Indian Elections 2004 / Why the BJP lost? (MERGED)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kaka_in_usa: *

Well i think they will get muslim votes more than they got before. Do you know that there are a lot more muslims in bjp then 5 years ago.
BJP won the state elections last year without using the religion funda. they won by a huge margin.
there are lot of big muslim leaders who left congress and joined BJP recently. my own uncle who is a muslim is in bjp and won the election.
Infact there is an muslim leader from gujrat who was in congress during the gujrat riots and he critisized bjp that time very hard and now he is in BJP.

[/QUOTE]

When people ask that "will get BJP any Muslim vote?" that means that question is " will a large portion of Muslims vote for BJP". This large portion would be 20-30 percent at least. And Answer is NO. They might get soem vote here and there. But that percentage overall will not be more than 10%. They might buy any muslims leader as they want but it aint gonna work unless they change their startegy and sideline people like Modi,Uma,Advani etc.They can keep hiring a sikandar Bakht or a Shahnawaz Hussien but it aint gonna work.

I was watching BBC last night and MJ Akbar was being interviewed. Far's I remember he was Rajiv Gandhi's friend and always a congressman. But he sounded quite upbeat about the general direction the country was taking irrespective of BJP coming to power. He said for the first time Indians were voting for peace with Pakistan rather than other way round. He also mentioned that a sizeable number of muslims (around 20% if I'm not mistaken) might end up voting for the BJP, which in his opinion was a good sign because it showed that the separating walls were crumbling. 10 years or 5 yrs ago that would have been unthinkable (sic).

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fair_&_balance: *
They might buy any muslims leader as they want but it aint gonna work unless they change their startegy and sideline people like Modi,Uma,Advani etc.They can keep hiring a sikandar Bakht or a Shahnawaz Hussien but it aint gonna work.
[/QUOTE]

yaar shahnawaz at least isn't a toadie, he's his own man.

As far as sidelining the hardcores goes - it will happen when the BJP doesn't need them to woo the fundos and terminally insane. Don't think the BJP does not realise that the Modi and Uma types are now on borrowed time, and with India opening out even more, and foreign investment flowing in, these people will have to vanish or we'll lose world opinion.

Anyway, the answer surely is not in bringing the Congress back? This divide and rule policy was started by them. The creation of slums and shanties for vote banks was their brainchild. Elections would be rigged. IT was the BJP and Lyngdoh that brought in fool-proof voting. I'm not saying they'll continue to be the same, but much as I like Rahul Gandhi's dimples I doubt he knows the first thing about governance.

How many consecutive terms can a single PM in India run?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
How many consecutive terms can a single PM in India run?
[/QUOTE]

as many as he/she wants..Unfortunately there is no restriction.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *

yaar shahnawaz at least isn't a toadie, he's his own man.

As far as sidelining the hardcores goes - it will happen when the BJP doesn't need them to woo the fundos and terminally insane. Don't think the BJP does not realise that the Modi and Uma types are now on borrowed time, and with India opening out even more, and foreign investment flowing in, these people will have to vanish or we'll lose world opinion.

Anyway, the answer surely is not in bringing the Congress back? This divide and rule policy was started by them. The creation of slums and shanties for vote banks was their brainchild. Elections would be rigged. IT was the BJP and Lyngdoh that brought in fool-proof voting. I'm not saying they'll continue to be the same, but much as I like Rahul Gandhi's dimples I doubt he knows the first thing about governance.
[/QUOTE]

Yes I agree with economy opening up and india moving from socialism to capitalism, It will change. Simply because capitalism is all about making money and communalism,casteism doesnt make economic sense.

Having said that ,I think majority 90% of muslims including me if I had chance to vote, will still vote anti BJP. Simply because it is question of priority..For any individual priority is his safety and then comes other stuffs like economy etc. In your case Karina, You feel safe so you will vote of BJP.If I were you, probably I will do the same thing. But since I dont feel safe I will not do it.I will vote for anyone who can beat them even if it means voting for congress.
BJP,you aint gonna get my vote unless you convince that my safety is your priority.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fair_&_balance: *

Having said that ,I think majority 90% of muslims including me if I had chance to vote, will still vote anti BJP. Simply because it is question of priority..For any individual priority is his safety and then comes other stuffs like economy etc. In your case Karina, You feel safe so you will vote of BJP.If I were you, probably I will do the same thing. But since I dont feel safe I will not do it.I will vote for anyone who can beat them even if it means voting for congress.
BJP,you aint gonna get my vote unless you convince that my safety is your priority.
[/QUOTE]

well, i have never voted and will not unless i am 100% convinced about a party.

I agree with you that safety is number 1 priority, but didn't we have hindu/muslim riots even during congress rule? wasn't it the congress that allowed sikhs to be killed?btw, how you goin to vote sitting in US?

F & B,

I aggree with you that Gujrat was a disgrace to India, but I still maintain that Atlaji and BJP are better protector of muslims than anyone else. Certainly India should not fall into the trap of electing another Gandhi just to have someone with that name in power. We don't want to make India a Gandhistan as it has been for decades. And do you think Sonia has an iota of understanding of the complex spectrum of problems that face India? I would be all for electing Atalji and a few others and ditching BJP/NDA but how does one do that?

Electionns

The BJP today is the Congress of the last decade...

Frankly if you lok at it there isnt much difference between their policies and that of the Congress....

Muslims joining the BJP is a good thing to dilute the hardliner RSS factions...

Also it will remove the ghetto mentality, look at it this way, the harliners on both sides have very little interaction with each other, so the hate only grows but once the harliners interact with each other and get to know that maybe people are not so different after all, it can only be for the better.

Maybe not this generation but the new generation of BJP leaders will truly be more natiolistic and less militant religious.....

Anyway teh Congress sucks, Sonia has no business there, Rahul and priyanka if they come up the hard way yes, but not the mother...

I think that is the single biggest reason for the Congres decline...

Its evolution, the BJP is sleeker smarter and wants to win more...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Arvind: *
I would be all for electing Atalji and a few others and ditching BJP/NDA but how does one do that?
[/QUOTE]

Exactly.This is how BJP is going to come in power.That is the reason Hardliners are not able to dump Aalji as much as they want to.But Atal could have doen this and dumped hardliners. But that idiot kept quite when Gujrat was burning just because it will keep his constituents happy.


[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ehsan: *
If BJP wins do you think Vajpayee will last the whole of the next term? If not, who will be his successor? - Advani?
[/QUOTE]


No, Advai is getting a bit too old. Narendra Modi would be a much better choice.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fair_&_balance: *

Exactly.This is how BJP is going to come in power.That is the reason Hardliners are not able to dump Aalji as much as they want to.But Atal could have doen this and dumped hardliners. But that idiot kept quite when Gujrat was burning just because it will keep his constituents happy.
[/QUOTE]

I agree Atalji strangely remained silent when Gujrat erupted. To his defense, I can only say at the time he did not know how much more popular he was with average Indian than his party. He thought he owed his existence to BJP when in fact reverse was true. If he had taken a firm stand including dismissal of Gujrat government, he could have avoided all the bloodshed.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Arvind: *

I agree Atalji strangely remained silent when Gujrat erupted. To his defense, I can only say at the time he did not know how much more popular he was with average Indian than his party. He thought he owed his existence to BJP when in fact reverse was true. If he had taken a firm stand including dismissal of Gujrat government, he could have avoided all the bloodshed.
[/QUOTE]

YEP. That precisely is my complain against him. He didnt act like an statesman that people calim him to be. He was acting like just another cheap Indian politician trying to stick to the chair even if one of his leg was in grave.

F & B,

Yes Atalji is an old man. Hate to say this but he will probably die in the office. India's main problem is lack of a leader who sees India as a whole and recognizes the right of minorities to exist in India without having to prove their loyalty to India constantly. Rahul, Priyank and Sonia are self-annointed leaders with no experience whatever of leading a complex society as India (I laugh when my Pakistani brethern on GS presume to tell India how to operate, do they have a clue how difficult it is to run India with 14 languages, all the religions of the world, castes and clan mentality, you name it). It is India's misfortune that some of its most secular leaders are also its most corrupt (Laloo Prasad comes to mind) So before you write off Atalji as a "cheap politician" think of what are the alternatives. F & B, just sit down one day, take one of India's problems and explain us how you would solve it. (Start with Kaveri water distribution problem between Karnatak and Tamilnadu) Then multiply that by a thousand and you will get an inkling how difficult it is to rule India.

^ Excellent post, Arvind!

Very true Arvind! I wonder if our Pakistani brethren realise how easy it is to govern Pakistan when compared to India? I am curious to know their views regarding this.

Bravo Arvind. One more thing I want to know if there is any other country in south Asia where democracy has never failed, other than India.

And I think that people of India are more democratic that their leaders.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ehsan: *
If BJP wins do you think Vajpayee will last the whole of the next term? If not, who will be his successor? - Advani?
[/QUOTE]

That's what I was wondering as well. Vajpayee whatever his BJP roots has shown some reason wrt Pakistan. Advani is his successor though and he has always shown extreme hostility in the past. Where is he likely to take India and the peace process if Vajpayee is not around?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *

That's what I was wondering as well. Vajpayee whatever his BJP roots has shown some reason wrt Pakistan. Advani is his successor though and he has always shown extreme hostility in the past. Where is he likely to take India and the peace process if Vajpayee is not around?
[/QUOTE]

Yep... Vajpaye, inspite of his few mistake, is a person of reason and doesnt get into cheap politics. He has a vision. This cant be said about other leaders in BJP..Definitly not Advani. Unfortunately ,considering his health we dont see Vajapayee even compeleting his full 2nd term.

This is an excellent article from Dawn.

http://www.dawn.com/2004/04/24/op.htm#1

New interest in Indian polls

By Afzaal Mahmood

Never in the past fifty years have the people of Pakistan shown such a keen and widespread interest in India’s general election as in the present one that began on April 20 and will conclude in four stages on May 10. The election results will be announced on May 13.

Nearly all opinion polls and analysts suggest that the ruling Bharatya Janata Party (BJP) will emerge again as the single largest party in the 545-seat lower house (Lok Sabha) and form, as before, a coalition government with the National Democratic Alliance (NDA) under the leadership of Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee.

The sheer scale of the Indian poll, described as the greatest show on earth, is mind-boggling: 670 million voters, many thousand candidates and 700,000 polling stations with 1,075,000 electronic machines which promise the remarkable feat of counting all the votes in a matter of hours.

To enable security forces and poll officials to reach their destinations, voting will be divided in four rounds. The whole process will be supervised by a fiercely independent and all-powerful Election Commission to ensure free and fair elections, an institution of which India can be justifiably proud.

Voter turnout in Indian elections has always been high. Of the 670 million voters, more that 400 million of them are expected to turn out at the polling booths to cast their vote.

The average voting percentage in India’s 13 general elections during the period 1952-1999 is a little under 60 which compares favourably with voter participation in most developed countries.

In India, the lowest voting percentage of 55.29 was registered in 1971 and the highest, 63.56, in 1984. The Indian voting percentage looks all the more impressive if we keep in mind that seven to eight per cent of those shown on the electoral rolls cannot cast their vote for a variety of practical reasons. For instance, some of them do not happen to be where they are shown to be resident.

**The BJP is fighting the elections on three slogans: “feeling good” (economic development), “great leader” (Mr Vajpayee has achieved a stature that no other Indian leader can match) and the peace process with Pakistan. **

Also, the party is playing down “Hindu” issues like the Ayodhya temple, and fielding more Muslim candidates than ever before. In addition to that the BJP is trying to exploit the prejudice against the foreign birth of Congress leader, Sonia Gandhi, widow of former prime minister Rajiv Gandhi.

The BJP’s decision to flaunt, in the election campaign, the peace process with Pakistan as one of its achievements indicates an important turnaround in Indian politics. Since 1965, Pakistan-bashing has been the mainstay of India’s electoral politics and the BJP has been in the forefront of such rhetoric.

Even in the last general election held in 1999, the party fully exploited the anti-Pakistan feeling in the post-Kargil period in India. But the current election is being fought on an entirely different platform which only shows that peace with Pakistan has now become a vote-winner in India.

Sonia Gandhi’s Congress, the main rival of BJP, which ruled India for most of its first half century of independence, finds itself today in a tight spot. It used to rely on the support of upper-caste Hindus, Muslims and dalits (untouchables).

Many upper-caste Hindus now vote for the BJP. Muslims have been disillusioned over the years by the “secular” policies of the Congress. The Babri mosque was demolished when a Congress government was in power at the centre. In some important states like Uttar Pradesh, the dalits vote for their own party (Bahujan Samaj Party).

The Congress has, however, overcome in this election its traditional repugnance to “pre-poll alliances” and the new electoral strategy may come to its rescue. It has entered into electoral alliances with local and regional parties in different states, agreeing to share seats with them and thus putting up a united front against the BJP and NDA alliance.

The other hope of the Congress lies in the “ripple effect” from the enthusiasm that has greeted Sonia Gandhi’s son Rahul and daughter Priyanka. Both have been drawing large crowds.

The reason for their popularity is ancestry: their father was Rajiv Gandhi, grandmother Indira Gandhi and great-grand father Jawaharlal Nehru, India’s first prime minister and a national hero.

It remains to be seen if the pre-poll alliances and family charisma will help Sonia Gandhi’s party win more seats in the Lok Sabha than it did in the last election. But the real test of the Congress’s popularity will be in the 103 Lok Sabha constituencies, spread over six states, where it is directly pitted against the BJP, without any regional party offering a distraction.

In the last election, the Congress won only 112 out of 545 seats. Most opinion polls suggest that the maximum number of seats it can win is around 135.

The increasing alienation of Muslim voters from the Congress has contributed to the party’s decline. Muslims, who constitute about 14 per cent of the population, play a crucial role in many constituencies, especially in UP and Bihar. With its 170 million people, UP, India’s largest state, holds 80 out of 545 Lok Sabha seats.

The Congress won only nine seats in UP in the last election and its prospects in the current one do not appear to be any better because it has failed to woo the Muslim or the dalit voter.

The main causes for concern, as far as the Indian Muslims are concerned, are three: security, employment and identity. It is “security” in its most basic sense that they have been concerned with - security of Muslim life, limb and property.

**After Jawaharlal Nehru, the Congress governments have failed to alleviate any of the above noted concerns. It is an irony that the BJP-led government under Mr Vajpayee at the centre has been more successful, as a whole, in maintaining communal harmony than the “secular” Congress governments.

Of course, there have been some blemishes like the Gujarat pogrom, and the anti-Muslim riots in Ahmedabad after the Kargil conflict. But, by and large, Indian Muslims have felt more secure under the BJP rule than under a Congress government.

It is true that under Mr Vajpayee’s leadership the BJP has undergone a quiet transformation in a remarkably short time. His party is now being increasingly associated with modernity, moderation and concern for minorities.

Strong economic growth of the past few years has also convinced many Muslims to put the past behind them and support the BJP in this election. Also, Mr Vajpayee’s efforts to make peace with Pakistan has made Indian Muslims feel less insecure. **

Almost all analysts are agreed that no single party will be able to win an absolute majority in the Lok Sabha and the next government will also be a coalition government. The current trends indicate that the BJP may improve on its showing in the last election in 1999 when it won 182 out of 545 seats in the Lok Sabha.

So in all probability, Mr Vajpayee will again form a coalition government at the centre with the help of NDA. Pakistan will be happy if Mr Atal Behari Vajpayee gets another mandate to become India’s prime minister because that will enable him to take the Islamabad peace process to its logical conclusion: the resolution of contentious issues - which have kept the two neighbours at loggerheads - through sincere and earnest efforts.

It will be a difficult and delicate process. But of all the Indian leaders, it is Mr Vajpayee alone who, with his vision and stature as well as light touch, can turn the page on the Indo-Pakistan conflict.

The write is a former ambassador.