India Out Of The Loop On Af-pak, their own papers are admitting they got check mated

India out of the loop on Af-Pak - India - The Times of India

The atmospherics are good but the ground realities are unfavourable. India is struggling to stay relevant and advance its geo-political equities with the United States at a time Washington is buffeted by domestic pressures and international crises that are undercutting its resolve to put ties with New Delhi on a higher plane.

Good intentions, broad agenda, and packed schedules notwithstanding, Indian diplomatic foray into Washington this week was notable for gripes and grievances than any significant advancement towards the stated goal of achieving a strategic relationship with the US, foreign secretary Nirupama Rao had a series of meetings on Tuesday, including a drop-in by secretary of state Hillary Clinton at a state department meeting with her counterpart William Burns, but in the end there was no meeting of minds on the most fundamental security issue of the times.

India and US disagree on Afghanistan and Pakistan. That much became clear towards the end of the foreign secretary’s visit although elaboration on this issue was foiled by the cancellation of Rao’s wrap-up press meet (Indian Embassy said she was unwell).

At a time when Washington is searching for an exit strategy from the Af-Pak region, a statement released at the end of her visit (in lieu of the cancelled press conference) tersely noted that “she (Rao) reiterated India’s long-held position that it was important for the international community to stay the present course in Afghanistan for as long as it is necessary.‘’ The international community on the other hand wants to get the hell out of Afghanistan — yesterday.

There were other unresolved issues. Rao’s engagement was also partly torpedoed by the withdrawal by the government of the nuclear liability bill in Parliament hours after her arrival here. As a result, there was little progress on tying up loose ends of the civilian nuclear deal including an agreement on reprocessing although there were brave words about the deal being on track and on schedule.

Most notably, on the issue of high-tech cooperation, the Indian side was still pleading for removal of some its organizations from the so-called Entities List, seven years after the establishment of the group. “The Indian side requested the US department of commerce to review US export controls applicable to India and update them to bring them in keeping with the changed political realities that contextualize India-US strategic partnership today,‘’ the concluding statement said.

To say India has become a mere sideshow in Washington would be overstating it (besides meeting Clinton, Rao also called on the NSA Jim Jones and two key lawmakers on a day Washington was awash with the health care issue and the US-Israel spat). There were important advances in bilateral matters, including setting the stage for external affairs minister S M Krishna’s visit to Washington shortly leading in turn to President Obama’s visit to New Delhi later this year.

But on the Af-Pak issue, India is clearly out of the loop. Pakistan is again the new game in town. Even as the Indian foreign secretary made the rounds of a capital in political and legislative ferment (over the health care bill), diplomatic corridors were abuzz with Afghan president Hamid Karzai’s own outreach to the Taliban through his brothers and Pakistan’s effort to impose itself on that engagement.

Rao meanwhile was telling think-tankers that Taliban remained untouchables for New Delhi. India’s gripe about US arms to Pakistan also went largely unaddressed. In fact, even as Rao was complaining about the potential use by Pakistan of US-supplied weapons against India, Washington had delivered from its base in Jordan a squadron of 14 AH-1 Cobra advanced helicopter gunships to Pakistan

Re: India Out Of The Loop On Af-pak, their own papers are admitting they got check ma

LMAO! And people thought we were out for the count. Never under estimate the Pakistani people and its resolve. Plus those 14 AH 1 Cobras will do well in stopping support to the TTP is getting from India.

Re: India Out Of The Loop On Af-pak, their own papers are admitting they got check ma

Hopefully Indians will learn a lesson (hard to expect) and stay their bloody nose out of afghanistan. This area has already suffered much and the last thing they need is Indians flaming the northern alliance and other anti-Pak elements.

Having said that, we the Paks must not rest until things are totally going in our direction.

Additionally we must not forget that the change against India happened due to the following aspects:

  1. Immense sacrifices by our Jawans, officers and other law enforcement officers
  2. HUGE sacrifices by the our Pak brothers and sisters especially the pro-Pak leaders and masses in the Frontier province.
  3. And the upsurge in the middle of road policy changes in our government that has thankfully reduced the Islamo-fascism in our top ranks.

Re: India Out Of The Loop On Af-pak, their own papers are admitting they got check ma

Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid claimed his organisation did not want India out of Afghanistan but attacked the country for supporting the Hamid Karzai government and western forces.

"If the Taliban returns to power, we would like to maintain normal relations with countries including India. It's possible for the Taliban and India to reconcile with each other," Mujahid told a news magazine.

He said "India's role is different from those countries that sent troops to occupy Afghanistan."

At the same time, he added that, "India isn't neutral in the Afghan conflict as it is supporting the military presence of US-led coalition forces in Afghanistan and working for the strengthening of the Hamid Karzai government."

Also, he said, "India has never condemned the civilian casualties caused by the occupying forces", a reference to US-led troops in Afghanistan.

Asked about the February 26 attack in which Indians, housed in two hotels in Kabul, were targeted, the spokesman said Taliban was responsible for it.

The February 26 attack targeted Indians engaged in developmental projects like medical and education programmes, killing seven of them.

Claiming that India was supporting the Afghan government and the western forces, Mujahid said the country is, "therefore, a legitimate target for us."

Asked if Taliban wanted India out of Afghanistan, he said, "We are not saying that India should be out of Afghanistan. Nor can India be completely expelled from Afghanistan."

---------Now, what do these talibots want from Indians????

Money!

or more appropriately a daig of halwa.

Well, they have been getting the money from the Saudis, and in past they were funded and armed by US.....I dont think they have any dearth of money.......Countries have poured money in that region worth billions of dollars......but all the money has gone in arms and killing.......not a single cent has been spent on development work.

Afghan warlords always go for the highest bidder.

Is India ready to open up the wallet? That's what the Talibots are saying/asking.

LOL, that is so true....history has proved it....

Re: India Out Of The Loop On Af-pak, their own papers are admitting they got check ma

Link of your source? Also its good to see you believe the word of terrorists.

The Daily Mail - Daily News from Pakistan - Newspaper from Pakistan

What do you mean “believe the word of terrorists”…if a terrorist confesses on commiting terrorism should I not believe him…

Its people like you who differentiate between terrorists, for you Taliban in Pakistan are terrorists and those in Afghanistan are freedom fighters…please dont forget it was Pak Fauj that “betrayed islam” by joining hands with US army in their “war of terror”…and still you are confused why these Talibots are attacking Pak Fauj…I think you have forgotten that Pakistan is the most important American ally in the “war”

Re: India Out Of The Loop On Af-pak, their own papers are admitting they got check ma

Wait so you believe the Taliban when you they want good relations with India? Amazing. I guess you lot are so desperate that you will deal with anybody to stay relevant in Afghanistan.

What makes you think I happy...Taliban should not be recognized by any country....They need to be exterminated....but I think you seem to be pretty upset by the statements of your "freedom fighters"

Re: India Out Of The Loop On Af-pak, their own papers are admitting they got check ma

Upset? Nope. Saddened that someone would believe the words of killers. They all should rot in hell. And their words are not one to be praised or supported like you are doing.

I'm just quoting a news article, its a new development that has surprised me,
bhai saab, why are you angry at me? LOL

I totally support Pak Fauj's military action against Taliban in pakistan, but I do not support any negotiations with taliban in Afghanistan, which unfortunately pakistan wants to do.

Re: India Out Of The Loop On Af-pak, their own papers are admitting they got check ma

Why would Pakistan negotiate with the Afghani Taliban? You do know that Afghanistan and Pakistan are two different countries right?

As if you really mean what you are saying…LOL…Pakistan has negotiated with Taliblots more than 3 times in past.

Pakistan has removed a key Taliban commander, enhanced cooperation with the United States and ensured a place for itself when parties explore a negotiated end to the Afghan war.
**Even before the arrest of the Taliban commander, Mullah Baradar, a senior Pakistani intelligence official expressed irritation that Pakistan had been excluded from what he described as American and Afghan approaches to the Taliban. **
“On the one hand, the Americans don’t want us to negotiate directly with the Taliban, but then we hear that they are doing it themselves without telling us,” the official said in an interview. “**You don’t treat your partners like this.” **
Mullah Baradar had been a important contact for the Afghans for years, Afghan officials said. But Obama administration officials denied that they had made any contact with him.
Whatever the case, with the arrest of Mullah Baradar, Pakistan has effectively isolated a key link to the Taliban leadership, making itself the main channel instead.
“We are after Mullah Baradar,” the Pakistani intelligence official said in an interview three weeks ago. “We strongly believe that the Americans are in touch with him, or people who are close to him.”
The official said the American action of excluding Pakistan from talks with the Afghan Taliban was making things “difficult.”
“You cannot say that we are important allies and then you are negotiating with people whom we are hunting and you don’t include us,” he said.
An American official in Washington who has been briefed on the arrest denied that there had been negotiations with the Taliban commander **or that Pakistani intelligence engineered the arrest to ensure a role in negotiations. **But whether or not that was Pakistan’s intention, it may be the effect.
The Taliban are longtime Pakistani allies in Afghanistan, and Pakistan has signaled its interest in preserving influence there.
Though the Obama administration has been divided on whether and how to deal with the Taliban, the Pakistani move could come at the expense of the Afghan government of Hamid Karzai and complicate reconciliation efforts his government has begun.
An American intelligence official in Europe conceded as much, while also acknowledging Mullah Baradar’s key role in the reconciliation process. “I know that our people had been in touch with people around him and were negotiating with him,” the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the issue.
“So it doesn’t make sense why we bite the hand that is feeding us,” the official added. “And now the Taliban will have no reason to negotiate with us; they will not believe anything we will offer or say.”
The arrest comes at a delicate time, when the Taliban are in a fierce internal debate about whether to negotiate for peace or fight on as the United States prepares to send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan this year.

Taliban Arrest May Be Crucial for Pakistanis - NYTimes.com

Re: India Out Of The Loop On Af-pak, their own papers are admitting they got check ma

people can take pride in whatever they want and as one gets pushed to extreme brink of isolation, every little thing begins to count as a major source of pride. notch this one to that.

if you pull back and see what's really happened - for years Pakistan has resisted taking action against terrorist and militia inside Pakistan. That lead to increasing distrust by almost everyone else and near total isolation

Last year finally, with no choice since these terrorists turned inward and made life living hell, the Pak army mounted serious attacks....very belated and at a great cost of prestige, life and money.

And so now the isolation becomes a bit less - because finally there seems to be a realization dawning....

that leads to thinking may be Gen.Kiyani can deliver what his predecessors couldn't. And therefore some rope.

Kiyani's #1 condition, being a patriotic Pak military man is 'keep India out of my hair'. Which is a very small price to pay if that meant a honorable exit strategy for the US which find itself isolated in Afghanistan, militarily speaking.

It will evaporate real fast at the first unpredicable or unacceptable action from Kiyani.

Yes, thats what Pakistan is trying to do now, creating an image of distancing itself from Taliban…

WASHINGTON: Pakistan on Friday rejected suggestions that it has quietly supported Taliban elements in Afghanistan and pledged to work to bring stability in its northwestern neighbour.

Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, in a theme he has stressed throughout a visit to Washington, said Pakistan was striving to be a “moderate, democratic voice” since its return to civilian rule in 2008.

Friends can also change,” Qureshi told National Public Radio.

There was a time when there was a Taliban government in Afghanistan and Pakistan felt comfortable with that. But today we do not want the Taliban to take over Afghanistan,” he said.

“What the American people need to understand is people in Pakistan, democracy in Pakistan — they are getting their act together,” he said.

He said Pakistan would only seek involvement in Afghanistan in accordance with the country’s wishes.

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | No support for Afghan Taliban: Qureshi

Re: India Out Of The Loop On Af-pak, their own papers are admitting they got check ma

We have negotiated with the TTP yes. Not with the Afghani Taliban because we do not deal with them. What we do is hunt them from the US. That is why the ISI and CIA arrested Mullah Baradar together

Re: India Out Of The Loop On Af-pak, their own papers are admitting they got check ma

DAWN.COM | Front Page | Taliban not in direct conflict with India: spokesman

Yeah we will deal with India. But we will also blow them up if we hear RAW members are holding a meeting there.