minestrial candidate, these voices are not relevant at least in the forthcoming Lok Sabha election. However, the onslaught of secularists against supporters of Narendra Modi exposes their hypocrisy. One could have understood their discomfort with the Chief Minister of Gujarat if they have had similar opinion about Rajiv Gandhi who was ruler of India during the 1984 Sikh riots, the worst ever riots after partition.
In fact the 1984 violence was so one sided that it was not a riot but a pogrom unleashed on the Sikh community by workers of the ruling Congress party to avenge the assassination of their leader Indira Gandhi who was killed by two Sikh terrorists. Very little is known about the extent of 1984 killings as there was no internet and no 24/7 news channels in those days. Khushwant Singh, then the editor of The Illustrated Weekly Of India and a Gandhi family loyalist had called up President Gyani Zail Singh, a Sikh, for protection during the riots. The President, who also happened to be commander-in-chief of our armed forces advised Khushwant Singh to take shelter in a Hindu house. Neither the Police nor any Government Department but a good Hindu friend was the suggestion by the then President to a fellow Sikh who had called up for help. We may be baffled at this helplessness of the President but he knew what he was talking for it was not a Hindu - Sikh riot and hence the advice to Khushwant Singh to take shelter at any Hindu’s house. The President also knew that the pogrom was being carried out under the watchful eyes of Delhi Police and hence did not advice Khushwant Singh to take the help of Police. In fact the day after Indira’s assassination, when the pogrom had just begun, a peace march by some residents of Lajpat Nagar, a Delhi locality was stopped as participants did not have official permission!! In many places Police took away kirpans from Sikhs and made the job of Congress workers much more easier.
For three days, killings continued unabated in the capital and around 3000 Sikhs were killed. But the national television did not show any footage of the riot (Doordarshan was the only Television Channel in those days). All that the state run TV channel showed was the dead body of Indira Gandhi and her mourners. It was as if the city of 9 million people was in the somber mood of mourning. The world was totally unaware of the happenings in the capital of India. People did listen to some Congress workers shouting Khoon Ka Badla Khoon Se Lenge (We will avenge blood with blood) well within the earshot of new Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi but were unaware of the extent of the bloodshed as it was totally blacked out by the only Television Channel in the country.
The official toll by the Government immediately after the riots put the death toll at 425. Atal Bihari Vajpayee who was then the president of BJP contested the official death toll and asked his colleagues to collate figures. BJP’s total added up to 2800. The Congress quickly branded BJP as an anti-national party. Later the Ahuja Committee, appointed by the Government to compute the number of deaths, put the death toll as 2,733 in Delhi. Rajiv Gandhi and his Government never apologised or regretted for the bloodshed. Instead he defended the pogrom by saying, “When a big tree falls, the earth shakes.” Editors of national dailies rationalised the killings. Girilal Jain, editor of The Times Of India explained that the Hindu cup of patience had become full to the brim. N.C. Menon, editor of The Hindustan Times wrote of how Sikhs had clawed their way to prosperity and it was about time. When Khushwant Singh returned his Padma Bhushan award, Vinod Mehta, current editor of Outlook magazine and a shining jewel of the secular pack , wrote that when it came to choosing between a Sikh and an Indian, Khushwant Sikh chose to be a Sikh!!
During the Lok Sabha elections of 1984, Congress ran a hate filled campaign which included advertisements and posters that had a picture of a Sikh Taxi driver with the caption Kya Aap Ek Sikh Taxi Driver pe Bharosa kar sakte hain ? (Can You trust a Sikh Taxi Driver?). In Amethi, where Maneka Gandhi was contesting against her brother in law Rajiv Gandhi, slogans like Beti hai Sardar ki, Qaum hai Gaddar ki (She is the daughter of a Sikh, a community of traitors) worked and so did the hate filled posters in the rest of the country. Congress got 401 seats in the Lok Sabha; a feat which not even Indira Gandhi or Jawaharlal Nehru had achieved. Of course for a congress sympathetic mainstream media, this victory was result of a sympathy wave.
Congress leaders like Sajjan Kumar, Jagdish Tytler, HKL Bhagat who actively took part in the killings continued getting Lok Sabha tickets in successive elections. Jagdish Tytler was even made a minister in the UPA government. PV Narasimha Rao who was the Home Minister during the pogrom, was severely censured for his connivance with the killers, by Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora, hero of 1971 war, in his affidavit to Nanavati Commission . Not only did Rajiv Gandhi made him a cabinet minister again after the 1984 elections but he was also made the Prime Minister after the death of Rajiv Gandhi. Even today mainstream media criticises P V Narasimha Rao more for the demolition of a mosque in Ayodhya, in which non one was killed than for the 1984 massacre of thousands.
Now compare this with the Gujarat riots of 2002. According to UPA Government 254 Hindus and 790 Muslims were killed in the riots. Now if it was a state sponsored riots against Muslims how come 254 Hindus lost their lives ? Gujarat is the only state where many rioters have been convicted by courts whereas the first conviction in anti Sikh pogrom happened in 1997. Even during the riots a lot of rioters (both Hindus and Muslims) were killed due to police firing. The state has progressed a lot since the 2002 riots and hence Modi’s popularity has soared not just in Gujarat but in the entire country despite the fact that he is still held responsible for the riots unlike Rajiv Gandhi who was darling of the same section of the media. This double standard is unfathomable.
People who hold Modi morally responsible for the riots would be probably justified in doing so if they apply the same yardstick to Rajiv Gandhi and Congress regime of 1984. When they dont do that, they expose the hollowness in their secularism.
Re: Indian Elections 2009
My friend, not having proof of Rajiv Gandhi knowing about the 1984 riots is no excuse. Who has proof of Modi's involvement ? But we still hold Modi responsible for the riots.
You know the situations were different. There was a power vacuum at the center. Rajiv was getting to form a govt. Its very different situation to what Modi was doing. He had a favorable central govt., he never bothered to swiftly catch the culprits for Godhra and thereby flaming the anger even more. I dont have to elaborate the evidence against Modi. Besides there is nothing in Modis actions which says that he has any favourable opinion about Muslims. Most of the right wing leaders across the world are quite good administrators, but I would not like to stay at those places where my individual freedom is comprised by some nut crack.
Congress won in Punjab because the Sikh votes were divided between Akalis & BJP, and not because they supported the Congress :) Ever since the BJP & Akalis have allied, the COngress is no where to be seen, And if Congress was so apologetic about 1984, they would not have given tickets to their tainted leaders in so many elections.
Not true. Congress won handsomely even when Akalis and BJP were fighting together. You should go and read on a bit and you would know that many of the BJP guys were congress wallahs during the sikh riots of 1984. BJP was power in the center for 5 years with Akali support, why didnt they do something with Tytler and Sajjan. The matter is in the court and if there is evidence then they will be prosecuted. Unlike Modi, Tytler or Sajjan is not seen giving speeches threatening the minorities.
Modi's track record as a CM is for all to see. The development that Gujarat has seen under Modi is definitely what India wants. What India does not want is the Congress & its allies trying to divide the country by pandering to different vote banks.
That is why Congress won 13 seats from GUjarat in the LS. What India wants is definitely not Modi and its brand of divisive politics.
Re: Indian Elections 2009
Voting for what ? Sharia rule in Swat ?? :p
No, I will be voting for duty free import of enough deodorant to supply ALL Indians! Speedstick ki JAI! :P