Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
my advice to you...
when you are debating with diwana on any issue ................ make you point clear and then let other GS members make a judgement..because diwana will NEVER EVER agree on any thing... plus he will continue posting same point again and again until u r ready to bump your head into the wall!
LOL... I know I know... But i tend to assume that most people have a rational side some where deep in the recesses.
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
Ayub Khan was not a punjabi. You can call Zia one, but I have never heard even him speaking Punjabi. By loss of culture and identity I mean that today's (Pakistani) Punjabi is confused, he disses his own culture and language. The way things are going in a few generations we would lose punjabi language from our side of the border. .
I dont think Punjabi will ever be lost. Punjabi is still the lingua franca of the working class and rural populous. Urdu is basically limited to middle and upper class.
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
I dont think Punjabi will ever be lost. Punjabi is still the lingua franca of the working class and rural populous. Urdu is basically limited to middle and upper class.
Yes but with the passage of time, Urdu is making inroads where as the people (most of them) feel ashamed of speaking Punjabi especially in urban areas. And then the complex of "paindu", where as in other provinces to belong from some province is considered to be a source of pride.
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
Yes but with the passage of time, Urdu is making inroads where as the people (most of them) feel ashamed of speaking Punjabi especially in urban areas. And then the complex of "paindu", where as in other provinces to belong from some province is considered to be a source of pride.
perhaps, but people in my area are often heard mumbling "Zaban suk gai Urdu bhol bhol kur.." Rural punjab isnt going to start speaking Urdu anytime soon.
Maybe in the future, but I think punjabi is pretty resilient.
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
Yes but with the passage of time, Urdu is making inroads where as the people (most of them) feel ashamed of speaking Punjabi especially in urban areas. And then the complex of "paindu", where as in other provinces to belong from some province is considered to be a source of pride.
That is not true .
Now it is a normal thing in our cities and in India also . Hindi or Urdu is used also because of popularity of Film and Tv . Hindi or Urdu is becoming more popular and developed language day by day .
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
I read your post and replied to each one of your points one by one.
We were not comparing Mr Khan to the Sikh mourning his family. We were comparing the mourning of a Sikh who was saddened by the departure of Muslim from his village to the mourning of mr Khan for the departure of the Hindus and the loss of his cities heritage.
If you are going to talk about the relationship of Mountbatten and Jinnah, then you cant pretend it was something it wasnt and still be accurate. Mountbattten and Jinnah did not have a friendly interaction. To pretend it was something else is being deceptive. When talking about the relationship between Mountbatten and Jinnah, then the "Jinnah was cold" quote is the only one that is relevant. Gandhi was shown walking about vilages? And did they say anything of him that was in anyways complimentary? They said he was unable to reach the Muslims... They did not glorify, they simply showed him walking..
I dont think you have a valid argument. And i dont think you have an basis to conclude any bias. We will leave it to others to decide. You simply want to hear an account that conforms to your own bias. Anything then that doesnt conform to your historical perspective is suspect.
I gave you specific example of the Sikh person mourning on loss of family member then why even trying to compare sad feelings of Mr. Khan and the Sikh person on departure of people?
Was any Muslim shown mourning for the loss of his/her family or his or her house ransacked?
In regards to Jinnah and Miuntbatten, I only gave an example of Nehru relation with them and Jinnah not being in this kind of perverted relation.
And then Jinnah is being called 'cold'? And then no positive comments about him?
Anyhow, I gave specific examples already and perfectly capable of going even more in to details based on timeline of the video and video/narration on specific time, but I do know you or PD will not agree.
PD is just disappointed that he said somehow... this is probably the most unbiased video.
The fact is that... it IS a one sided video based on selected people narrating their version of events, script and camera work.
The movie could have been made without showing selective people with a balanced view but unfortunately the video makers themselves are biased.
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
I gave you specific example of the Sikh person mourning on loss of family member then why even trying to compare sad feelings of Mr. Khan and the Sikh person on departure of people?
Was any Muslim shown mourning for the loss of his/her family or his or her house ransacked? In regards to Jinnah and Miuntbatten, I only gave an example of Nehru relation with them and Jinnah not being in this kind of perverted relation.
And then Jinnah is being called 'cold'? And then no positive comments about him?
Anyhow, I gave specific examples already and perfectly capable of going even more in to details based on timeline of the video and video/narration on specific time, but I do know you or PD will not agree.
PD is just disappointed that he said somehow... this is probably the most unbiased video.
The fact is that... it IS a one sided video based on selected people narrating their version of events, script and camera work.
The movie could have been made without showing selective people with a balanced view but unfortunately the video makers themselves are biased.
yaar diwana all i have to say
for once, Impress me..with your intelligence and wit. :-)..................................................................................................................................................................................;)
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
yaar diwana all i have to say
for once, Impress me..with your intelligence and wit. :-)..................................................................................................................................................................................;)
You already ARE. No need for me to work hard for it. ;)
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
I gave you specific example of the Sikh person mourning on loss of family member then why even trying to compare sad feelings of Mr. Khan and the Sikh person on departure of people?
Was any Muslim shown mourning for the loss of his/her family or his or her house ransacked? In regards to Jinnah and Miuntbatten, I only gave an example of Nehru relation with them and Jinnah not being in this kind of perverted relation.
And then Jinnah is being called 'cold'? And then no positive comments about him?
Anyhow, I gave specific examples already and perfectly capable of going even more in to details based on timeline of the video and video/narration on specific time, but I do know you or PD will not agree.
PD is just disappointed that he said somehow... this is probably the most unbiased video.
The fact is that... it IS a one sided video based on selected people narrating their version of events, script and camera work.
The movie could have been made without showing selective people with a balanced view but unfortunately the video makers themselves are biased.
Mera bhai, if they didnt show Muslim crying, that doesn't mean Muslims didn't suffer. When they describe atrocities committed against Muslims, do you really think we need to see a Muslim crying to instill in us empathy for those people and their families? Only a fool would believe having watched this documentary, that no Muslim suffered when it clearly documents Muslim being slaughtered throughout.
Secondly, that they showed a Sikh man weeping, does not have to be interpreted as meaning the makers of the documentary are trying to draw sympathy for Non Muslims at the expense of Muslims. You for whatever reason have interpreted in that way, but I came away from it feeling a kinship with Non Muslims who suffered just like their Muslim counterpart.
Jinnah and Mountbatten did not get along. That is historical fact. and Mountbatten did call Jinnah Cold. So go argue with history... People are supposed to change history to suite u?
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
So, he’s been impressed by your intelligence and wit but doesn’t know it? How very diwana. 
Claiming to know what no one else does. But don’t you think it’s taking it a bit too far, even for you, when you claim to know him more than he does?
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
Mera bhai, if they didnt show Muslim crying, that doesn't mean Muslims didn't suffer. When they describe atrocities committed against Muslims, do you really think we need to see a Muslim crying to instill in us empathy for those people and their families? Only a fool would believe having watched this documentary, that no Muslim suffered when it clearly documents Muslim being slaughtered throughout.
Secondly, that they showed a Sikh man weeping, does not have to be interpreted as meaning the makers of the documentary are trying to draw sympathy for Non Muslims at the expense of Muslims. You for whatever reason have interpreted in that way, but I came away from it feeling a kinship with Non Muslims who suffered just like their Muslim counterpart.
Jinnah and Mountbatten did not get along. That is historical fact. and Mountbatten did call Jinnah Cold. So go argue with history... People are supposed to change history to suite u?
I already said I criticized the movie for the way it was presented.
You are rationalizing by saying yes Muslims also would have suffered but the movie gave no impact by scenes selection or any personal account of any Muslim that Muslims suffered where they were in minority.
Regardless if anyone knows the history, selective scenes create a wrong or highly skewed impact on the person watching.
And that goes with selectively presenting Jinnah as cold as Mountbatten saw him. (Not necessarily a fact, it was Mountbatten's impression of Jinnah)
Anyhow, bringing his daughter, asking/letting her to say her father called Jinnah 'cold'...........that is what I object to, just like other selective people with their personal account of their misery at the hand of Muslims. And then the story of a Muslim Ghunda asking for a girl etc.
You are arguing on about 5% of this video content.
Again, selecting the narrators, to creation of scenes, to script and narration........it is a biased movie.
I have no problem if someone comes and say, movie makers brought some rare scenes from history, but *calling it unbiased is itself a biased statement.
*
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
So, he's been impressed by your intelligence and wit but doesn't know it? How very diwana. :D
Claiming to know what no one else does. But don't you think it's taking it a bit too far, even for you, when you claim to know him more than he does?
:D
Chacha ji, PD knows what I said and why. ;)
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
I don't know why people wouldn't let past be and move on atleast on such matters as colonization, partition, slavery etc. These things just create newer generation which have very little understanding of all facts of the past, but latch on to some select aspects and start their own favorites to hate.
Everybody hates the Brits for what they did to colonies. But if we keep hating current brits for it, what exactly is the end game?
Similarly arguing about what Muslims and Sikhs and Hindus did to each other simply leads to continued animosity as is visbile here. Comeon guys, if you think Brits suppressed Muslims for 200 years and you want to take umbrage to that now, are you accepting that it is ok for Hindus to object to Muslims suppressing them for 600 years? When and where will this recycling of hatred stop? What do you gain by it other than momentary pleasure or agony of putting down each other?
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
I don't know why people wouldn't let past be and move on atleast on such matters as colonization, partition, slavery etc. These things just create newer generation which have very little understanding of all facts of the past, but latch on to some select aspects and start their own favorites to hate.
wah wah kaya logic hai....
ok guys ...brits shd stop reading and discussing history related to Hitler and 2nd world war ...as it spreads hatred about Germans
french in particular shd avoid reading or discussing germane and Italians of 2nd world war as it jeopardizes European union balance
all Germans stop discussing 2nd world war coz they wud otherwise never move forward
americans shd not study their history at all coz they have nothing good anyway
native Americans and African Americans shd stop reading and discussing US history as it spreads hatred towards white Americans....
and freakin Japanesse shd never ever discuss hirsohima as they dont know all the facts that contributed towards atomic explosion ... plus it jeopardizes japans' deep commercial relationship with uncle sam
band kar do saray history departments....aag laga do sariee history books ko...
main sadqay jaoon..kaya amazing solution diya hai meray bhai nay!!! mai to aap ka janam janam ka murid hoon aaj say.....
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
:D
Chacha ji, PD knows what I said and why. ;)
mughay badnam na kaaro Diwana.....:(
PD badnam huwa darling teray layee !!!
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
mujhay
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
Agreed with PD, history is a very important subject which is often neglected by occupying forces and hence repeating the same mistakes over and over again. It's a better approach to discuss things, analyse them and try to repeat them in the future.
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
Oh BTW, just added for a little fun; are you going to dance to that song too?
badnam agar Hogay To Kia naam na Hoga? 
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
The killings that happened in partition were a sad and unnecessary chapter in Pakistan and India's history. The British knew full well what was going to happen, and they didn't care. They took one third world country and made two third world countries. Even Truman was surprised that it happened so quickly.
I think it's sadder still that we're dealing with it, even now.
The good news, from an Indian's perspective anyway, is that the people that were around during partition, the political figures, are dying off. We're all going to be better off for it. Indians and Pakistanis need to see each other as such. We need leader that will look forward instead of looking back, and trying to get even for grievances.
The young leaders in India only know of India and Pakistan as two countries. They are the ones that are pushing through economic relations. Pushing for diplomacy. Many of these leaders went to school in the West with Pakistanis who are now in positions of power. I hope more of these people come to power quickly.
Re: India Pakistan Partition BBC Special Presentation
^ Yes and agree with the essence of your post.
IK also shared similar thoughts in his interview to Indian audience.