India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Well at least you are agreeing that India does fund terrorist activities in other countries.

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

That was just a slip :D

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

the "world" does not care for anyone's proof where there is no economic interest. and where there is economic interest, proof appears magically (WMD in iraq, etc). if india has been able to do all this in nato-occupied afghanistan, and they didnt even mention it anywhere except chuck hagel's college speech last year, it doesnt matter to them, or they are complicit with it too. nato is packing up real soon, no one will give two hoots about afghanistan soon besides those left holding the bag.

the only way to resolve this for mutually coordinated de-escalation with india, but realistically with how both sides have been historically, how is such a big step even possible? there was a time when pakistan had the upper hand if we went to talks and negotiating settlements, but that time has long gone. and india is going hawkish, so they wont do anything while the sun is shining their way.

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Everyone who has even small interest in sub continent politics knows India is active in Afghanistan, it is a shame it took the words of an American senator for people to believe this.

Yes of course India does terrorism, next time you hear of a bomb going off in balochistan or other parts of pakistan remember there are also American agencies and Indian agencies in the area.

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

These interpretations are absolutely wrong. India is in Afghanistan rebuilding that country, providing funding and expertise. Just because Pakistan funds and used terrorism as state sponsored strategy does not mean others do that. Guilty conscience os what is behind a lot of Pakistanis accusing India in this respect.

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

but that Secretary of Defence of USA now, who said that even if you discard Pakistanis accusations!

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

I agree, and for the time being I dont see any deescalation of tensions. Its a vicious cycle, two full fledge wars, and then Siachin as a result we saw Kargil, Pashtunistan issue/Bangladesh and then Kashmir/Khalistan, and now Balochistan.

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

like Shak mentioned its different when the accusations are coming from a guy who is now the Secretary of State of US.

Re: India ‘financed problems’ for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

^ how does that change reality? his own Pentagon is scrambling to ‘clarify’ as you can see at Chuck Hagel.

India simply has no need or interest in creating hassles for Pakistan. The Pakistanis do a grand job of it themselves!

Re: India ‘financed problems’ for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Clarifying in this context, means bringing his stance in line with OFFICIAL policy. the statement he made was apparently prior to his current posting. Our concern in this thread is not official policy, as that is always a reflection of economic and political expediency (Realpolitik dictates they stay clear of issues that get the Indians upset), but rather what govt officials believe or understand to be fact in their real assessment of truths on the ground.

I am always amazed by how docile everyone assumes the Indian state to be. Ruthlessness is not something unheard of in indian politics, and the way in which India has conducted itself in Kashmir, makes is it abundantly clear that where Kashmir is concerned, India will go to any length to secure its interests.

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Really? And you know this because you are currently stationed as fly on the wall of some indian govt institution, privy to everything from highly classified intelligence to individual bathroom habits?!?!

Or is there a mailing list providing every Indian with the exact details of al govt and intelligence dealings?

Because if there is one thing we all appreciate of the Indian govt, its transparency...

LOL... Actually, many countries have funded "terrorists." The biggest example i can think of is the UNITED STATES! Except, the term "terrorist" is only applied when said group no longer serves the interest of its masters... In fact, terrorist is a very ill defined term which we often use to label anyone that disagrees with us. Everyone from the Taliban, to the indian Army are terrorists in someones book.

its pretty clear, the intelligence world is extremley murky and much goes on that we have no clue off. So to assume that India is to be held to a higher standard then other nations in terms of what it does in private, is insane given what we know India does out in the open and in places like Kashmir.

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel


what a silly reaction to the idea of india "financing problems" for pakistan (presumably some kind of reference to balochistan). this has been pakistan's state policy towards india since 1947 but on a much larger scale - from financing insurgencies to urban terrorism.

you want pakistan's govt/military to "raise hell" about this comment to the international audience? the world's smallest violin is playing for you, brother.

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel


this might be true but why is that? pakistan is effectively a non-party to the issue at this point. there is no plausible outcome to the conflict that leaves pakistan better off than the status quo. accession to pakistan has been off the table for a long time so there is no prospect of being a territorial beneficiary. if we assume the solution is an independent kashmir valley, why would pakistan be so invested in this outcome? it is a purely emotional investment. that south asian peace is being held hostage to emotions is quite bizarre.

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

hm! so you are a fly in the walls of pentagon and heard them define 'clarify' as this ? obviously it is a habit with you people to just make up stuff, then change definitions to suit those made up stances and finally use each others's made up nonsense as corraboration. Realpolitik indeed! You have no clue what you are talking about here because 'your concern' is imaterial to pentagon or India!

Until you open up to reality you will continue to be 'amazed' as you say

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

This is not something out of vacuum. India has been supporting pashtunistan movement in the 70's, we had bangladesh and Indian role there, we had siachin in the 80's. If Pakistan has proof of Indian involvement they should expose them internationally, appeasement of bullies doesn't work.

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Well, if accession is of the table, then so is complete independence. I think its equally unlikely to see an entirely independent Kashmir as neither side will ever accept that, as much as the Kashmiris would want that for themselves.

However, emotional investment does exist, and it sounds irrelevant in the context of this humble forum, but when your talking about the identity of a nation, then its highly relevant. There is cultural, religious affinity with the people of Kashmir. There is a reason the injustice committed in Kashmir resonates with the people of Pakistan. And so long as the issue remains, there will always remain resentment towards India that will manifest itself in the form of terrorist attacks or LOC confrontation from last month.

Despite this, Pakistan I believe has realized that ultimately its interest is in amicable relations with India, hence the rapproachment that has existed since the 90's. However, as is abundantly clear, the Kashmir issue is always the thorn in the side of relations.

lets not fool ourselves, the animosity exists today, its because of Kashmir. Even the loss of East Pakistan hasnt created the same level of resentment. Emotional or not, it is what it is. And emotionality is not a South Asian trait, the world is full of such examples, is there no emotion involved in the Palestinian Israeli conflict, the problem with North Korea, and was there no emotion involved in the Cold war or Vietnam etc?!?!

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Im giving you common sense. What you said is naive and screams of someone with little sense of how the world works.

What stuff have we made up?

Ad hominem attacks will not help you here. You sound like just another in a long line of imbeciles who will quickly become irrelevant on this forum. Welcome to GupShup.

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Since 1947? How and where has pakistan been funding trouble in India since 1947? The uprising in Kashmir started in 1990, which is when Pakistan got involved. Is there actual evidence for such funding by Pakistan prior to the 1990's?

I mean if your talking about clandestine operations, then both countries are guilty of that. Surjeet Singh for example actually admitted being an Indian Spy on his return to india.

As Ali Syed mentioned, india had been suspected of promoting the Pashtunistan issue, which is why Pakistan began getting involved in Afghanistan to begin with... Indian support for separatists in Bangladesh is no secret.

I really cant understand why Indians are so trusting in the motives of their govt?!?! What is it exactly about India that makes you assume they are so docile and blameless? I mean demonizing Pakistan is fashion of the day even among Pakistanis, but why should anyone assume India is a saint among nations?

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Well I beg to differ, I am a Muslim but I do not share a cultural affinity with the average Pakistani. I have met a few on my travels abroad but to me they might as well be North Korean. I share a greater cultural affinity with Christians in Goa, Jews in Thane and HIndus along the Konkan coast.

As far as religious affinity goes, I do not think that exists. I do not see Christians in India get riled up for injustices met to Christians in say Bolivia, or the Philippines.

Similarly I believe that Pakistani Sindhi's, Baluchis or Punjabi's do not share a cultural affinity with Kashmiris, even tough they may practice the same religion, and are better off looking after themselves than picking up cudgels on behalf of co-religionists elsewhere.

What Pakistan needs to do is back off a bit, accept the status quo on the LOC, get tough with terror groups operating on their soil, and in due course of time wounds will heal and India and Pakistan can have meaningful, normal relations, which is what is needed most of all.

Re: India 'financed problems' for Pakistan via Afghanistan: Chuck Hagel

Excuse me?

Did you just fall off a garbage truck?

Do you really want to go that route and let me tell you what some Indians I know/met, might as well be?