India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

[Ali_Syed]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

I still maintain that there is no cultural affinity between a Sindhi and a Kashmiri and a Baloch and a Kashmiri and between Mojairs and Kashmiris. So unless by your logic all Pakistanis are Punjabi's, not all Pakistanis have a cultural affinity with the Kashmiris, they merely are co-religionists.

The same thing holds good with Kashmiris and the rest of India, and in that case they dont even share the religion. At least in case of Pakistan, Kashmir shares borders with both Punjab and KP & even in India, Jammu has borders with Indian Punjab.

[mufaddal]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

The same thing holds good with Kashmiris and the rest of India, and in that case they dont even share the religion. At least in case of Pakistan, Kashmir shares borders with both Punjab and KP & even in India, Jammu has borders with Indian Punjab.

Thats exactly why I am saying it is inherently wrong to hold entire nations hostage to the likes of a few, and that the best way out is to accept the status quo and move on.

I'm sure many Sindhi's, Baluchi's and Mojairs will feel the same way as the rest of us in South, West & East India do.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Thats exactly why I am saying it is inherently wrong to hold entire nations hostage to the likes of a few, and that the best way out is to accept the status quo and move on.

I'm sure many Sindhi's, Baluchi's and Mojairs will feel the same way as the rest of us in South, West & East India do.

If the Kashmiris are happy with it so be it, who are we to discuss on their behalf? At the end of the day its Kashmiris who have been divided by the LOC. Have the Kashmiris ever been asked what they want?

[Ali_Syed]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Thats exactly why I am saying it is inherently wrong to hold entire nations hostage to the likes of a few, and that the best way out is to accept the status quo and move on.

I'm sure many Sindhi's, Baluchi's and Mojairs will feel the same way as the rest of us in South, West & East India do.

like Ninja mentioned above there's no Mojair in Pakistan.

[mufaddal]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

who are these peoples?

The MQM guys in Karachi, I guess....

[mufaddal]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

like Ninja mentioned above there's no Mojair in Pakistan.

OK, my bad......

[mufaddal]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Have the Kashmiris ever been asked what they want?

As I previously mentioned, they regularly vote in local , state and national elections
when you cast your vote you do so because you accept its legality.

When I vote in Mumbai, I do so because I accept the Indian constitution and my rights enshrined therein.

Nobody in the country is specifically asked whether or not they want to be Indian, then why should we be any different with the Kashmiris

[Ali_Syed]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

As I previously mentioned, they regularly vote in local , state and national elections when you cast your vote you do so because you accept its legality.

When I vote in Mumbai, I do so because I accept the Indian constitution and my rights enshrined therein.

Nobody in the country is specifically asked whether or not they want to be Indian, then why should we be any different with the Kashmiris

There is a problem in Kashmir, which has been a source of two wars and one close call for a nuclear one. Its Kashmiris who have been divided by the LOC, its important to ask their opinion. The statusquo is not a solution. In Indian Occupied Kashmir, the issue is the Kashmir Valley (which is predominantly muslim). I dont think the Kashmiris would have any issue with Jammu going over to the Indians. Anyways an amicable solution of this lingering issue is needed, sweeping it under the rug and hoping that it would go away is not the solution.

[mufaddal]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

There is a problem in Kashmir, which has been a source of two wars and one close call for a nuclear one. Its Kashmiris who have been divided by the LOC, its important to ask their opinion. The statusquo is not a solution. In Indian Occupied Kashmir, the issue is the Kashmir Valley (which is predominantly muslim). I dont think the Kashmiris would have any issue with Jammu going over to the Indians. Anyways an amicable solution of this lingering issue is needed, sweeping it under the rug and hoping that it would go away is not the solution.

From what I understand the problem lies in the Sunni Muslim areas of Kashmir, essentially the valley a a few surrounding areas. Divisions are not new, they exist with Gujarat, Punjab & Bengal, so the division of Kashmir is not unique in this regard. The north of the valley are Shia strongholds and they are very content with their Indian nationality, so is the Buddhist East and Hindu South.

So all of these wars and the resultant instability in 2 nations affecting 180 million people in Pakistan and 1.1 billion in India is for a few (not all) people in the Kashmir valley!!!! Sad!

[Med911]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

[quote="Med911, post:6092, topic:248431"]

[quote="mufaddal"]

Your Home MInister recently butted into our Internal affairs by asking the Indian State to provide security to SRK. That was totally unwarranted....there are many other such instances....I am not inclined to google them now.

Because Rehman Malik decided to piss of the Indians a bit, makes all Pakistanis takedars of Islam? First of all, Sharukh Khan said that when ever something happens, he is told that he should go back to his "country." So Pakistan didnt butt into that conversation, the Hindu extremists decided to throw Pakistan into the conversation. Your Hindu brethren decide to throw YOU under the bus every time something arrises, its not Pakistan...

Islam is a religion comprising 1.5 bILLION people. To say a people are Thekadars of ISLAM, means the impose themselves on the entire Muslim worlds interpretation of ISLAM the faith. Pakistan does not import its ideology to any other country. We dont finance Madrases, we don't force any nation to adopt Pakistans variety of Islam. To say that Pakistanis involve themselves in the petty disputes of INDIAN Muslims is an exaggeration to say the least, and even if they do, it still doesnt fit the criteria for an Islamic Thekadar.

So give me another example. i SHOULD think that if pakistan had gotten involved with issues relating to Indian Muslims, it should have been when they Hindu mobs were murdering them en masse, but otherwise, I dont think anyone really cares about Sharukh or his issues.

[Med911]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

As I previously mentioned, they regularly vote in local , state and national elections when you cast your vote you do so because you accept its legality.

When I vote in Mumbai, I do so because I accept the Indian constitution and my rights enshrined therein.

Nobody in the country is specifically asked whether or not they want to be Indian, then why should we be any different with the Kashmiris

Thats the biggest load of horse manureyour govt has ever vomited up.Its quite disgusting.

As many Kashmiris themselves have pointed out, though they want freedom, voting is not meant to be a validation of Indian rule. Its the people trying to better themselves through the only means they have available.

The people who you are referring to became Indian at partition. The issue wasnt with your state or those with Hindu majorities, the issue was with MUSLIM majority states such as Kashmir. Kashmir was supposed to be given the right decide and was promised this by Nehru himself. India decided to betray the asspirations of the people of kashmr and decided to add them to the Indian Union. The people of Kashmir did not want to be, and clearly do not want to be Indian, and your army is there as an occupation force. Its unethical on all levels. Civilized countries do not behave this way, and yet India trumpets itself as being one.

[Med911]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

From what I understand the problem lies in the Sunni Muslim areas of Kashmir, essentially the valley a a few surrounding areas. Divisions are not new, they exist with Gujarat, Punjab & Bengal, so the division of Kashmir is not unique in this regard. The north of the valley are Shia strongholds and they are very content with their Indian nationality, so is the Buddhist East and Hindu South.

So all of these wars and the resultant instability in 2 nations affecting 180 million people in Pakistan and 1.1 billion in India is for a few (not all) people in the Kashmir valley!!!! Sad!

Well it is sad. But thats why the situation must be resolved. The status quo is not an option, as tolerating injustice is not a remedy. Eventually there will be more blood shed, more protests more uprisings. It would be in the best interest of all if Indians stop fooling themselves and admit that Kashmir is an issue that must be resolved. You can begin by removing your soldiers and prosecuting those responsible for human rights violations.

[Med911]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

I still maintain that there is no cultural affinity between a Sindhi and a Kashmiri and a Baloch and a Kashmiri and between Mojairs and Kashmiris. So unless by your logic all Pakistanis are Punjabi's, not all Pakistanis have a cultural affinity with the Kashmiris, they merely are co-religionists.

lol... Your like a like 5 year old. Believe what you like, it doesnt change a thing.

[Med911]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Has anyone asked all the Kashmiris that? They seem to be regularly voting their local government, and participating greatly in voting their central government in Delhi.

If as you say ALL of them dont want to be Indian, then there would be zero turn out at local and national elections.

EXACTLY! Lets ask them. Oh wait, India wont allow that!

Like I mentioned earlier, whether they vote or not is irrelevant. They still have to live. Next you will tell us that because they import food from India, they must accept Indian rule.

Dont be fooled by your govts propaganda.

[rommel]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Has anyone asked all the Kashmiris that? They seem to be regularly voting their local government, and participating greatly in voting their central government in Delhi.

If as you say ALL of them dont want to be Indian, then there would be zero turn out at local and national elections.

with 500,000 indian armed forces putting a gun to your head you are going to vote aren't you?

democracy by the gun never gonna work not in afghanistan, iraq and not in kashmir.

[oldman_rivers]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Calling you a fly on the wall is not an insult dummy (although this is). Its called sarcasm... Your statement implies that you are privy to information that others are not. Your assumption is that Indians are docile and well intentioned, but you base that on nothing at all. The statment about what it means to "clarify" doesnt imply that I have any inside information. It is common sense. There is always the "OFFICIAL" statements, and there are are statements that are of the cuff. This is common sense. You have to be an idiot to not understand that common sense is just that, common. What you did was imply something (Indian intentions) which you have no way to verifying unless you were some how privy to classified info which you are not.

Once again you have exhibited complete inability to understand even very simple sentence structure, so I guess I have to be much more explicit and not trust you to use your powers of comprehension. sigh! brain is such a waste on some people.

My dear dear med911! do you not see the how your charge of 'fly on the wall' is immediately followed by your own interpretation of pentagon intents, as if you had a seat there? please, read slowly if you have to and don't give up. It is difficult only at the beginning, then once the brain is primed it will be much easier

[diwana]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

I still maintain that there is no cultural affinity between a Sindhi and a Kashmiri and a Baloch and a Kashmiri and between Mojairs and Kashmiris. So unless by your logic all Pakistanis are Punjabi's, not all Pakistanis have a cultural affinity with the Kashmiris, they merely are co-religionists.

Now you are flip flopping again.

You talked about coreligionist and cultural affinity. Punjabis in Pakistan have both factors in to Kashmiris. Try finding the same example of affiliation from India.

And do not forget Azad Kashmir also.

How hard is that to get? At least look at the map of the area before talking.

There are a whole lot of cultural differences among many areas of India. Let's divide India based on that then.

Until then you should not talk about any cultural differences among Pakistani communities.

[Med911]

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Once again you have exhibited complete inability to understand even very simple sentence structure, so I guess I have to be much more explicit and not trust you to use your powers of comprehension. sigh! brain is such a waste on some people.

My dear dear med911! do you not see the how your charge of 'fly on the wall' is immediately followed by your own interpretation of pentagon intents, as if you had a seat there? please, read slowly if you have to and don't give up. It is difficult only at the beginning, then once the brain is primed it will be much easier

Are you on medication?

Lets go through this slowly as your obviously not keeping up... Like I said earlier, try not to be a complete imbecile please.
Your entire statement reeks of someone who is insanely naive.

Simple English for you then. How can you be so certain of the actual intentions of your govt vise a vise Afghanistan and Pakistan? What evidence is there to assume their motives are docile? Are you a fly on the wall during private meetings between your intelligence and your govt? Just answer the question. Read carefully, your obviously not very smart and your very angry, so you are prone to missing vital content.

You dont need to be a fly on the wall to understand how govt work...
My comment about the pentagon does NOT require any inside knowledge of US govt motives. That there is an OFFICIAL policy is common sense. All govt functionaries have to follow this script, he official script. This is how govt works moron. Chuck Hagel made his comments, I suspect, not in an official capacity but something of the cuff. Once your in a position where you have to follow a script, you cannot say things like this any longer. The US govt officially does not believe that India is supporting Baloch insurgents, and if they do, or if the suspect it, they cannot say it outright as this wold offend the Indians, and no one wants to offend the Indian these days.

The motives of the Indian govt are not generally made public. There is always the official line any govt tells their citizens, and the unofficial, that is said and done behind closed doors. The wikileaks episode was so damning because it exposed what is unofficial.

So once again, how are YOU so convinced that Indian motives in Afghanistan are completely wholesome? Why should anyone believe that Indian motives are wholly altruistic with no ulterior motive? We have seen what India is capable of in Kashmir. POTO, the anti terrorism legislation passed by your govt doesnt offer much hope, and we all know Indias corruption is epic and transparency is unheard off. So breath, barking isnt helping your cause.