India will outpace China in the long run

I see many posters on this board in support of China as it is Pakistan’s time tested friend, but they should look at the longer picture too. It’s high timr pakistan gives MFN status to India, and not wait for Kashmir isssue to resolve.

India will outpace China in the long run

The Maverick: India will outpace China in the long run
By Luke Johnson (Filed: 23/04/2006)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2006/04/23/ccluke23.xml&menuId=242&sSheet=/money/2006/04/23/ixcoms.html

The great financial game of the 21st century will be guessing who ends up supreme: China or India. Investors who get this right will make money. To get a better feel as to which horse to back, I went to India recently to see the action. You can almost feel the ambition, energy and potential of a giant nation revving up - and the obstacles it faces.

Short term there can be no contest about who is top dog: China, economically and politically, is a more powerful nation than India. It has a larger population, better infrastructure, much more extensive manufacturing, less poverty, more investment from overseas, and consistently grows faster. But in the medium to long term, things become rather harder to predict.

India has some important things on its side: India is a democracy, the largest in the world, which celebrates the 60th anniversary of its independence next year. China, meanwhile, remains a totalitarian state, where citizens have no vote or automatic right to a passport.

For how long can its communist leaders keep a lid on the growing demands for real freedom from its 1.3bn people? And how easily will its system cope with the inevitable transition? Investors need political stability to ensure returns. China might just blow up one day.

India enjoys the rule of law, an independent judiciary and a framework of established property rights. These are essential bedrocks for a successful capitalist society. Are they present in China? Who knows? Permanent private ownership of assets is still a murky area. The state, the party and the military do what they want. When things go well there are limited problems: but if there are disputes, I would rather rely on the legal process in India than China.

India is younger and its population is growing faster than China’s. Almost 70 per cent of its population is under 35. But China faces the demographic difficulties confronting the West: an ageing population. Within 25 years, India’s population will be greater than China’s.

Indians have learnt to be personal entrepreneurs, especially since key reforms were introduced in 1991. It has hundreds of millions of self-employed people crafting a living, and the billionaire businessmen of recent times have become folk heroes. Meanwhile, China’s export-driven manufacturing boom is largely driven by foreign direct investment, not individual innovation or enterprise.

India has perhaps the most materially successful diaspora anywhere. They are easily the highest achieving minority in both the US and the UK, and reckoned to be 20m-strong globally. In total, people of Indian origin living abroad are estimated to be worth $350bn. Their remittances home are the highest in the world. They represent a massive resource of talent and investment available to help their mother country, dwarfing that of the exiled Chinese.

India has a large, rapidly-growing, vibrant and free media, across the press, television, radio and online. It has an enormous entertainment industry, with Bollywood now easily the world’s second largest film centre. This helps provide its billion-plus citizens with information and hope, and is a way for the public to monitor their politicians. China censors its media extensively.

Indians speak English. It is the de facto national language of the country for those who want to get ahead. Thanks to the might of the US, English has become the language of world commerce; in the era of globalisation and the rise of knowledge industries, this skill will become ever more significant.

China’s state-owned industries and banks may hide huge credit risks, bad loans and deeply unprofitable enterprises. Its dramatic growth is unsustainable if these fears prove real. India has sounder lending institutions and more transparent large public companies.

India does have barriers. It needs huge investment in basic infrastructure like roads, sanitation, electricity generation and education. It needs to handle the menace of corruption more vigorously. It needs to tackle overpopulation and poverty, and to ensure its new-found prosperity is spread across society, not just concentrated amongst the educated elite.

But they are making remarkable progress: growth this year will exceed last year’s 8 per cent; mobile phone users will exceed 150m by year-end.

Britain’s extensive cultural and historic links mean we are well-placed to take advantage of India’s astonishing advance on its way to becoming perhaps the world’s richest nation within my lifetime. Let’s hope we make the most of that relationship.

Luke Johnson is chairman of Channel 4 and Risk Capital Partners

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

Will India or China be the Next Economic Powerhouse?

http://www.ired.com/news/mkt/asia-powerhouse.htm

© 2005, IRED.Com, Inc. Simeon Mitropolitski.

Some 250 ago China and India were the industrial powerhouses of the world, by far exceeding their European competitors. In fact Europe was for centuries nothing more than economic appendix to these two civilizations of artisans. The event that changed their supremacy was the industrial revolution in England. From their top economic positions China and India went to the bottom where they remained between 1850s and 1950s. Different techniques have been used since in order to fix the problem in both countries. It seems that after so many fail starts the globalization and specialization will bounce back these two economies to their rightful positions as industrial powerhouses. More economic forecasts predict that 20-30 years from now there will be only 4 powerful economic centers in the world - United States, United Europe, China and India, each commanding between 15% and 20% of the world economy. Closer analysis shows that India and China have different strong cards to play. Their chances of success aren’t identical. At least one of them may never reach this economic G4.

**
Chinese advantages **

The first advantage of China was that it embraced the economic openness a decade before India. It’s always easier to take new markets than trying to retake them. Given that China and India partly compete for similar markets, e.g. textile, and dollar-shops plastics, these 10 years of advantage represent billions of dollars more investments for China. Another advantage is the literacy rate of more than 90% compared to less than 60% in India. India can solve this problem but it will need one more generation to cope with it. China has considerably better infrastructures according to almost all foreign investors. This saves them money and makes their investment more lucrative all the rest being equal. Chinese population has higher GDP per capita which means that more products can be diverted to local markets in case of international economic crisis. Last but not least, in short term China offers better political environment with seemingly strong authoritarian government suppressing any dissent against economic openness. Investors shouldn’t fear, at least theoretically, trade unions or independent environmentalist organizations. Strong connections with local party leaders are all they need in order to make money.

**
Indian advantages **

Looking at the above-mentioned Chinese advantages it may seem that for India it wouldn’t be easy to catch up, even in 20 years. In fact this country has at least 2-3 particular comparative advantages over its main Asian competitor. If it can play them well, at the end it could perform much better and shift to itself the international attention that China enjoys today. The first is predominant fluency with the English language. With so many official and local languages the English is considered as ethnically neutral. By coincidence at the same time it’s language of the international business community. This time it would take China at least a generation to catch up with India. By that time India will have commanding lead in areas like calling centers and customer services. Another peculiarity in India is the semi-traditional ruling elite. It doesn’t depend on the state for economic survival; it doesn’t need to sell its services to the government in order to occupy decision-making positions. It looks more like the English aristocracy of early 19th century, people that kept control on the land and at the same time made money in the cities.

The importance of such ruling class shouldn’t be overestimated. With millions of peasants going to cities this elite could play stabilizing political role. In the next 20-30 years we’ll see unprecedented migration in the human history. Hundreds of millions of peasants will flee their villages in both Indian and China in search for better life. The business-oriented elite in India can cope with this situation better then the party officials in China. Democratic institutions in India will serve better as buffer for social discontent than naked police reaction in China. India can avoid political earthquakes, although it isn’t guaranteed; in China such quakes are almost unavoidable in the next 15-20 years. Last but not least, India is closer to the West in terms of private property protection. This protection is a matter of law, not of political whim. This law protection seems the most difficult part of the Western way of life to learn. To obey laws and not persons is something much more difficult to get than learning the English or how to make calculations. It will take more than a generation in China to apply it even after the communist regime is gone. And it’s still there and well alive.

India & China comparative profiles:

    * Area: 3.3 & 9.6 million sq km
    * Climate: in both countries varies from tropical to arctic (mountains)
    * Population: 1.06 & 1.30 billion (July 2004 est.)
    * Population growth rate: 1.44% & 0.57% (2004 est.)
    * Life expectancy at birth: 63.99 & 71.96 years
    * Total fertility rate: 2.85 & 1.69 children born/woman (2004 est.)
    * Languages: English, Hindi and 14 other official languages (India); Standard Chinese and Cantonese (China).
    * Literacy: 59.5% & 90.9%
    * GDP per capita: purchasing power parity $2,900 & $5,000 (2004 est.)
    * Population below poverty line: 25% & 10% (2002 est.)
    * Labor force by occupation: agriculture 60% & 50%, services 23% & 28%, industry 17% & 22% (2001)
    * Main trading partners: for both countries US, Japan, EU countries.
    * Internet users: 18.481 & 79.5 million (2003)

http://www.newscientist.com/special/india

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

now another fight will begin.....anyway..but no matter what india will come up and it has to reform itself politcally and economically to achieve higher growth rates. about other countries, no comments.

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

One thing not mentioned there is the efficieny of labor which plays a key role in export competitiveness.Chinese labor is smarter and much more literate than Indian Labor (also pakistani labor).Chinese are able to deliver goods on time and don't make as many mistakes in order processing as Pakistanis and Indians too.I am involved in export of garments, a lot of foreign buyers that I talk to say that chinese,vietnamese etc are much more organised and efficient than us...where we have the advantage over them is the English language ofcourse.

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

http://www.reed-electronics.com/eb-mag/article/CA6328382.html

India is not the new China. It is not and never will be the next-cheaper country to head for in search of the lowest current production costs. Manufacturers using the “least cost” strategy are now moving operations to Vietnam and Indonesia. And there are other Asian countries available when these two become too expensive. The South Koreans have recently set up factories in the demilitarized zone, using North Korean labor.

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

India just doesnt posses the killer instinct that China does.. Plus China has vast deposit of resources that makes it competitive to developed nations while India has millions speaking incorrect English.

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

right now the labour in china is atleast twice as expensive as india or pakistan. But china's infrastructure is almost as good as the developed world. They have great roads, rails and ports. The electricity is much cheaper as well. So they are able to produce goods at a cheaper rate. We HAVE to improve the infrastructure in order to have a big manufacturing base

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

i lost 32% of my investment today in BSE :( just in a single day sigh

market plunged by 800+ points

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

^ i hope thats a joke and not for real :(

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

ChIndia Facts

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

no Furqan its not a joke :( i lost more over last two days... sigh chalo inshaAllah things will be back to normal soon

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

Did you invest or r u a trader?Long term investor need not worry cause the market will recover and reach its highs again.

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

What I have heard is that the SENSEX might come down to 9500, but will rise again. The year end targe is around 13000 - 13500. If you are an investor do not worry.
This is happening in US market (DOW, NASDAQ) as well, I lost in both places (India and US) :( , but I am too not worried for 2 reasons
1. Investment is small :).
2. I am pretty sure it will come back.

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

Why do you have to talk bad about India all the time.
Killer instinct does not mean that governement orders the killing of tens of thousands of students at Tianaman Sq.

I do not know what resources you are talking about, but if it is natural resource then here are the figures
India
coal (fourth-largest reserves in the world), iron ore, manganese, mica, bauxite, titanium ore, chromite, natural gas, diamonds, petroleum, limestone, arable land

China
coal, iron ore, petroleum, natural gas, mercury, tin, tungsten, antimony, manganese, molybdenum, vanadium, magnetite, aluminum, lead, zinc, uranium, hydropower potential (world's largest)

Land Use
India
arable land: 48.83%
permanent crops: 2.8%
other: 48.37% (2005)

Irrigated land: 558,080 sq km (2003) [India is probably the most well irrigated country in the world]

China
**arable land: 14.86%
permanent crops: 1.27%
other: 83.87% (2005)

Irrigated land: 545,960 sq km (2003)
**
Yes millions speak incorrect english, but more than that speak correct english. Still there are still millions who do not speak english at all. So what?

Re: India will outpace China in the long run

Well said Narayan.People keep forgetting the fact that China is communist government and is always at the verge of civil wars which leaves their future uncertain.Also its relations with its neighbours Taiwan and Japan(both economic powers) aren't looking pretty.
On the other hand India with its democracy has survived numerous riots,political shifts etc showing that it could survive the test of time .Also it realtions with its neighbours better than ever.the support its been receiving from the global supremo the US is going to be a major boost to the power sector.