India lost Kargil war: confesses Indian general

Re: India lost Kargil war: confesses Indian general

india changing the entire history to re-write, re-shape it according to its' own deseires to exploite not only their own people but the peopel of the world to believe their BS against Pakistan or any other enemy of theirs - why is that a surprise? Havent we seen that through the entire course of history since after the arabs took over india? They tell the lies to the world & their own people about all the three wars with Pakistan, eliminated the entire military record of 1971 war so that the world would never know the truth about the ugly game they played in 1971 with the east & west pakistanis. Forget everything else. See how they did not hand over the indian legend ajmal kasab to Pakistan or even brought him out in the open to even say a line in front of the cameras & 'the trial' is complete & he is supposed to be executed so that the truth can die with him that india is the actual land of terror & nurturing & causing terror in Pakistan & also exporting it to other countries (mainly the US) through use of muslim goats.

Re: India lost Kargil war: confesses Indian general

And I believe that this guy had no choice but to admit the truth after 11 years most probably because the fact that india re-wrote the history might have been 'leaked' to the level that it would not have been possible to continue to hide the truth.

Apparently Indians sneaking into Siachin was a manly way of gaining territory! :hehe:

Not to mention the other territories you gained through invasion.

I mean your the same brave nation that needs THOUSANDS of terrorist cum soldiers to control the civilian population of Kashmir…

And whether you like it or not, the men that liberated that peak from Indian occupation, however brief withstood an assault from your far more numerous and far better supplied Army for quite a while…
Indians in the same positions would have surrendered or run for cover at the first opportunity.

We get the pleasure of laughing at India's incompetence; amply exhibited on the slopes of Kargil... :)

Thats because we lost to circumstance. India claims a victory even though the victory was due entirely to the circumstances of the war.

Still, what war can you rightfuly claim to be victorious in? You have never beaten Pakistan in a fair fight, and the one war you fought with an opponent of equal size left you battered.

Aussindian you just called India darpook!................

So who was it that sneaked in onto the Saichen Glacier while no one was looking?

I can see the truth 'hurts', it should not, since thats they way the Pak Army fights.
Pakistan has always fought the 'darpok' way

  1. 1947-48: Sneaking in soldiers along with 'tribals' to "liberate' Kashmir. The loot, murders & rapes forced the hand of the Raja of J&K into acceding to India. Result = failed

  2. 1965: Sneaked in Commando's in Kashmir to create confusion & revolt there. All were killed or captured. Result = failed.

  3. 1971; Pakistan air force - attacked Indian airfields in a sneak attack (so called "preemptive move"). India retaliated massively and soon Pakistan lost the war (and East Pakistan). Result = failed.

4.1980: Pak Army - tried to provoke the Sikhs to revolt, armed and trained them. Failed.

  1. 1989 - onwards: the 'darpok' pak army started using Jihadi's to fight a proxy war. Result = failed.

  2. 1999: Kargil - The darpok army was so scared that they did not want to admit it was them, and kept saying it's just a few hundred Mujahids. Anyway, they were all kicked out by the IA. Result = Failed. (Saichen too = failure)

I can see the truth 'hurts', it should not, since thats they way the Pak Army fights.
Pakistan has always fought the 'darpok' way

  1. 1947-48: Sneaking in soldiers along with 'tribals' to "liberate' Kashmir. The loot, murders & rapes forced the hand of the Raja of J&K into acceding to India. Result = failed

  2. 1965: Sneaked in Commando's in Kashmir to create confusion & revolt there. All were killed or captured. Result = failed.

  3. 1971; Pakistan air force - attacked Indian airfields in a sneak attack (so called "preemptive move"). India retaliated massively and soon Pakistan lost the war (and East Pakistan). Result = failed.

4.1980: Pak Army - tried to provoke the Sikhs to revolt, armed and trained them. Failed.

  1. 1989 - onwards: the 'darpok' pak army started using Jihadi's to fight a proxy war and is still trying. Result = failed.

  2. 1999: Kargil - the usual 'Darpok' attack. Tried recapturing = Failed.

Generals, being generals, make for bad politicians. Sure, you have some exceptions, but the general rule typically remains true. They have very myopic world views, which is a good thing for a soldier. They're trained to act, and not think. Civilian leaders say jump, and their only response should be how high.

The fact of the matter is, Kargil was a total collapse of intelligence and military readiness. The Indian Army, and it's leadership was totally caught off guard. They were ill prepared, and the counter offensive took too long to launch. But, that's really where the failure ends.

Where the Indian military came up spades, the Indian leadership came up with a royal flush. If it had to happen, it couldn't have happened at a better time. It was on the heels of a historic initiation of peace by Nawaz and Vajpayee. The world's attention was on the possibility of peace, and saw Kargil as a knife in the back.

The Indian military regained ground. Indian diplomacy had a coup. Pakistan and the Kashmir jihad were no longer seen as resistance. It was seen as terrorism. It was seen as treachery. Within one summer, public opinion was aligned behind India. That hasn't changed. Musharraf's dictatorship only added to solidify the notion.

Kishen Pal is a civilian now. He can say anything he wants.

Pakistan Never fights the darpoke way, Its India which never keeps its word and lies constantly and feeds its public with the same $hit.Just like the lies that you have potrayed here thanx to the media that has fed you, doesnt come as a surprise, as Indians are delusional.

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  1. 1947-48: Sneaking in soldiers along with 'tribals' to "liberate' Kashmir. The loot, murders & rapes forced the hand of the Raja of J&K into acceding to India. Result = failed

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Pakistan Army didnt sneak in, contrary to ur assumption. Tribals openly declared war on Indian Forces and Governor General of Pakistan, openly ordered General Gracey to take Kashmir.
Agaian a lie on ur part, it wasnt loot,murders,rape that forces the Raja to accede to India but Money.
The raid wasnt failed because one third of Kashmir was taken by Pakistan.The tribals and Pakistan Army performed really well without air support, using out dated weaponary and against heavy odds
Result: A part of Kashmir becomes Pakistan.

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  1. 1965: Sneaked in Commando's in Kashmir to create confusion & revolt there. All were killed or captured. Result = failed.

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After India Sneaked into Rann of Kutch, failed miserably against a smaller force and finally "RAN" with its tail between its legs from there, Pakistan planned to use commandos for Kashmir solution. The result was not failure, but India attacking Pakistan on two fronts out of frustration and losing miserably in securing either of the objectives,infact being driven out and running to Russia for a ceasefire.
Once again, a smaller force had a delusional Indian armed forces run away with its tail between its legs back to its hole.Considering that pakistan was atonce under embargo from US and relied 90% on US weaponary and still managed to force the enemy for a ceasefire is a considerable success.
Result: Once again, Mighty India couldnot wipe off Pakistan from the map of the world.

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  1. 1971; Pakistan air force - attacked Indian airfields in a sneak attack (so called "preemptive move"). India retaliated massively and soon Pakistan lost the war (and East Pakistan). Result = failed.

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The very first instance of CROSS-BORDER terrorism by India :The creation of Mukti Bahini(2nd one is creation of LTTE against SriLanka , also by India).
PAF used pre-emptive strikes in 1965 war on 7th sept. In 1971, war a lone squadron of PAF in East-Pakistan lashes out against 3 airfields of IAF and does damage.This shows the heroics of a Nation, never willing to give in to a Bigger Enemy.The air war also a generation behind PAF F-86 Sabre shooting down a newer generation mig-21 of IAF, again speaks volumes of better training of PAF pilots.
Result: East Pakistan was lost and India started new border skirmishes with Bangladesh, obviously its tough for India to live peacefully with its neighbours and started to support Myanmmar against bangladesh.

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4.1980: Pak Army - tried to provoke the Sikhs to revolt, armed and trained them. Failed.

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Pakistan Army now in a two front war, using own manpower and mujahideen with military aid from USA,KSA etc, take on a super power, USSR.
In the meantime, Indian army SNEAKS in on Siachen peaks and starts a new new battleground to fight on. Till today, neither India nor Pakistan have gained any foothold and this stupid move has costed India more than pakistan.
The Golden Temple story starts and sikh guards successfully kill Indian PM.

Result: India fails to bring Pakistan down on its knees by opening newer fronts.

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  1. 1989 - onwards: the 'darpok' pak army started using Jihadi's to fight a proxy war. Result = failed.

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Frustrated that Pakistan is winning a war against a super power, Indian army starts an excercise "Brasstracks". This excercise involves 6-7 strike divisions and is bigger than any NATO excercise. India brings its forces with Pakistan's Borders. Pakistan strategically moves 6th armoured division from Northern reserve to a central position. Finding the 6th division, Indian generals crumble and the excercise heads nowhere and is cancelled soon,causing India millions of cash loss.
Pakistan starts own excercise "Zarb-e-Momin" and completes successfully.
At the end of 1989, Pakistan has beaten a super power(USSR) also, while India can just stare sitting accross the border.

Result: Pakistan beats super power USSR, causes chaos in Indian Excercise and completes own excercise successfully.

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  1. 1999: Kargil - The darpok army was so scared that they did not want to admit it was them, and kept saying it's just a few hundred Mujahids. Anyway, they were all kicked out by the IA. Result = Failed. (Saichen too = failure)

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Pakistan wants to deny India the main supply route by road towards Siachen to bring india into talks about Siachen. The mujahideen take over the positions and Indian patrols are decimated. once Indian forces start to grind in the OPs area, Pakistan brings regulars to stop India from crossing LOC if they run over mujahideen. Bad politics on part of Pakistani PM result in withdrawal of Pakistani Forces, and this withdrawal had nothing to do with India or its its Army.

Result: India now forced to spend millions again in maintaining troops in winter time in all posts of LOC which they used to vacate earlier, causing more suicides and killing of officers. Pakistan realizing that Air component to be an important factor in all later wars.

6.2001/2 Stand-off:
India once again deploying troops on border with pakistan,losing many officers and jawans without firing a single bullet and retreating into barracks.

Sarge: Unfortunately for all Pakistani's, the Pak Army has created this bogey, that India wants to gobble up Pakistan.

Lets see:
1. Pakistan lost Bangladesh, India could have now diverted it's entire forces against West Pakistan even grabbed the Pak occupied Kashmir- but no, India, backed off and extended it's hand of friendship.

  1. The POWs were well treated under Geneva convention, no one was tried for 'rape or murder' despite Bangladesh demanding it.

  2. Despite winning the war, India did not put any harsh terms on Pakistan, and released all prisoners.

  3. 1974 - India explodes it's nuclear bomb. It took Pakistan several years to do so.

    Despite this, India never threatened or attacked Pakistan all those years.

if you want peace & want to prosper - Trim the Pak Army's powers, they are the Pak people's army, not rulers of the Pak people.

hmm are you forgetting 2001 standoff where India lined up their troops on the border but backed off later when they saw the Pakistani army's power.

Pakistan didn't attack like cowards at night like India in 1965, Lahore. You guys have tried to wipe off this tiny country called Pakistan off the map since 1947 but have failed.

2001 stand off: After the Terrorist attack on Indian Parliament, India started the stand off and diplomatically geared the world opinion against Pakistan..

USA & EU banned the terrorist organisations in Pakistan and froze its assets internationally.
Pakistan too was forced to ban these organsations, and indirectly admit that it was a 'terrorist sponsoring country'.

Indian objectives were achieved.
(Akal bari ya bhans)

Yeah sure, on paper India always does - so whats new.....

Thank you for your post, SargeCandy.

I would like to add the real stories of 1965 I have heard from people who saw it. They told of how the "great, mighty, brave indian army" sneaked into Pak borders in the dark after midnight in their tanks when Pak army had no clue of their hideous plan to take over Pakistan once again when Pak state was declared an 'independent' state in 1947. So, the people living on the borders stop this great 'friendly' neighbour from occupying it by fighting alongside the army. Many civilians like just you and me volunteered & tie bombs around himself & lie in front of the tanks of these ugly pieces of sh!ts entering into our soil & stop them taking over.

That is why they are so scared to take on Pakistani nation face to face in a war. That's why they have to manipulate almost everyone they can find on earth to build a stronger army against Pakistan.

Because india still has not accepted Pakistan as an independent state no matter what they tell us from their tongues.

  1. They manipulate the russians with the theory of "my enemy's enemy is a friend'. They encouraging old day soviets to unite with them against Pakistan & america because Pakistan fought against russia along with america.

  2. They manipulate the iranians against Pakistan by saying that being a majority shiia state & an american rival, they need to unite with them against Pakistan & america.

  3. They manipulate arabs (mainlly dubaiins) by saying that Pakistanis make money on their lands & flee to other countries which leaves them deprived of their own 'money'. They fully understand how stupid, usually, the arabs are & how easy it is to manipulate them. Actually, it is easy for indians to manipulate almost anyone & everyone, regardless of who / what they are. But look at the stupidity of dubaiins. I mean it is GOD who provides rizq to his creation from anywhere HE wants. So, if Pakistanis earn for themselves from a dubbaiin land, it is entirely God's will. But indians sucessfully make them arabs feel so insecure, bitter & angry about pakistanis earning their livelihood from dubbaiii..... How sickly can one be???? But indians successfully are able to shift their own internal sickness into any matter they desire.

  4. To israel, it is no big deal at all. Everyone knows pakistan's support for kashmir & the palestinians. so, this ally of india (how they condemn israel & their actions from the outside or how much they deny of being the real 'love birds' holds no worth) naturally is much more important than any other.

  5. To america, they again have quite hideous bollysh!t!sh stories of "All the Pakistanis are out to kill you just like they are out to kill us". The most disturbing part I find about this manipulation of theirs is that they have also successfully created that 'hate' environment in Pakistani public against america. america's ruthless, stupid acts & decisions of going on war with so many muslim countries has helped indian agenda alot. At the same time, stupid Pakistanis attempts of waging 'fake' jihad against common citizens of america has also helped their agenda. That is why a great deal of sensibility on both sides is required to help stop this terror started by indian manipulation of their humans of the world.

  6. Does anyone recall their recent attempts at manipulating the saudi government to share their objective? the only difference was that this time, they did it publicly instead of secretly or maybe the saudi government made it public.....

  7. And manipulation of europe is entirely a completely different bollysh!t story altogether. No body is saved from this mental exploitation of the real lucifier. Europe is a huge place. They need to also wake up & know the truth.

May God keep the world safe from the terror of this country which has so easily with the help of a strong criminal mafia made the world to believe it is a 'true democracy', a peaceful land & an indiscriminatory poise soil offerring equality for all. But the truth is different which very few people know. Not even their own people. Majority of their own people do not want to know either because they are working on the same agenda.

The people of the world need to wake up. ESPECIALLY the stupid Pakistani people because they, being a naighbour to them, are more gullible to being exploited and because they have already sufferred so much they it is really NEED of the time that they wake up & stop being used by this 'friendly neighbour which is full of love' for us Pakistanis.

Pakistan is in desperate need to ponder over why nawaz's government was required to be turned down by india with the help of criminal mafia? There must be something about it? Because Pakistan was slowly progressing to become a stable democracy? They could not tolerate to see the 'freedom of democracy' for Pakistani people. They do not want any muslim nation to be 'free & indepedent' specifically pakistanis people. Because freedom of thought brings maturity. Maturity leads to stability, good economy, better life & finally authority & power. Which is not desired specifically for pakistani people. so................. they have to do everything they can, in anyway they can to distrupt stability of a democracy. They turned down nawaz's.................. and for the last 10 years, we have not seen for one single day what we lost in 1999. No the present government is NOT a democracy. They just do not want any kind of stability in pakistan.

Now they are struggling hard to create an environment against the PML-N 1. because that was the government they feared might bring stability & strength to Pakistan & hence turned it down, 2. this is the only 'better' choice we presently have. They might have made mistakes in the past but I think they have g=matured & learned from the past. So india does not want this government to be re-elected ever for the reasons I have stated above.

IK, they have already have got him stuck wih the 'wrong' community (talibans) who want to again make pakistan another saudia. So, my post above must also give a clue what pakistan needs. We desperately need nawaz's democracy back, the kind we had before 1999. The fact that it was brought down by force is the proof & the reason why we need it qithout any more doubts or questions.

Hope the above makes sense. I know it's quite confusing.

Re: India lost Kargil war: confesses Indian general

lol this thread is epic.Too embarassing for indians.I am sure western historians will refresh their accounts too after this.
We have 4 wins under our belt now

What amazes me is that there are thousands of neutral sources on the web-sites confirming what I have stated, yet Pakistanis' stick to the rubbish they have been fed since childhood.

Do you not realise, that Pakistan is now Internationally known as the breading ground for Jihadi's.
Do you not know that the holders of Pakistani passport are 'suspects' & double checked at airports throughout the world.
Do you not know that the world does not trust you, and even USA army does not disclose their attack plans, when attacking terrorists.
Do you not know that due to your country is suffering from internal Jihadi attacks.
Do you not know your country cannot survive without finacial help - world bank, Saudi, etc.
Do you not realise that most countries do not like giving you latest weapons - since they fear you will be emboldened to start another Kargil.

It's almost not worth discussing anything with you guys, since I feel truth & facts mean nothing to you - you rather believe the conspiracy theories and the lies you have been fed since childhood.

All thanks to indians teaming up against Pakistan with the world's most powerful criminal mafia & indians excellent skills of manipulation/ mental exploitation & brainwashing.

The real stories of people who have seen & told 1947 partition, 1965, 1971 wars are rubbish for indians? And the fabricated history written by india to fulfil its' own agenda of brainwashing not only the world but their own people is so noble & truthful, should be believed in blindly because it is coming from oh soooo truthful india. Yeah right!!! In another thread I see you purposely ignoring the massacre of thousands of muslims of Pakistan in bomb blast attacks. Why am I not surprised another indian working on the same lucifier's agenda of spreading lies, evil propaganda & misinformation?

Pakistan zindabad!!
Ambassador1 and SargeCandy for president !
Ambassador1 bro, u showed them with ur flawless logic!

i can understand the 'flawless' of your own kind....but where is the logic...