New Delhi: The Army’s top brass is fuming over a secret US report which has labelled its officers as too intellectual and which says its infrastructure is crumbling, a weekly magazine reported.
The US report has further described officers from Pakistan as more flexible, accommodating and easy to work with while calling their Indian counterparts protocol-bound and easily slighted.
The 141-page report titled “Indo-US Relationship: Expectations and Perceptions” is an assessment by the American Defence Department and draws input from Pentagon officials working with the Indian army.
“Indian elites are quintessentially intellectual. They thrive off finely-tuned arguments and logic, but US military outfits are businesslike and not interested in intellectual arguments – they are interested in practical issues,” the report says, according to the magazine.
“Consequently, they find India’s intellectual arrogance off-putting and counter-productive.”
Army officers dismissed the conclusion saying that though their officers were well-educated, most did not have the luxury of time to indulge in intellectual reading or writing until after retirement.
They added that the Indian army routinely served in the fiery heat of its northwestern deserts and at the Siachen mountain range, one of the world’s highest mountain ranges.
“The comparison with Pakistan does not stand. Every Pakistani officer has done time in this or that US academy; they probably have the same military drills. The Indian situation is different,” Brigadier Virender Saxena said.
The report also criticised the Indian army’s infrastructure. “Many American officers observed that while the Indians have a large military and is relatively more sophisticated than others in the region, the vast infrastructure is crumbling,” it said.
One US general described his visit to Indian army headquarters as “walking back in time.”
The Indian army agreed about the need for modernisation of the force but said they were dependent on bureaucracy for funds, similar to any democracy.
New Delhi and Washington have been intensifying military cooperation in the last three years after US lifted sanctions against India for a series of nuclear tests conducted in 1998.
Why Amricka saying this? Americka wanting to make selling more more to India..Because all time India buying guns and misiles Russia. So all money paying to Russsia. Americka also want this ...Also one more secret I think - because Americka started resetion ...so what happen? India give order and americka open factry...worker getting work and resetion better gone...that why Americka saying this and that.
All knowing India army best I think - Americka also saying in same reporting saying India more soficate than Pakistan...
The US report has further described officers from Pakistan as more flexible, accommodating and easy to work with while calling their Indian counterparts protocol-bound and easily slighted.
"Indian elites are quintessentially intellectual. They thrive off finely-tuned arguments and logic, but US military outfits are businesslike and not interested in intellectual arguments -- they are interested in practical issues,"
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Intellectual my as*. I can't imagine dhoti-clad officers chewing the cud over some high falutin' gobbledegook. It's almost laughable that Indian Army officers will be engaged in discussions on teleological fine tuning when sitting in dhotis, eating dhal pakoras, whilst a punkawalla pulls a piece of string to activate the ceiling mounted chatai that doubles as the A/C unit.
No wonder George Fernandez had to order thousands of Aluminium coffins and body bags for the Indian soldiers. The Indian officers were too busy discussing 'Feminism and Postmodernity', whilst their soldiers were being killed by the Mujahideens. :)
Re: Re: Indian Army fumes over critical US report.
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*Originally posted by alooparatha: *
Intellectual my as*. I can't imagine dhoti-clad officers chewing the cud over some high falutin' gobbledegook. It's almost laughable that Indian Army officers will be engaged in discussions on teleological fine tuning when sitting in dhotis, eating dhal pakoras, whilst a punkawalla pulls a piece of string to activate the ceiling mounted chatai that doubles as the A/C unit.
Incredible.
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well this is not true indian officers are good as any yes there is a divide between the officers and the lower ranks but remove this myth of being dhoti clad and eating pakoras
It was a clever leak. The purpose was not to create a sensation. The Pentagon, mother of all psywar operations, wanted the story to percolate down, slowly, to circumvent the most likely possibility of a public uproar in India.
The US strategy becomes clear once we look at it closely: The Pentagon document complains that the Indian establishment, both civilian and military, are suspicious of US intentions and are not willing to think strategically. The aim is to belittle the intellectual and moral courage of the Indian leadership that refuses to kowtow to the diktats of Washington like the General-next-door.
We are suspicious of American intentions, and there are quite strong reasons. Indian military leadership is quite clear about what it wants from the US or any other country interested in a fruitful engagement.
What actually irks the Americans is the Indian military leaders' refusal to jump whenever Washington fires a blank in the air. The Americans have always found it difficult to persuade the Indian military leadership to follow their line and hence the disparaging remarks. Once we accept their plans for opening military bases in India and running their aircraft from our air bases, I am sure the next Pentagon document would find the Indians quite strategically savvy.
I just could not stop laughing at such a ridiculous assertion. It is a fact that India bent over backwards to offer unconditional backing for the US after 9/11, even though it was not asked at all. Then when it was rebuffed it started the longest period of whining seen in international relations. The whining got so embarrassing in the early days that the Times of India had to warn the Vajpayee government that it does not pay to whine in international politics. In our pique at first being ignored and, then displaced from the affections of the US government by a hostile neighbour, we have lost sight of this simple truth.
2b, you may roll on the floor laughing, but that won’t change the truth. Anyway here are excerpts from a relevant article, so i thought i should post
OPINION
MAJ GEN AFSIR KARIM (RETD)
Just A Clueless Uncle
A point-by-point demolition of the secret US report slamming the Indian army
Man to man, the Indian army is better than America’s. The nature of our operations is such that it calls for manpower intensity. There is a Line of Control, there is a Line of Actual Control and there are massive anti-insurgency operations. The forces necessarily have to be large. The Indian army operates on a different scale altogether and it would be a good idea to take some of the Americans to the heights and inaccessible places to make them aware of the harsh ground realities of fighting in the subcontinent. The Americans do not employ manpower-centric tactics and there is a difference in approach here which cannot be seen as value judgement on the Indian army.
The Americans, before they arrive at hasty and questionable conclusions, have to realise that our requirements are totally different. In some of the places where our units are stationed, even highly sophisticated equipment does not work and there is no harm in conceding that the Americans have very advanced technology at their disposal. Certainly much more than us. I remember during the 1962 war, some of the American equipment just did not fire and when we asked questions, the cryptic reply was “information is confidential, we cannot talk”.
The charge that the Indian army is protocol-bound is false. Maybe at the higher corps or division-level, there are norms that need to be followed, but the junior command levels, let us say captains and majors, take their own decisions and are quite open and mix freely. If there is any protocol, those are government rules: the Indian army has to have inhibitions since there are strict instructions not to deal with foreigners. The decisions taken are not entirely in the hands of the military either. It has to depend upon the civilian leadership and this cannot be construed as being status-conscious.
As for the accusation that Indian army officers are not easy to get along with, I don’t think that it is a handicap: I see no reason why army officers have to get along with everyone. That is scarcely an asset, given the nature of the job. And if the Americans look at it that way, you can hardly blame the Indian army. After all, in our five decades of wars and operations, the Americans have always been on the side of our adversaries. So if there is some amount of suspicion, it is understandable.
Again, it is perfectly understandable if the US feels that Pakistanis are easy to get along with. The US-Pakistan army cooperation goes back a long way. In fact, the arming of Pakistan by Americans started way back in the early 1950s leading ultimately to the first military coup in 1958. It is my belief that however much we want to delude ourselves that we are now staunch US allies, it would do well to remember that the Americans will never ditch Pakistan. They have been, and will continue to be, US’ real ally. Euphoric as we may be with our new association with the US, it is important to remember this historical fact.
As for the charge that Indians are not businesslike, there cannot be any sweeping generalisations. I do not know who was detailed to deal with the Americans—chances are that they may have dealt with someone who was not business-like enough—but to use it as the yardstick to assess the whole Indian army is absurd and superficial. I think the important thing right now is for the Americans to look at themselves. In a sense, the US assessment of our army is an eye-opener because it puts into perspective how they perceive us. There is another aside here: just as the Americans have assessed us, we should assess the Americans. I think such an exercise should be undertaken.
Certainly, the point about adequate modernisation is a valid critique. The Indian army operates largely with borrowed equipment and there are natural handicaps. Some of our offices, no doubt, could do with better facilities—particularly some of our field offices.
Another disturbing trend is our willingness to send troops to Iraq to keep the Americans in good humour. But I think it is a move fraught with dangerous implications. It is okay to send logistical troops there—doctors, engineers. But to send a fighting combat division to Iraq is to involve the Indian army in conflict with the civilian population in Iraq. It is most likely that the Indians will be deployed in ‘difficult’ areas—territories not being manned by Americans themselves.
On the whole, I think the US assessment of the Indian army is highly subjective and exaggerated. I would again like to emphasise that we have to be very careful while dealing with the Americans.
You get funnier with every post. It was not my thinking, but it is what the Times of India said at the time, and has been proved entirely correct by India’s incessant whining since. After all it is India’s ministers who go around the world’s capitals telling everyone how “bad” Pakistan is (even though you say want no outside interference in your affairs), not just a clear example of continued Indian whining but a demonstration that India’s military is incapable of achieving it’s aims.
But the fact remains that India offered the US everything after 9/11 without ever being asked, demolishing your entire line of argument in this thread. And India got rebuffed rather badly.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Malik73: *
It was not my thinking, but it is what the **Times of India* said at the time, and has been proved entirely correct by India's incessant whining since.
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I never said it was your thinking! And I did said it was what a journalist in Times of India said at that time, so what's the conflict.
As far as your point of Indian army's aims not being met is concerned, we have two aims : One is what Rvizk said above, to show the world who is who, and the other one is to drain you economically Soviet-style, and we are on right path on both fronts. So Cheers.
So Indian’s fear Pakistani’s? That goes some way to explain the crumbling nature of the Indian military and the globally renowned Indian whining about Pakistan.
Try telling that to the 500 million Indians that are starving or living below the poverty line. While you are at it, also try and justify to them your spend of over $14billion per year on defence, just to keep the Mujahideen away from the valley.
