India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

Science & Technology Science & Nature
21

Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

The scarcity of bowl of rice is due to mismanagement of Rice it is not the case that rice is insufficient in the world. Israel manages and maintains its food sufficiency, India is food sufficient but people die of hunger due to poor management of Public distribution system. So whatever rice we feed into this system output is goint to be the same, so better thing is to improve the system, sell the surplus rice and assist in technological advancement :)

22

Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

for a moment it seemed like the girl in your avatar pic have Downs. I was thinking to myself, why would anyone do that? But no, that girl is just a bad b!tch lol

23

Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world…

Finding Life Beyond Earth is Within Reach | NASA

Many scientists believe we are not alone in the universe. It’s probable, they say, that life could have arisen on at least some of the billions of planets thought to exist in our galaxy alone – just as it did here on planet Earth. This basic question about our place in the Universe is one that may be answered by scientific investigations. What are the next steps to finding life elsewhere?
Experts from NASA and its partner institutions addressed this question on July 14, at a public talk held at NASA Headquarters in Washington. They outlined NASA’s roadmap to the search for life in the universe, an ongoing journey that involves a number of current and future telescopes. Watch the video of the event:
Leading science and engineering experts discuss a scientific and technological roadmap to lead to the discovery of potentially habitable worlds among the stars.

Image Credit:
NASA TV

“Sometime in the near future, people will be able to point to a star and say, ‘that star has a planet like Earth’,” says Sara Seager, professor of planetary science and physics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, Massachusetts. “Astronomers think it is very likely that every single star in our Milky Way galaxy has at least one planet.”
NASA’s quest to study planetary systems around other stars started with ground-based observatories, then moved to space-based assets like the Hubble Space Telescope, the Spitzer Space Telescope, and the Kepler Space Telescope. Today’s telescopes can look at many stars and tell if they have one or more orbiting planets. Even more, they can determine if the planets are the right distance away from the star to have liquid water, the key ingredient to life as we know it.
The NASA roadmap will continue with the launch of the Transiting Exoplanet Surveying Satellite (TESS) in 2017, the James Webb Space Telescope (Webb Telescope) in 2018, and perhaps the proposed Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope - Astrophysics Focused Telescope Assets (WFIRST-AFTA) early in the next decade. These upcoming telescopes will find and characterize a host of new exoplanets – those planets that orbit other stars – expanding our knowledge of their atmospheres and diversity. The Webb telescope and WFIRST-AFTA will lay the groundwork, and future missions will extend the search for oceans in the form of atmospheric water vapor and for life as in carbon dioxide and other atmospheric chemicals, on nearby planets that are similar to Earth in size and mass, a key step in the search for life.
“This technology we are using to explore exoplanets is real,” said John Grunsfeld, astronaut and associate administrator for NASA’s Science Mission Directorate in Washington. “The James Webb Space Telescope and the next advances are happening now. These are not dreams – this is what we do at NASA.”
Since its launch in 2009, Kepler has dramatically changed what we know about exoplanets, finding most of the more than 5,000 potential exoplanets, of which more than 1700 have been confirmed. The Kepler observations have led to estimates of billions of planets in our galaxy, and shown that most planets within one astronomical unit are less than three times the diameter of Earth. Kepler also found the first Earth-size planet to orbit in the “habitable zone” of a star, the region where liquid water can pool on the surface.

“What we didn’t know five years ago is that perhaps 10 to 20 percent of stars around us have Earth-size planets in the habitable zone,” says Matt Mountain, director and Webb telescope scientist at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore. “It’s within our grasp to pull off a discovery that will change the world forever. It is going to take a continuing partnership between NASA, science, technology, the U.S. and international space endeavors, as exemplified by the James Webb Space Telescope, to build the next bridge to humanity’s future.”

This decade has seen the discovery of more and more super Earths, which are rocky planets that are larger and heftier than Earth. Finding smaller planets, the Earth twins, is a tougher challenge because they produce fainter signals. Technology to detect and image these Earth-like planets is being developed now for use with the future space telescopes.

The ability to detect alien life may still be years or more away, but the quest is underway.

Said Mountain, “Just imagine the moment, when we find potential signatures of life. Imagine the moment when the world wakes up and the human race realizes that its long loneliness in time and space may be over – the possibility we’re no longer alone in the universe.”

24

Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

For those who are so worried about poverty stricken India and humanity, please tell me how much do you do to eliminate hunger from this world? You do realize that not everybody is running an NGO, right? How do you know where the funding is coming from? And if you don't, why the eff are you even commenting on something you don't know? Jal Kerr Rakh hojao..

25

Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world…

This is taken from NASA site.I have bolded a statement and it shows our perspectives about the outer space are changing.Do you really believe ,we,`earthiens’ are the only creatures in this world?

Also the TMT(Thirt Meter Telescope)will not hold it’s record for the largest Telescope in the world for a long time. There is a a 42 Meter Telescope is being built by the Europen Southern Observatory (ESO)and it is known as European Extremely Large Telescope.

Finding Life Beyond Earth is Within Reach | NASA

Many scientists believe we are not alone in the universe. It’s probable, they say, that life could have arisen on at least some of the billions of planets thought to exist in our galaxy alone – just as it did here on planet Earth. This basic question about our place in the Universe is one that may be answered by scientific investigations. What are the next steps to finding life elsewhere?
Experts from NASA and its partner institutions addressed this question on July 14, at a public talk held at NASA Headquarters in Washington. They outlined NASA’s roadmap to the search for life in the universe, an ongoing journey that involves a number of current and future telescopes. Watch the video of the event:
Leading science and engineering experts discuss a scientific and technological roadmap to lead to the discovery of potentially habitable worlds among the stars.

Image Credit:
NASA TV

“Sometime in the near future, people will be able to point to a star and say, ‘that star has a planet like Earth’,” says Sara Seager, professor of planetary science and physics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, Massachusetts. “Astronomers think it is very likely that every single star in our Milky Way galaxy has at least one planet.”
NASA’s quest to study planetary systems around other stars started with ground-based observatories, then moved to space-based assets like the Hubble Space Telescope, the Spitzer Space Telescope, and the Kepler Space Telescope. Today’s telescopes can look at many stars and tell if they have one or more orbiting planets. Even more, they can determine if the planets are the right distance away from the star to have liquid water, the key ingredient to life as we know it.
The NASA roadmap will continue with the launch of the Transiting Exoplanet Surveying Satellite (TESS) in 2017, the James Webb Space Telescope (Webb Telescope) in 2018, and perhaps the proposed Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope - Astrophysics Focused Telescope Assets (WFIRST-AFTA) early in the next decade. These upcoming telescopes will find and characterize a host of new exoplanets – those planets that orbit other stars – expanding our knowledge of their atmospheres and diversity. The Webb telescope and WFIRST-AFTA will lay the groundwork, and future missions will extend the search for oceans in the form of atmospheric water vapor and for life as in carbon dioxide and other atmospheric chemicals, on nearby planets that are similar to Earth in size and mass, a key step in the search for life.
“This technology we are using to explore exoplanets is real,” said John Grunsfeld, astronaut and associate administrator for NASA’s Science Mission Directorate in Washington. “The James Webb Space Telescope and the next advances are happening now. These are not dreams – this is what we do at NASA.”
Since its launch in 2009, Kepler has dramatically changed what we know about exoplanets, finding most of the more than 5,000 potential exoplanets, of which more than 1700 have been confirmed. The Kepler observations have led to estimates of billions of planets in our galaxy, and shown that most planets within one astronomical unit are less than three times the diameter of Earth. Kepler also found the first Earth-size planet to orbit in the “habitable zone” of a star, the region where liquid water can pool on the surface.

“What we didn’t know five years ago is that perhaps 10 to 20 percent of stars around us have Earth-size planets in the habitable zone,” says Matt Mountain, director and Webb telescope scientist at the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore. “It’s within our grasp to pull off a discovery that will change the world forever. It is going to take a continuing partnership between NASA, science, technology, the U.S. and international space endeavors, as exemplified by the James Webb Space Telescope, to build the next bridge to humanity’s future.”

This decade has seen the discovery of more and more super Earths, which are rocky planets that are larger and heftier than Earth. Finding smaller planets, the Earth twins, is a tougher challenge because they produce fainter signals. Technology to detect and image these Earth-like planets is being developed now for use with the future space telescopes.

The ability to detect alien life may still be years or more away, but the quest is underway.

Said Mountain, “Just imagine the moment, when we find potential signatures of life. Imagine the moment when the world wakes up and the human race realizes that its long loneliness in time and space may be over – the possibility we’re no longer alone in the universe.”

26

Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world…

@TLK ..Jii… signs of life can be even the presence of Oxygen… Right?

European Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and also

The telescope big enough to spot signs of alien life on other planets | Science | The Observer

European Extremely Large Telescope

                                                          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                                                                                                                [TABLE="class: infobox vcard, width: 22"]

[TH=“class: fn org, colspan: 2, align: center”]European Extremely Large Telescope (E-ELT)[/TH]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/The_European_Extremely_Large_Telescope.jpg/300px-The_European_Extremely_Large_Telescope.jpg

Image Credit: ESO

[TH=“align: left”]Organization[/TH]
ESO

[TH=“align: left”]Location[/TH]
Cerro Armazones, Chile, near Paranal Observatory

[TH=“align: left”]Coordinates[/TH]

24°35′20″S 70°11′32″WCoordinates:

24°35′20″S 70°11′32″W

[TH=“align: left”]Altitude[/TH]
3,060 m[SUP][1]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]

[TH=“align: left”]Weather[/TH]
89% clear fraction,[SUP][2]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] 0.67″ median seeing at 500nm[SUP][3]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]

[TH=“align: left”]Wavelength[/TH]
Visible, near infrared

[TH=“align: left”]Built[/TH]
Construction start: July 2014[SUP][4]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
Planned completion: 2022[SUP][5]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
First light: 2024[SUP][6]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]

[TH=“align: left”]Telescope style[/TH]
Reflector

[TH=“align: left”]Diameter[/TH]
39.3 m (129 ft)

[TH=“align: left”]Secondary dia.[/TH]
4.0906 m (13.4 ft)[SUP][7]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP]:124[/SUP]

[TH=“align: left”]Tertiary dia.[/TH]
3.75 m (12.3 ft)[SUP][7]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP]:134[/SUP]

[TH=“align: left”]Angular resolution[/TH]
0.001 to 0.65 arcseconds depending on instrument

[TH=“align: left”]Collecting area[/TH]
978 m[SUP]2[/SUP]

[TH=“align: left”]Focal length[/TH]
34.5 m (f/0.88) primary[SUP][7]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP]:94[/SUP]
420–840 m (f/10 – f/20) final

[TH=“align: left”]Mounting[/TH]
Nasmyth mount

[TH=“align: left”]Website[/TH]
ESO E-ELT

The European Extremely Large Telescope (E-ELT) is a ground-based extremely large telescope for the optical/near-infrared range, currently being built by the European Southern Observatory (ESO) on top of Cerro Armazones in the Atacama Desert of northern Chile. The design comprises a reflecting telescope with a 39.3 metre diameter segmented primary mirror, a 4.2 metre diameter secondary mirror, and will be supported by adaptive optics and multiple instruments.[SUP][5]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] It is expected to allow astronomers to probe the earliest stages of the formation of planetary systems and to detect water and organic molecules in proto-planetary discs around stars in the making.[SUP][8]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
On 11 June 2012, the ESO Council approved the E-ELT programme’s plans to begin construction of the telescope, pending agreement with the governments of some member states.[SUP][9]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Construction work on the E-ELT site started in June 2014.[SUP][4]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
Contents

History

On 26 April 2010, the European Southern Observatory (ESO) Council selected Cerro Armazones, Chile, as the baseline site for the planned E-ELT.[SUP][10]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Other sites that were under discussion included Cerro Macon, Salta, in Argentina; Roque de los Muchachos Observatory, on the Canary Islands; and sites in South Africa, Morocco, and Antarctica.[SUP][11]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][12]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
Early designs included a segmented primary mirror with a diameter of 42 metres and area of about 1,300 m[SUP]2[/SUP], with a secondary mirror with a diameter of 5.9 m. However, in 2011 a proposal was put forward to reduce its size by 13% to 978 m[SUP]2[/SUP], for a 39.3 m diameter primary mirror and a 4.2 m diameter secondary mirror.[SUP][5]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] It reduced projected costs from 1.275 billion to 1.055 billion euros and should allow the telescope to be finished sooner. The smaller secondary is a particularly important change; 4.2 m places it within the capabilities of multiple manufacturers, and the lighter mirror unit avoids the need for high-strength materials in the secondary mirror support spider.[SUP][7]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP]:15[/SUP]
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/The_ESO_Council_during_their_meeting_in_Garching_on_11%E2%80%9312_June_2012.jpg/220px-The_ESO_Council_during_their_meeting_in_Garching_on_11%E2%80%9312_June_2012.jpg The ESO Council during their meeting in Garching on 11–12 June 2012.[SUP][13]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]

ESO’s Director General commented in a 2011 press release that “With the new E-ELT design we can still satisfy the bold science goals and also ensure that the construction can be completed in only 10–11 years.”[SUP][14]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The ESO Council endorsed the revised baseline design in June 2011 and expected a construction proposal for approval in December 2011.[SUP][14]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Funding was subsequently included in the 2012 budget for initial work to begin in early 2012.[SUP][15]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The project received preliminary approval in June 2012, with full funding still needing to be worked out.[SUP][9]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
The design phase of the 5-mirror anastigmat was fully funded within the ESO budget. With the recent changes in the baseline design (such as a reduction in the size of the primary mirror from 42 m to 39.3 m), the construction cost is estimated to be €1.055 billion (including first generation instruments). The start of operations is planned for the mid-2020s.[SUP][16]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
Goals and planning

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Cerro_Armazones_night-time_panorama.jpg/220px-Cerro_Armazones_night-time_panorama.jpg A real night-time panorama of Cerro Armazones, chosen in April 2010.

The ESO focused on the current design after a feasibility study concluded the proposed 100 metres (330 ft) diameter Overwhelmingly Large Telescope would cost €1.5 billion (£1 billion), and be too complex. Current fabrication technology limits single mirrors to being roughly 8 metres (26 ft) in a single piece. The next-largest telescopes currently in use are the Keck Telescopes, the Gran Telescopio Canarias and the Southern African Large Telescope, which each use hexagonal mirrors fitted together to make a mirror more than 10 metres (33 ft) across. The E-ELT will use a similar design, as well as techniques to work around atmospheric distortion of incoming light, known as adaptive optics.[SUP][17]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
A 40m-class mirror will allow the study of the atmospheres of extrasolar planets.[SUP][18]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The E-ELT is the highest priority in the European planning activities for research infrastructures, such as the Astronet Science Vision and Infrastructure Roadmap and the ESFRI Roadmap.[SUP][19]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The telescope underwent a Phase B study in the past couple of years that included "contracts with industry to design and manufacture prototypes of key elements like the primary mirror segments, the adaptive fourth mirror or the mechanical structure (…) [and] concept studies for eight instruments.”[SUP][20]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
Design

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Eelt_night5krerender_potw.jpg/220px-Eelt_night5krerender_potw.jpg Render of the 40-metre class E-ELT at dusk
Image credit ESO.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/The_E-ELT_from_above.jpg/220px-The_E-ELT_from_above.jpg Render of the E-ELT from above
Image credit ESO.

The telescope’s “eye” will be 39.3 meters in diameter and will gather 15 times more light than the largest optical telescopes operating at the time of its development. The telescope has an innovative five-mirror design that includes advanced adaptive optics to correct for the turbulent atmosphere, giving exceptional image quality.[SUP][17]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
The primary mirror for the 39.3 metre design will be composed of 798 hexagonal segments, each 1.45 meters across but only 50 mm thick. A special correcting mirror in the telescope will be supported by more than 6,000 actuators that can distort its shape a thousand times per second.[SUP][21]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The telescope main structure will weigh about 2,800 tons.[SUP][22]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
Science goals

Play media
This is the official trailer for the E-ELT. The design for the E-ELT shown here is preliminary.

The E-ELT will search for extrasolar planets — planets orbiting other stars. This will include not only the discovery of planets down to Earth-like masses through indirect measurements of the wobbling motion of stars perturbed by the planets that orbit them, but also the direct imaging of larger planets and possibly even the characterisation of their atmospheres.[SUP][23]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The telescope will attempt to image Earthlike exoplanets, which may be possible.[SUP][5]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
Furthermore, the E-ELT’s suite of instruments will allow astronomers to probe the earliest stages of the formation of planetary systems and to detect water and organic molecules in protoplanetary discs around stars in the making. Thus, the E-ELT will answer fundamental questions regarding planet formation and evolution and will bring us one step closer to answering the biggest question in human history: are we alone?[SUP][8]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
By probing the most distant objects the E-ELT will provide clues to understanding the formation of the first objects that formed: primordial stars, primordial galaxies and black holes and their relationships. Studies of extreme objects like black holes will benefit from the power of the E-ELT to gain more insight into time-dependent phenomena linked with the various processes at play around compact objects.[SUP][23]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
The E-ELT is designed to make detailed studies of the first galaxies and to follow their evolution through cosmic time. Observations of these early galaxies with the E-ELT will give clues that will help understand how these objects form and evolve. In addition, the E-ELT will be a unique tool for making an inventory of the changing content of the various elements in the Universe with time, and to understand star formation history in galaxies.[SUP][24]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
One of the goals of the E-ELT is the possibility of making a direct measurement of the acceleration of the Universe’s expansion. Such a measurement would have a major impact on our understanding of the Universe. The E-ELT will also search for possible variations in the fundamental physical constants with time. An unambiguous detection of such variations would have far-reaching consequences for our comprehension of the general laws of physics.[SUP][24]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
Instrumentation

Play media
This video shows engineers adjusting the complex support mechanisms that control the shape and positioning of two of the 798 segments that will form the complete primary mirror of the telescope.

The telescope will have several science instruments. It will be possible to switch from one instrument to another within minutes. The telescope and dome will also be able to change positions on the sky and start a new observation in a very short time.
Eight different instrument concepts and two post-focal adaptive modules are currently being studied, with the aim that two to three will be ready for first light, with the others becoming available at various points over the following decade.[SUP][25]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The instruments being studied are:

The two post-focal adaptive optics modules currently being studied are:

Comparison

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Comparison_optical_telescope_primary_mirrors.svg/300px-Comparison_optical_telescope_primary_mirrors.svg.png Comparison of nominal sizes of primary mirrors of the European Extremely Large Telescope and some notable optical telescopes (click for detail)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Comparison_optical_telescope_primary_mirrors.svg)

One of the largest ground-based telescope operating today is the Gran Telescopio Canarias, with a 10.4 m aperture and a light-collecting area of 74 m[SUP]2[/SUP]. Other planned extremely large telescopes include, the 25 m/368 m[SUP]2[/SUP] Giant Magellan Telescope and 30 m/655 m[SUP]2[/SUP] Thirty Meter Telescope, which are also targeting the end of this decade or beginning of the next for completion. These other two telescopes roughly belong to the same next generation of optical ground-based telescopes.[SUP][39]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Extremely_Large_Telescope#cite_note-GMT_Overview-39)[/SUP][SUP][40]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Extremely_Large_Telescope#cite_note-About_TMT-40)[/SUP] Each design is much larger than previous telescopes.[SUP][5]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] Even with the descale to 39.3 m it is significantly larger than these other planned observatories; it is the largest of the planned new generation extremely large telescopes.[SUP][5]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP] It has the aim of observing the Universe in greater detail than the Hubble Space Telescope by taking images 15 times sharper, although it is designed to be complementary to space telescopes, which typically have very limited time available.[SUP][18]](Extremely Large Telescope - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
[TABLE=“class: wikitable sortable jquery-tablesorter”]

[TH=“class: headerSort”]Name[/TH]
[TH=“class: headerSort”]Aperture diameter (m)[/TH]
[TH=“class: headerSort”]Collecting area (m²)[/TH]

E-ELT
39.3
978

Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT)
30
655

Giant Magellan Telescope (GMT)
24.5
368

Southern African Large Telescope (SALT)
11.1 × 9.8
79

Keck Telescopes
10.0
76

Gran Telescopio Canarias (GTC)
10.4
74

The 4.2 meter secondary mirror is the same size as the primary mirror on the William Herschel Telescope, the second largest optical telescope in Europe.
Stills

The images below show artistic renderings of the E-ELT and were produced by ESO.

Diagram of the 40m-class E-ELT primary mirror.

E-ELT compared with one of the four existing VLT Unit Telescopes at Cerro Paranal, Chile

Rendering of E-ELT during the day.

Model of the gigantic and intricate structure inside the enclosure of the E-ELT.

Video

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/E-ELT_Laser_Guide_Star.ogv/320px--E-ELT_Laser_Guide_Star.ogv.jpg

Play media

Artist’s impression of the European Extremely Large Telescope (E-ELT) in its enclosure on Cerro Armazones during night-time observations. The four beams shooting skywards are lasers that create artificial stars high in the Earth’s atmosphere.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/The_E-ELT_gets_ready_for_action_(artist's_impression).ogv/320px--The_E-ELT_gets_ready_for_action_(artist's_impression).ogv.jpg

Play media

This video shows an artist’s impression of the European Extremely Large Telescope, the E-ELT. The protective dome is seen opening for a night observing the optical and infrared skies.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/The_E-ELT_in_Action_(artist's_impression).ogv/320px--The_E-ELT_in_Action_(artist's_impression).ogv.jpg

Play media

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/ff/Fly-over_of_the_planned_road_to_armazones.ogg/320px--Fly-over_of_the_planned_road_to_armazones.ogg.jpg

Play media

An 3D view of the new road to Cerro Armazones area in the Chilean desert. The road extends from the public Route B-710 to the top of the mountain where the European Extremely Large Telescope (E-ELT) will sit.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/E-ELT_Groundbreaking_event.ogg/320px--E-ELT_Groundbreaking_event.ogg.jpg

Play media

On 19 June 2014, a major milestone towards construction of the E-ELT was reached. Part of Cerro Armazones was blasted. This video provides a closer look at the event. Note that only natural sound is provided.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Flattening_the_Cerro_Armazones.ogg/320px--Flattening_the_Cerro_Armazones.ogg.jpg

Play media

Numerous construction workers using heavy machinery working in the Atacama Desert to flatten the top of the mountain for a platform large enough to host the E-ELT with its main mirror of 39.2-metres in diameter.

Comparable instruments

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Artist%27s_impression_of_the_E-ELT_and_the_starry_night_sky.jpg/220px-Artist%27s_impression_of_the_E-ELT_and_the_starry_night_sky.jpg Artist’s impression of the E-ELT and the starry night sky.[SUP][41]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Extremely_Large_Telescope#cite_note-41)[/SUP]

See also

Email](http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/apr/20/spot-alien-life-european-extremely-large-telescope-chilean#)

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[LIST]

  •                                                        [Robin McKie](http://www.theguardian.com/profile/robinmckie), Observer science editor 

  •          [The Observer](http://observer.guardian.co.uk/),                             Saturday 19 April 2014 19.55 BST 

  •          [Jump to comments (279)](http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/apr/20/spot-alien-life-european-extremely-large-telescope-chilean#start-of-comments)

[/LIST]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/4/10/1397152616762/An-artists-impression-of--011.jpg

An artist’s impression of the European Extremely Large Telescope (E-ELT).

                     Cerro Armazones is a crumbling dome of rock that dominates the  parched peaks of the Chilean Coast Range north of Santiago. A couple of  old concrete platforms and some rusty pipes, parts of the mountain's old  weather station, are the only hints that humans have ever taken an  interest in this forbidding, arid place. Even the views look alien, with  the surrounding boulder-strewn desert bearing a remarkable resemblance  to the landscape of Mars.

Dramatic change is coming to Cerro Armazones, however – for in a few weeks, the 10,000ft mountain is going to have its top knocked off. “We are going to blast it with dynamite and then carry off the rubble,” says engineer Gerd Hudepohl. “We will take about 80ft off the top of the mountain to create a plateau – and when we have done that, we will build the world’s biggest telescope there.”
Given the peak’s remote, inhospitable location that might sound an improbable claim – except for the fact that Hudepohl has done this sort of thing before. He is one of the European Southern Observatory’s most experienced engineers and was involved in the decapitation of another nearby mountain, Cerro Paranal, on which his team then erected one of the planet’s most sophisticated observatories.
The Paranal complex has been in operation for more than a decade and includes four giant instruments with eight-metre-wide mirrors – known as the Very Large Telescopes or VLTs – as well as control rooms and a labyrinth of underground tunnels linking its instruments. More than 100 astronomers, engineers and support staff work and live there. A few dozen metres below the telescopes, they have a sports complex with a squash court, an indoor football pitch, and a luxurious 110-room residence that has a central swimming pool and a restaurant serving meals and drinks around the clock. Built overlooking one of the world’s driest deserts, the place is an amazing oasis. (See box.)
Now the European Southern Observatory, of which Britain is a key member state, wants Hudepohl and his team to repeat this remarkable trick and take the top off Cerro Armazones, which is 20km distant. Though this time they will construct an instrument so huge it will dwarf all the telescopes on Paranal put together, and any other telescope on the planet. When completed, the European Extremely Large Telescope (E-ELT) and its 39-metre mirror will allow astronomers to peer further into space and look further back into the history of the universe than any other astronomical device in existence. Its construction will push telescope-making to its limit, however. Its primary mirror will be made of almost 800 segments – each 1.4 metres in diameter but only a few centimetres thick – which will have to be aligned with microscopic precision.
It is a remarkable juxtaposition: in the midst of utter desolation, scientists have built giant machines engineered to operate with smooth perfection and are now planning to top this achievement by building an even more vast device. The question is: for what purpose? Why go to a remote wilderness in northern Chile and chop down peaks to make homes for some of the planet’s most complex scientific hardware?
The answer is straightforward, says Cambridge University astronomer Professor Gerry Gilmore. It is all about water. "The atmosphere here is as dry as you can get and that is critically important. Water molecules obscure the view from telescopes on the ground. It is like trying to peer through mist – for mist is essentially a suspension of water molecules in the air, after all, and they obscure your vision. For a telescope based at sea level that is a major drawback.
“However, if you build your telescope where the atmosphere above you is completely dry, you will get the best possible views of the stars – and there is nowhere on Earth that has air drier than this place. For good measure, the high-altitude winds blow in a smooth, laminar manner above Paranal – like slabs of glass – so images of stars remain remarkably steady as well.”
The view of the heavens here is close to perfect, in other words – as an evening stroll around the viewing platform on Paranal demonstrates vividly. During my visit, the Milky Way hung over the observatory like a single white sheet. I could see the four main stars of the Southern Cross; Alpha Centauri, whose unseen companion Proxima Centauri is the closest star to our solar system; the two Magellanic Clouds, satellite galaxies of our own Milky Way; and the Coalsack, an interstellar dust cloud that forms a striking silhouette against the starry Milky Way. None are visible in northern skies and none appear with such brilliance anywhere else on the planet.
Hence the decision to build this extraordinary complex of VLTs. At sunset, each one’s housing is opened and the four great telescopes are brought slowly into operation. Each machine is made to rotate and swivel, like football players stretching muscles before a match. Each housing is the size of a block of flats. Yet they move in complete silence, so precise is their engineering.
Building the four VLTs, which have been named Antu (Sun), Kueyen (Moon), Melipal (Southern Cross) and Yepun (Venus) in the language of Mapuche people of Chile, was a formidable challenge, needless to say. Each has a giant mirror that is 8.2 metres in diameter but only 17cm thick: any thicker, and the mirror would be too heavy to move and point. Such thinness leaves the mirrors liable to deform as temperatures and air pressure fluctuate, however, and so each has 150 actuators fitted to its unpolished side. These push the mirrors to keep them within a few billionths of a centimetre of their proper shape. In addition, ESO astronomers use a laser-based system known as adaptive optics to measure turbulence in the upper atmosphere and to change each telescope’s internal mirror configuration to compensate for any disturbance they can measure.
The result is a cluster of astronomical devices of incredible power and flexibility, one that has been involved in an astonishing number of critically important discoveries and observations over the past decade, as ESO astronomer Olivier Hainaut explains. “Perhaps the VLT’s most spectacular achievement was its tracking of stars at the centre of the Milky Way. Astronomers followed them as they revolved around… nothing. Eventually they were able to show that something incredibly small and dark and massive lay at the centre of this interstellar waltz. This was the first time, we now know, that scientists had directly observed the effect of the supermassive black hole that lies at the heart of our galaxy.”

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/4/10/1397152788888/The-Milky-Way-seen-from-t-006.jpg

The Milky Way seen from the Paranal Observatory in Chile. Photograph: National Geographic Image Collec/Alamy The VLTs also played a key role in providing observations which showed, from the behaviour of distant supernovae, that the expansion of the universe was actually accelerating thanks to the action of a force now known as dark energy. This discovery later won Saul Perlmutter, Brian Schmidt and Adam Riess the 2011 Nobel prize for physics. And in 2004 the telescopes were used to make a direct observation of an exoplanet – a planet that orbits around a star other than our Sun. It was another astronomical first. Until then scientists had only been able to infer the existence of exoplanets from the way they affected the movement of their parent star or its light output. “This was history-book material, a discovery of the same quality as Galileo’s drawings of the mountains on the moon or the satellites of Jupiter,” says Hainaut.
These discoveries have only whetted astronomers’ appetites for more, however. Hence the decision to build the £800m E-ELT – whose British funding will come through a £88m investment from the UK Science & Technology Facilities Council. Engineers have now completed a road to the mountain from Paranal and on 16 June are set to begin blasting to remove the top from Cerro Armazones. Then they will start to build the E-ELT using 798 hexagonal pieces of mirror to create a mammoth device that will be able to collect a hundred million times more light than the human eye. When completed in around 2025, the 2,700-tonne telescope will be housed in a 74 metre high dome and operated by astronomers working 20kms away in Paranal. It will be the world’s biggest eye on the sky.
An indication of the E-ELT’s potential is provided by ESO astronomer Linda Schmidtobreick. “There are fundamental issues that only a telescope the size of the E-ELT can resolve,” she says. “Its mirror will have a surface area 10 times bigger than any other telescope, which means it will take a 10th of the time to collect the same amount of light – ie the same number of photons – from an object compared with these other instruments.”

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/4/15/1397558292662/Robin-001.jpg

The astronomers’ residence: ‘As accommodation goes, it’s as exotic as you can get.’ For Schmidtobreick, this ability to collect light quickly is crucial to her research. She studies stars known as cataclysmic variables: pairs of stars in which one is pulling vast amounts of gas, mainly hydrogen, from its companion, a process that can trigger gigantic thermonuclear eruptions, sometimes within 30 seconds or so. “With current instruments, it can take minutes or hours to collect light from these objects, which is too long to resolve what is happening,” says Schmidtobreick. “But with the E-ELT, we will be able to study many, many more cataclysmic variables because we will be able to collect significant amounts of light from them in seconds rather than minutes or hours and so will be to resolve their behaviour.”
Simone Zaggia, of the Inaf Observatory of Padua, is another frequent visitor to Paranal and has a very different reason for backing the E-ELT. He believes it will play a vital role in the hunt for exoplanets – in particular, exoplanets that are Earth-like and which could support life. “At present, our biggest telescopes can only spot really big exoplanets, giants that are as big as Jupiter and Saturn,” he says.
“But we really want to know about the smaller worlds that make up the solar systems in our galaxy. In other words, we want to find out if there are many Earth-like planets in our part of the universe. More importantly we want to find out if their atmospheres contain levels of oxygen or carbon dioxide or methane or other substances that suggest there is life there. To do that, we need a giant telescope like the E-ELT.”
This point is backed by Gilmore. “We can see exoplanets but we cannot study them in detail because – from our distant perspective – they appear so close to their parent stars. However, the magnification which the E-ELT will provide will mean we will be able to look at them directly and clearly. In 15 years, we should have a picture of a planet around another star and that picture could show its surface changing colour just as Earth does as the seasons change – indicating that vegetation exists on that world. We will then have found alien life.”

                                **Astronomers' amazing home**

             A walk down the alleyway that leads from Paranal observatory's  entrance gate into its astronomers' residence produces one of the most  striking changes in  surroundings you can experience in a few footsteps.  Outside the air is parched and the ground bleached by sunlight from a  sky that is hardly ever troubled by clouds. Push through the double  swing doors and you enter a rainforest – and a path that leads down  through towering ferns and tropical plants until you reach a swimming  pool in the residence's lowest level. As accommodation goes, it's as  exotic as you can get - though hedonism was far from the minds of the  architects when they designed it.

To battle the arid conditions of the air at 8,600ft-high Paranal, they wanted a way to keep it moist and fresh for the scientists staying there. The answer was a swimming pool and an indoor tropical garden that is constantly watered with supplies imported by trucks from the coast every day. Moist air from the pool and garden then circulates around the rest of the residence. The result is a building that is remarkably airy and light – until 7pm when, every night, all openings and windows, including the vast glass dome over the pool, are closed and shuttered automatically to prevent any chink of light from affecting observations made on the mountain top.
The scale and style of Paranal and its residence is extraordinary and movie producers have fallen over themselves in their attempts to film it. Most have been turned down – with the exception of the 2008 Bond film, Quantum of Solace](http://www.theguardian.com/film/movie/122628/quantum.of.solace), whose final scenes were filmed here. (In contrast the last X-Men film was turned down flat because its producers wanted to fly helicopters near the observatory’s precious telescope complex.) Given the vast cost of building and running Paranal, filming was not allowed to disturb its tight observing schedule. “I was woken up by the sound of someone repeatedly jumping on to the balcony in the room next to mine,” one astronomer recalls. “It turned out to be the actress Olga Kurylenko - who plays the film’s heroine Camille. It was quite a shock. I mean you don’t get that sort thing happening at other observatories.”

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

I get TLK's question. I don't think they are actually saying they will observe the signs of life on exoplanets from this telescope on earth. They will probably launch a similar telescope in the outer space once exoplanets are observed more closely with these new advanced telescopes. It is a step in the right direction.

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world…

Diwana,are you time traveler? I mean in a reverse mode?Yo straight away jumped in to 2014 from 1954.

 Do you know that China was one of the poorest countries in the world until 1976?Within a span of 38 years it has become a global force.How?The policy changes implemented by the central command,that is Chinese Communist Party.It simply opened China's doors to the foreign world,which was forbidding itself from the rest of the world.So an audacious government can do any wonder.If China can do it,India can do it much better ,with the kind of resources and the intelligent man power it has gotAlready India is competing China in a myriad of areas and China is not even a match for our **MARS SUCCESS. **

    Hope,you know that India is a Polio free country.(I hope you what I mean by this statement).

So when you are criticizing India for poverty,you need to slightly pan your face to your own country.I am not here to criticize Pakistan but here are the facts and figures,exclusively for you..

Rising poverty in Pakistan

Rising poverty in Pakistan

                      Pakistan’s progress on achieving the MDGs is disappointing. Reports  prepared by national and international bodies show that Pakistan will  not be able to reach the MDGs by 2015, as it is short of almost all its  targets on the time scale          
                                                                                             [http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/author_picture/85/salman-ali_1400280913.jpg](http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/Columnist/salman-ali)                              

  •                                                                                   [Salman Ali](http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/Columnist/salman-ali) 

  •                                          June 14, 2014 

  •                                                       [Be First To Comment](http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/opinion/14-Jun-2014/rising-poverty-in-pakistan#disqus_thread) 


      
                                                                                                                                                                                                              
                     
                                                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                                   
                     
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  
                  
             
                                                   
                           
                                 
                                                  Poverty is not a new phenomenon in Pakistan as  every third Pakistani is caught in the ‘poor’ bracket, i.e. some 58.7  million out of a total population of 180 million subsist below the  poverty line. This includes more than half the population in the forever  remote Balochistan, 33 percent in Sindh, 32 percent in Khyber  Pakhtunkhwa (KP) and 19 percent in Punjab. These are daunting figures  for every Pakistani. According to the report Pakistan Living Standards  Measurement (PLSM), survey data have registered a decline in the poverty  headcount from 34.5 percent to 12.4 percent in 10 years. Though this  indicates a lot of progress towards poverty alleviation, the realities  on the ground do not match the conclusions. That is the reason why a  technical group has been set up by the Ministry of Planning, Development  and Reforms to review the official methodology for poverty estimation  and validation of poverty numbers. According to a World Bank report,  World Development Indicators 2013, 60 percent of Pakistan's population  lives below the poverty line. The international poverty line is two  dollars a day or an income of Rs 200 per day. The report showed that 21  percent of Pakistan's population lives below $ 1.25 per day, and a  larger number lives under two dollars a day. A comparison of regional  countries showed that the poverty rate in Sri Lanka and Nepal was  significantly less than Pakistan with 23.9 percent and 57.35 percent,  respectively.

An analysis of the data revealed that 30.9 percent of children under the age of five are suffering from malnutrition and are underweight. The youth literacy rate was recorded at 71 percent for the 15-24 age group. The vulnerable employment, the proportion of unpaid family workers and own account workers in total employment was 63 percent. In recent years, to help the poor, schemes like the Pakistan Poverty Alleviation Fund, Tameer-e-Watan Programme, Benazir Income Support Programme, Pakistan Bait-ul-Maal, subsidies on food, Employees Old Age Benefit Scheme and Workers Welfare Fund have been launched. But, according to independent observers, these initiatives have benefited a small percentage of the country’s population. It is pertinent to note here that fighting poverty is at the core of the UN Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). Although the government has adopted a number of measures to achieve the MDG benchmarks by 2015, it is lagging behind in achieving most targets in various sectors. Regarding the goal on education, there has actually been a regression. The Net Enrolment Ratio (NER) improved from 42 percent in 2001-02 to 57 percent in 2011-12 but it is still far short of the target, while the Completion Rate to grade level five remains stagnant at 57 percent during the period. There is also little possibility of achieving the target of enabling all children to complete a course of primary schooling by 2015. The literacy rate is supposed to have risen from 35 percent in 1990-91 to 58 percent in 2008-9, but this falls far short of the MDG target of 88 percent by 2015. Similarly, the Gender Parity Index for primary and secondary education stands at 0.84 and 0.80 respectively, showing little change from the rates of 0.82 and 0.75 in 2001-02.
At a recent consultative workshop on the national accelerated plan of action for achieving the MDGs, it was claimed by government spokesmen that considerable progress had been made towards achieving MDGs four and five pertaining to maternal and child health. But some basic figures run counter to the claim. According to reports by international agencies, the maternal mortality rate is 276 per 100,000 live births, the under-five mortality rate is 89/1,000 live births and infant mortality is 73/1,000 live births. The most unfortunate figure relates to the neonatal mortality rate, which remained stagnant around 55/1,000 live births during the last three decades. According to government sources, of the 34 indicators on which Pakistan reports progress to the UN and on which data is available, Pakistan is on track only on 10. Unchecked food inflation has nullified the steps taken to eradicate poverty, and the poverty headcount ratio, which was 17.2 in 2007-08 according to the National Poverty Survey, has increased. Food insecurity is an increasing threat to over 60 percent of the people in Pakistan. The reasons cited for lagging behind in fighting poverty by achieving MDG goals include internal and external economic challenges, natural disasters, internal conflicts, and institutional, administrative and political bottlenecks. During the September session of the UN General Assembly this year, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, explaining why Pakistan is not on track to achieving the MDG targets, told the gathering that a large proportion of our resources have been consumed by the war on terrorism. This is a standard excuse that Pakistan offers at every forum, though the world continues to ask why we have not been able to make progress on MDGs comparable to what the poor nations of sub-Saharan Africa have achieved. By all indications, Pakistan’s progress on achieving the MDGs is disappointing. Reports prepared by national and international bodies show that Pakistan will not be able to reach the MDGs by 2015, as it is short of almost all its targets on the time scale. Regarding the eradication of poverty and hunger, the reports say some progress has been made but the 2015 target is unlikely to be achieved.
In their various reports, civil society organisations have stressed that Pakistan will have to launch a new drive for internal resource mobilisation as well as divert resources from other non-productive pursuits and activities to move speedily towards achieving the MDGs. There is still half a year left to the goal and we can even now get our act together to achieve what other less well endowed nations have done. We need to devise a new national development agenda and a more responsive policy framework for this purpose. The first step towards this would be to learn from the experience of various countries in Asia and Latin America, which have successfully lifted the marginalised sections of their populations above the poverty line. Action against poverty needs to be taken at two levels. In the first category should be special food-and-cash schemes as part of a larger social safety net targeting the poorest of the poor in the urban slums and the rural hinterland who have no employable skills and face food insecurity on a daily basis. On a wider canvas, poverty can be fought only through a special package of policy measures designed to accelerate growth both in the agricultural and industrial sectors, launch new employment generation programmes and ensure a more equitable distribution of national income. Poverty is not evil but to remain poor and to accept poverty is really bad. In Pakistan, poverty is increasing day by day. Effective steps of government are required to reduce it. Government should provide credit facilities and use labour intensives techniques of production to reduce the poverty.

**T****he present government at the centre in India  is undertaking all measures to alleviate poverty from the soil of India.Hope we can attain that objective soon ,while conquering the outer space.**
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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

Yes.The official statement till this date is there are no signs of life outside our planet.What I am saying is,even that perspective might change.

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world…

INDIA POVERTY STATS AND FIGURES FOR A GENERAL VIEW…

Poverty levels down by 15% in eight years - The Hindu

Latest NSSO data show a decline from 37% to 22% for all of India, poor states record steepest decrease
Poverty levels across India decreased by 15 percentage points — approximately 2 percentage year over year — between 2004-05 and 2011-12, as per the latest National Sample Survey Organisation (NSSO) figures accessed exclusively by The Hindu. Many economists and government officials say the significant reductions in poverty levels can be correlated to high economic growth rates.
Between 2005 and 2010, the country’s GDP grew at an average of 8.5 per cent and the poverty rate (the proportion of the population below the poverty line) registered an average annual decline of 1.48 per cent. The percentage of the country’s population living below the poverty line declined from 37 per cent in 2004-05 to 22 per cent in 2011-12, according to NSSO data. The 11th Plan (2007-08 to 2011-12) had targeted reducing poverty by two percentage points by 2009-10, compared to 2004-05. Rural poverty has declined faster than urban poverty during this period.
Encouraging as those gains are, the country still counts nearly 26.89 crore poor among its citizens. According to the data, the total number of people below the poverty line in the country is 26.89 crore as against 40.73 crore in 2004-05. In rural areas, the number has reduced from 32.58 crore to 21.72 crore.
The data also indicate that the steepest decline in poverty was in India’s poorer states. “While there has been a national reduction of poverty by two percentage points by 2009-10, compared to 2004-05, different states have performed differently. Bihar, Orissa, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh have witnessed a sharp decline. Bihar shows the biggest decline,” Saumitra Chaudhuri, member Planning Commission told The Hindu.
Bihar has experienced a substantive decline with the percentage of the population living below poverty line (BPL) coming down from 55 per cent in 2004-05 to some 35 per cent in 2011-12. The figures for Gujarat were 31 per cent in 2004-05 and 16 per cent in 2011-12. In Rajasthan, 0.6 crore were lifted out of poverty in the same period. Andhra Pradesh reveals a noteworthy decline in urban poverty from 23 per cent in 2004-05 to 6 per cent in 2011-12.
“Wherever you draw the poverty line or set the poverty level it does not matter as there will still be a decline,” says Mr. Chaudhuri.
Previously, poverty was shown to be declining by 1.5 percentage points between 2004-05 and 2009-10, the Planning Commission had received criticism for pegging the poverty line cut-off at Rs 28.65 per capita daily consumption in cities and Rs 22.42 in rural areas.
The Planning Commission has been estimating the number of people below the poverty line at both the state and national level based on consumer expenditure information collected as part of NSSO surveys since the Sixth Five Year Plan.
(Due to an editing error, the poverty reduction of 15 percentage points (from 37 per cent to 22 per cent) was incorrectly described in the print edition as a decrease of 15 per cent.)

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world…

Despite this rapid growth, india has largest concentration of Poor People in world. Poverty Analysis - India: Achievements and Challenges in Reducing Poverty Poverty in India: Causes, Effects, Injustice & Exclusion . Poverty is everywhere (pakistan india, US china e.t.c) Should nt we focous on Poverty Rather than spending money on useless projects?

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

how about you spend money on poverty instead of expensive animal sacrifices and large-scale pilgrimages in the name of myths? at least the telescope serves the purpose of scientific research and is an investment in the future.

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

^
ghussa is not good.

1-Qurbani animal bought from poor farmers who raised it for years.(business for small farmer)

2-Khall of qurbani went to organization who arrange poor girls wedings.(social work)

3-Meat went to poor people, who during current situation, could not afford it all(made them feel part of society--hence less likey to grow unhappy)

4-It keeps people informed that meat is not made in walmart, hence remove disconnect with food, today's green activist would give an arm and a leg to acheave this goal.

Its not a bad thing!!

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world…

and building a telescope does not provide anyone with business? anywhere money is exchanged, it trickles through the economy.

khal of qurbani have also been going yearly for LeT. again, a big problem that costs everyone big.

but the ultimate difference is, there is no value created by selling sacrificial goats. its done in a day. all that are left behind and burps and farts and a bunch of religious hocus-pocus that does nothing for the future of mankind.

so when someone actually does something solid and concrete for future generations, please show some appreciation, or shut up. :smokin:

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

1- off course research is very important, like I mentioned that make use human.
2-I just told you, It create business opportunity for small farmer, it create WEALTH of social good.
How many poor american can knock on the door of a million year and ask "mate can I have some meat for stake" ?
OR
How long would it take for you train every well todo american, to chase after poor with meat to offer them ??

Dont write of such profound things, just because....
We have to keep honest with thought process.

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

well if you agree research is vital to making us human, i have no beef with you or your animal sacrifices. my problem is with idiots who want to spend their money on blind rituals and then complain that others are wasting money on research when it could be used for poverty.

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

Why not do both? And I think India is doing both. India has a lot of strong civic organizations and NGOs working on many of those issues. ( Case in point the dude that won the nobel prize ) These organizations get their money both from the government and the expatriates ( which you will agree is substantial and relatively well-off ). The government need not get involved in those programs. The government instead focuses on infrastructure and they spend a lot of money on that. You also have to understand the scale. None of the problems you raised will get solved quickly. We are talking about 1/6 of the humanity and a country 3 times the size of Texas. The important thing is they are working on it. How many developing countries can claim that?

As far as the space program is concerned, it is a way for them to make money. Like I pointed out in another thread, the space launch market is close to $350 Billion. They will go after that market. Even if they corner a small percentage of that market, it will bring in quite a bit of money into the country. This while they are honing their skills in missile development. It is a win-win for them.

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

:D

My argument was ritual or qurbani is not blind.

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world...

in addition to this, charity has never worked to eliminate poverty or improve social conditions outside of immediate catastrophic events. case in point - the african continent - every year billions of dollars pour in in the name of charity from decades. nothing to show for it. the one proven way to improve a society is with a strong economy, not with NGOs applying layers and layers of bandaids. it wasnt long ago that south korea was as poor as india and pakistan.

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Re: India to assist in building the largest Telescope in the world…

Bad timing dude!!!

Yesterday An indian economist gave mind blowing ted talk. Showing that when money is send to poor families,
Their kids are born with more weight. I made me emotional.

You are driven by anger so much, that you are writing off charity. Unbelievable.

Here watch.
Dilip Ratha: The hidden force in global economics: sending money home | Talk Video | TED.com

Put ego aside, and see what you and I can learn from it.
Very profound presentation.