The ringleaders of massacres committed in 2002 are still roaming free in Gujarat. Sixteen months after the beginning of the violence, not a single person has been convicted.
Human right? What human rights in the alleged secular India?
Yes, this is the result in a secular India, and be aware if it is declared a theocratic state!
A Hindu Taleban State will be very terrible.
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*Originally posted by fantoosh: *
..A Hindu Taleban State will be very terrible...
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Try telling that to the families of the thousands of Muslims burnt to death recently in Gujarat, and over a hundred thousand Muslims that still languish in refugee camps there. While you are at it, ask the Muslim women of Guarat if having their womb violated and their unborn babies reipped apart would cause a differet feeling if it happened under a Hindu state that was Theocratic?
Fantoosh, you better get some sleep. You need to be up early for school tomorrow. Shabash.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by 2bornot2b: *
Try telling that to the families of the thousands of Muslims burnt to death recently in Gujarat, and over a hundred thousand Muslims that still languish in refugee camps there. While you are at it, ask the Muslim women of Guarat if having their womb violated and their unborn babies reipped apart would cause a differet feeling if it happened under a Hindu state that was Theocratic?
Fantoosh, you better get some sleep. You need to be up early for school tomorrow. Shabash.
[/QUOTE]
agreed...the families are more than mad
Secular India?
These two words together are a joke. More religious and racial (caste system) killings and injustices happen in India than any place on earth. India today is run by fanatic hindu fundo's and their goal is to wipe out Islam, Christianity, Sikhs and others from India. Forget what their leaders say on CNN and the western press. Read what they say in their rallies and in their deeds (Gujrat for example).
India is a time bomb waiting to explode.
Meanwhile, good old USA is becoming more friendly with the fanatical rulers of India. Why is it that the USA only befriends killers and hate regimes and ignores the cries of the common folk of such countries?
Justice in Gujarat
Rehman “I saw the burning, chopping, chopping people with swords, dousing people in petrol and setting them alight. It was unimaginable. Now I see them hanging around. All three of them, looking nonchalant, without a care in the world” . :disgust:
Justice in Gujarat](http://www.channel4.com/news/2003/10/week_2/06_guj.html) Channel 4 News 06 Oct 2003
[thumb=D]indiaguj.JPG[/thumb]
Eighteen months after communal violence in the Indian state of Gujarat left up to 2,000 people - mostly Muslims - dead, the state government seems unable to provide justice for the victims. The violence followed an attack on a train carrying Hindu pilgrims, which killed 57. But while the Hindu Nationalist government has detained more than 200 Muslims under draconian anti-terror laws, nobody has yet been convicted for the pogrom that followed. Most accused have been let out on bail.
Many of the more than 900 riot cases registered with the police have been dismissed or have collapsed amid widespread accusations of witness intimidation. And as our Asia Correspondent Ian Williams reports from Gujarat, India’s supreme court is being urged to take the case away from the state.
Gujarat is throwing a party, an attempt to re-vamp its sullied image. Announcer: “Gujarat, that land of Lord Krishna is a land of peace, prosperity and progress.” As many as 2,000 Muslims were killed in a pogrom last year, but not a single murderer has yet been brought to justice. A detail that didn’t seem to trouble Chief Minister Narendra Modi, or his guest of honour, India’s deputy prime minister, and fellow Hindu hardliner. Lal Krishna Advani, Deputy Prime Minister of India: “I would be the first to admit that a sad and unfortunate episode took place. But it was an aberration. Gujarat will learn the right lessons from it and move on. Indeed it has already moved ahead.”
Dr Mokul Sinha, High Court Advocate: “The manner in which they are going about at present, I don’t believe they are going to get any justice. It continues like this I don’t believe it.” Last year Medina witnessed the rape and murder of her 17-year-old daughter. Seven other family members were also murdered. All those she identified as taking part in the violence have been released on bail. Medina has faced threats and intimidation - even when she appeared in court, which was packed with Hindu hardliners.
**Medina: “I told the court what happened to my daughter and to my mother-in-law and father-in-law, how they were beaten by the mob. But the people in the court, they laughed at me, and they kept on laughing while I testified. The case is still going on. They offered us money to retract our statements. They said they would pay us off. Even my husband was persuaded to withdraw his statement, but I don’t want to do that. I want justice.” **
Some 65 people were killed in the Kalol region. A prominent leader of the BJP, the Hindu nationalist party that governs Gujarat, is alleged to have led the mob. Medina lives with 28 other families, in converted farm buildings, too frightened to return to their villages. Some have been told they can go back - if they drop their charges. Medina’s husband did return, briefly, but was confronted by the same people - freed on bail - who’d attacked them last year.
Medina: “My husband Mustafa visited our house to check on the fields. Those people, they asked him:‘how dare Medina testify against us? Do you want to become a widower?’ They said:'Let’s see her try and come and live among us.” Rehman was a witness to one of the worst acts of violence - almost one hundred killed at Naroda Patia, including his son. Again, almost all those accused have been released on bail, including the three he named. Rehman “I saw then burning, chopping, chopping people with swords, dousing people in petrol and setting them alight. It was unimaginable. Now I see them hanging around. All three of them, looking nonchalant, without a care in the world.”
A familiar clamour has returned to the streets of Ahmedadbad, Gujarat’s capital. Eighteen months ago, we drove down that same street when it was strewn with debris from the violence. The authorities were accused of complicity: police stood by - even joined in, and members of the BJP and its sister organisation, the VHP - or World Hindu Council - were accused of orchestrating and taking part in the violence. It seemed to be well planned, but was described at that time by Chief Minister Modi as “the natural and justified anger of the people.”
It followed an arson attack on a train in which 57 Hindu pilgrims were killed. In this case decisive legal action has been taken: 240 people have been detained indefinitely under India’s anti-terrorism laws. All but one are Muslim. These laws have not been used against alleged Hindu perpetrators of the pogrom that followed. **The only major case to go to full trial - that of a torched bakery where 14 people died - collapsed when all the witnesses withdrew their testimony. All the defendants were released. That resulted in stinging criticism from India’s supreme court, which is being petitioned to take all the cases away from Gujarat. **
Among them, that of Gulberg Society, a Muslim enclave in a Hindu area, where local member of parliament Ehsan Jaffri was among 39 killed, the police ignoring his calls for help. Mrs Jafri witnessed her husband’s murder. She has testified, though so far only at a special commission set up by the Gujarat government, where the police again stood by as she was abused by a mob of Hindu hardliners.
Zakia Naseem Jafri, widow of murdered member of parliament: “They started shoving me. I would have been trampled on if some people hadn’t helped me into the car. We tried to drive off, but they surrounded us, shouting slogans and kicking and punching the car. But we managed to get out of there while the crowd continued to shout slogans.”
The lawyer who represented the Gulberg accused, and who won them bail, is Chetan Shah. Over the years he has regularly represented Hindu hardliners from the BJP and VHP. But now he has a new job: The Gujarat Government has appointed Mr Shah Chief Public Prosecutor at Ahmedabad Sessions Court. In other words, he is supposed to lead the prosecution against the same people he recently defended. Channel 4 News: “Many of those accused are members of the VHP. You have been associated with the VHP. Now you are the prosecutor. How can that be fair?” Chetan Shah, Chief public prosecutor, Ahmedabad sessions: “There is no evidence that I am associated with the VHP. I was never associated with the VHP and I was never a member of the VHP.”
In fact Mr Shah’s regular court appearances for Hindu hardliners are a matter of public record. Colleagues say he shares their hardline views. And according to court documents, Mr Shah, defendant 31, was himself accused in 1987 of being part of a mob that attacked Muslim homes, killing nine people. Though he was subsequently acquitted. Lawyers for Muslim victims of last year’s violence are trying to have Mr Shah removed. But they have their own problems: an armed guard protects Tirmizi Mohammad after he recently received death threats. Tirmizi Mohammad, lawyer for Gulberg victims: “They have made threats telephonically, and here in person. They don’t want us to represent the riot victims. When event the lawyers face threats how do you think the victims feel about their own security?”
Mr Modi’s makeover party, chosen to coincide with the annual Havratri Hindu Festival, also included the bombastically titled Global Investors Summit. Since the Chief Minister hadn’t responded to our formal request for an interview, we attended his summit in order to try and question him there. He declined to comment. Clearly, it’s not one of favorite topics of conversation. More forthcoming was one of the British visitors to the summit, who helped organise Mr Modi’s recent visit to Britain.
Manoj Ladwa: “The government is very clear and very keen to dispense justice in a fair and firm way. There are issues as regards riot victims from both communities. It’s not just one community.” Away from Mr Modi’s stage-managed festivities, Havratri is a genuine street festival, enjoyed by millions. Though the Muslim community is largely excluded, marginalised and increasingly frustrated at the lack of justice here.
Yet from her perch along the muddy, garbage-strewn alley where chickens and cows jostle for space with pedestrians, Begum saw it all: the slaughter that spared the animals but claimed so many humans.
India’s `lab’ for divisive politics](Breaking News - Headlines & Top Stories | The Star) The Toronto Star
Gujarat state is the testing ground for fundamentalists’ `Hindutva’ strategy of demonizing Muslims to solidify power
AHMEDABAD, **India-Clad in a traditional sari, Abeda Begum could be any Hindu woman hunched over her work, rolling incense sticks for 30 cents a day. But to her Hindu neighbours across the street, she is a marked woman: a Muslim, living in a marked home, on the wrong side of the divide. The address stencilled on her doorframe - IRC 212 - announces a shelter donated by the local Islamic Relief Committee. It also signifies something more stark.
This was ground zero for the Hindu fundamentalist pogrom that left nearly 2,000 Muslim dead in the coastal state of Gujarat last year. In an explosion of mob violence that stunned the world, Begum lost her home - and some loved ones. Now, many Indians fear the country’s secular foundations are also being shaken.**
In the aftermath of the riots, Gujarat’s Hindu fundamentalist government handily won re-election on a platform of “Hindutva” - an ideology that stresses the Hindu-ness of India and the pre-eminence of its religious majority. Nationalist politicians whipped up communal passions on the campaign trail by demonizing the Muslim minority and effectively sanctifying the pogrom. Today, not a single perpetrator has been successfully prosecuted by the state government. That miscarriage of justice prompted a stinging rebuke of Gujarat by the federal supreme court, which last month ordered a retrial because of alleged witness-tampering. …
India today is run by right wing racist Government!
There can be no doubt about it the facts are clear for everyone to see.
Gujerat massacre is just another statistic as far as the Extremist Indians and the BJP is concerned!
I think Vajpayee is just making statements for domestic consumption here. I very much doubt whether justice will ever be served in Gujarat, as long as the RSS/BJP continue to rule the State as well as central Government.
Perpetrators of Gujarat Hindu-Muslim riots will be punished: Indian PM](http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/56059/1/.html) Channel News Asia 07 Nov 03
NEW DELHI, : Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee pledged to punish the perpetrators of anti-Muslim riots that killed some 2,000 people last year in the western state of Gujarat, which is ruled by his Hindu nationalist party. “There is no doubt that those perpetrating such violence should be punished,” Vajpayee told the Financial Times of London in an interview published Friday.
“Our public, media and judiciary are following it closely. Justice will not only seen to be done; it will be done,” Vajpayee said. “The violence in Gujarat was a tragic aberration and we have condemned it unequivocally. It is important to remember that these tragic incidents remain localised – the secular fabric of India remains intact.” Some 2,000 people, most of them Muslims, were killed in February and March 2002 in Gujarat. The riots came after a mob, allegedly made of Muslims, torched a train carrying Hindu activists in the Gujarat town of Godhra, killing 59 people.
Human rights groups have accused the state administration, headed by Vajpayee’s Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), of turning a blind eye to the vigilante violence and at times abetting the perpetrators. Vajpayee himself came under strong attack for not sacking Gujarat’s leader, Chief Minister Narendra Modi, who has since become a prominent campaigner for the BJP.
The state leader has been repeatedly defended by senior BJP leaders including Vajpayee’s deputy Lal Krishna Advani and Hindu hardliners. In September, India’s Supreme Court said Modi’s administration had denied justice to victims of the communal riots. No one has been convicted over the violence.
Human rights groups have accused the state administration, headed by Vajpayee's Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), of turning a blind eye to the vigilante violence and at times abetting the perpetrators. Vajpayee himself came under strong attack for not sacking Gujarat's leader, Chief Minister Narendra Modi, who has since become a prominent campaigner for the BJP.
That is exactly the point. Until Vajpayee backs his words up with action nobody will believe what he says.
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That is exactly the point. Until Vajpayee backs his words up with action nobody will believe what he says.
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Gotta agree with that...
Policeman Modi ‘fuelled’ the riots
TIMES NEWS NETWORK TUESDAY, DECEMBER 16, 2003 10:46:15 PM ]
AHMEDABAD: Riot victims of Gomtipur area told the Justice G T Nanavati
and Justice K G Shah commission of inquiry on Tuesday that personnel
of the Rapid Action Force (RAF) not only targeted Muslim women but
also supplied petrol from their official vehicles to the mob to set
ablaze houses belonging to minorities.
Mumtaz Ansari, a resident of Salatnagar Ambika Mills told the
commission that police inspector Modi instigated mobs from Maninagar
to attack the Muslims of her area. "The inspector directed that petrol
be taken out from his vehicle and it was used by the mob to set our
society on fire.
The police even beat us with riffle butts when we protested against
the arrest of some innocent men," said Ansari. A victim, Sabina
Sheikh, told the commission that the RAF team which arrived on April 4
afternoon in Gomtipur beat up women and children of the Mehboob Chali
area.
“Even after we shifted to a relief camp in Gomtipur, Jitendra Vaghela,
who is now MLA from Shaherkotda, led a mob on April 23, with a RAF
team following. While mob pelted stones, threw acid bulbs and crude
bombs, RAF men entered houses to look for the menfolk and assaulted
women,” said Sabina Sheikh. “Though I had a fractured leg after the
police beat me up earlier, they made obscene gestures and sexually
assaulted me and banged my head onto the wall,” she added.
“The police did not even spare our pets and shot a dog. The RAF
personnel tore off my clothes and snatched my chain on April 21,” said
Sahjahan Bano of Dhobi chali. She said that the police knocked on her
doors on April 22 morning while her daughter studied for her board
examination.
“Why are you making her study … send her out and we will teach her
the trade, they told me,” she said as she broke down sobbing. “The
police even stopped autorickshaws which were rushing those injured in
police firing to hospitals,” said Mohammad Qureshi, who son was also
hit by a stray bullet on April 21. “As we were taking the victims
including an old man, his daughter and my son to the VS Hospital, we
were stopped by the police on the Gomtipur flyover. The old man,
Mehmood Hussain, and her daughter died due to the delay,” said
Qureshi.
I would like to ask the indian guppshup members why they always make excuses for these masscres instead of saying there is a problem which needs solving they are like acting as if there is no problem or as if it is some minor problem which no one should worry or intefere with!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
I would like to ask the indian guppshup members why they always make excuses for these masscres instead of saying there is a problem which needs solving they are like acting as if there is no problem or as if it is some minor problem which no one should worry or intefere with!
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How come no Pak guppies condemned the Godhara train burning, why they always make excuses for these masscres instead of saying there is a problem which needs solving they are like acting as if there is no problem or as if it is some minor problem which no one should worry or intefere with!
The point is that most Indian guppies have agreed that the Gujarat incidents were horrible and the guilty indeed needs to be punished. Why you can even look at my previous posts in other topics also.
But the problem is that more often than not, every discussion about India on this forum goes into Gujarat and therefore leads to a dead end. India is more than a one issue country and I woudl be glad if you could realise that.
As far as what can be done, I agree the results have been pathetic what with Hitler Modi in control and all that bt there is a silver lining in that the Supreme Court has definitely taken a very aggressive stand and as the highest legal authority in the country is doing is its best within its powers to ensure jusice.
Now please dont outrightly rubbish this statement, why dont you check up on some Indian news sites and you will see that this has uindeed been the case.
What more can be done? Do you actually believe taht the politicians do the will of the people always?
Along similar lines, I have never seen you condemn any murder of Kashmiri Pandits in Kashmir by terrorists.
Whenever such issues are raised the convenient response is that those are Indian soldiers in disguise...So you should understand if any Indian guppy does find it difficult to say there is a problem.
As far as outright condemnation goes enough people have cindemned he massacres.
Toddytapper
this my point if there is problem making excuses again. you bring up kashmir that just adds fuel to my argument because Kashmir is another problem we can go onto bihar or punjab or any other state.
And you will see problem is there and its not being solved. When you say i have'nt condemn pundits being killed i would condemn that whoever did that.
Pakistan is not angelic state, it has many problems but this topic is related to india. These masscres in India more recently since the BJP rise to power have been continuous against minorities i think it must be in built it cannot have just happened over night when BJP got into power they have tapped into something that was already there!
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*Originally posted by ak47: *
Toddytapper
this my point if there is problem making excuses again. you bring up kashmir that just adds fuel to my argument because Kashmir is another problem we can go onto bihar or punjab or any other state.
And you will see problem is there and its not being solved. When you say i have'nt condemn pundits being killed i would condemn that whoever did that.
Pakistan is not angelic state, it has many problems but this topic is related to india. These masscres in India more recently since the BJP rise to power have been continuous against minorities i think it must be in built it cannot have just happened over night when BJP got into power they have tapped into something that was already there!
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So do you have a solution, a way out?