India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

We know how much power they really have, so why care about it? The problem is that military doesn't want to close all their doors on people who they will be needing in future again for some other covert missions/operations. NOTE: Same applies in case of Taliban/Al-CIAda.

Timepass
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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

I'm not Indian... I'm a koshur speaking Kashmiri, from Kasheer (vale of Kashmir)...

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

In the context of Pakistan's elections, any endorsement of a Pakistani politician by India (or Indian leaders) is pretty much a death knell to their chances. I bet Pak politicians will kill to have themselves portrayed as tough on India, as thats a good vote-grabber amongst our people who are brought up with lessons of nishan-e-haider in '65 and '71 wars. India is the bad bad country that attacked Pakistan in the middle of the night and brave Pakistan forces fought them back and gave them a crushing defeat. Oh well.

I doubt Benazir will lose sleep over Mr Narayanan's displeasure.

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

THis MK narayanan is national security advisor. He just expressed his opinion. But irrespective of what anyones opinion is, eventually indian government will negotiate with anyone who is in power in pakistan. Nearly 10 years ago, there was democratic government in pakistan and both governments started off friendly relations between the two countries. Negotiations continued even after military government came to power. So this only says, Indian government will trust/negotiate with anyone that comes to power. Whether it is NS,BB or army!. And that approach is correct also. No need to do anything which would tantamount to poking in internal affairs of another country...that too when both countries have been a sworn enemies.

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

I accept azad kashmir is our integral part, but ground realities are real and need to be accepted.

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

^ Yeh you can call Azad Kashmir an integral part of Pakistan now, since Pakistan did such a brilliant job totally screwing up the demographics of the area, thus the reason why we still haven't had the UN promised plebiscite.... SIGH

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

Sorry buddy... Integral or not, your either going with Pakistan or India.. There's no two ways about it. The best you can hope for is some degree of autonomy, and the only way to get that is through Pakistan.. Mean time, feel free to tour Pakistan as freely as you like and be proud you have a country and passport...
Best regards:)

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

Sir, you dont have to be a great power to have some self respect... Chinas Taiwan policy isnt so beyond us as to not be able to emulate them...
The point is, make friends, make pals... But keep whats impotant close and no when not to negotiate... Is that so difficult?

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

Its dead because Mush doesnt know how to implement forreign policy properly... Whats needed is a consensus through democratic process... Let the National Assembly decide the fate of the Kashmir policy, and let the govt decide through consensus what the countries plan of attack should be.

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

Proud to have a country and a passport? Kashmiris have Indian Passports and can tour India freely lol. I was born in England though so I have a British Passport :P...and yeh the best thing we can hope for is autonomy but I dont know where you got the Idea that it would be through Pakistan??? Pakistan has dishonoured and desecrated every single thing that would give autonomy to Kashmir. India on the other hand has preserved Kashmir, Indians are not allowed to settle in Kashmir or buy property there whereas Kashmiris may go anywhere in India and buy property, also the Indian constitution also allows for autonomy in Kashmir. The problem in Kashmir is the highly militirized atomosphere, Indian soldiers are true assh*les for the lack of a better word, but they are there because of Pakistan's continuous masti!!

India was not and is not the aggressor when it comes to territorial issues, it is Pakistan that is the aggressor. If India pulled its troops out of Kashmir, Kashmiris would be happy just like pre 1989..which was also Pakistans masti...

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

Going to war over Kashmir would be to once again embolden the jihadis and their ideology. What is wrong in Pakistan, is wrong in other countries. Need to learn from blowback.

Who are you voting for / Why?
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Re: India can’t trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

Dont know why you have such a bias… Your not an Indian, your just someone whos land is occupied by India… You have no choice but to use an Indian passport, otherwise you wouldnt be able to move to the UK.
Unlike India, we are still here to support you and try to get you the freedom you desire, or atleast, full autonomy.. And if you havent heard, Pakistan was only aggressive in pursuit of your HUMAN RIGHTS… Thats why you people started fighting the Indians in the first place… Actually, you Kashmiris started the uprsing yourself and it was later joined by Jihadi groups because you were obviously unable to dfeat the oppresive force of the Indian army which was summarily murdering people, and raping women and all the other grotesque happenings on…
Pakistans Kashmir policy may not be perfect, but the hallmark is still the right for KASHMIRIS to choose which country they would wish to join. And the Indian soldiers you call A-holes are representing India.. They are INDIAN soldiers.. You have to be pretty brainwashed to excuse India for the actions of its soldiers!
If you are happy with the situation then by all means, when India decides to let you decide, you can vote for India… But obviosuly, the Indian govt dosnt respect your right to choose.
Indian troops are there to oppress the people of Kashmir plaine and simple. Pakistans “masti” was in pursuit of your Human rights.. If India decides to give you the right to decide yo own fate then Pakistan would have no grudge. This all stems from Indias unwillingenss to allow you your basic rights.
Fact of the matter is, that you dont have country except Pakistan.. Pakistan is the only country that cares for your rights. You seem to have been brainwashed by Indian propaganda so there is no point in continueing.. Just be glad you have a supporter in Pakistan that will never abandon you rights..
If we cant get you freedom from the oppresion of India, we will certainly make every effort to allow you complete Autonomy… You can thank us later in Kashmir forum where this sort of stuff actually belongs.

Freedom is just beyond the Horizon my friend, dont despair, we are with you… :jhanda:
God bless:)

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

Pakistan didnt do anything to the demographics.. Its India that denies you plebisicite not Pakistan..
And they use the lame excuse that its because the Pandits are no longer there.. Well heck, the Pandits know who they are, the Indian govt knows who they are, tell them to go back to Kashmir and vote... Honestly, its ashame you blame everything on Pakistan without even realizing who your true enemy is...
You need to go back and read your history buddy.

Anyways continue this in the KASHMIR FORUM if you like..

Breaking News!!!! Osama Bin Laden is dead
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Re: India can’t trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

All you ppl advocating the ‘indian claim’ on kashmir are going too far with ur love for mushy

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007\12\19\story_19-12-2007_pg7_19

Musharraf no longer saviour of Kashmir?
LAHORE: Kashmiris, both unionists and separatists, saw President Pervez Musharraf as the one who could clinch a settlement on the disputed territory, according to an article published in Hindustan Times.

However, their reaction to the upheaval in Pakistan was in total contrast to that in the rest of India. Strangely, the phenomenon has been little noticed and has aroused no reflection. The jihadis and the extremist fringe, having rejected President Pervez Musharraf’s concessions on Kashmir, speak with an air of vindication, the article adds.

Syed Ali Shah Geelani said on November 5, “The suspension of the Constitution and the removal of Supreme Court judges is unconstitutional and against the democratic rights of the people of Pakistan. We (Kashmiris) can’t ignore the developments in Pakistan. These have a direct bearing on us.” On November 4, People’s Democratic Party President Mehbooba Mufti said on a local TV channel, Take One, “Naturally we are concerned. We have a sentimental and geographical affinity with Pakistan.”

The former chairman of the Hurriyat’s moderate faction, Abdul Ghani Butt said, “Pakistan is not the only country where emergency has been imposed.” He also criticised the judges. “There has to be harmony among the three pillars of the state — the executive, the legislature and the judiciary”.

There were jubilant celebrations on Musharraf’s re-election as president. This, to be sure, is not the first time that Kashmiris responded to events in Pakistan altogether differently from other Indians. Sumeet Kaul’s report in the same newspaper said, “I had read somewhere that your preconceived notions of nationalism, of Indian nationalism, are severely tested in the Valley.

They were. And that, perhaps, was more difficult to come to terms with than even the guns. Wherever we went, we were almost invariably referred to as the ‘guests from India’; not with malice, but casually, incidentally.”

Recently, three times in as many weeks — on November 19 and 23 and December 5 — a Unionist, Farooq Abdullah, leader of the National Conference, warned that if violations of human rights continued “the people might be forced to rethink about the accession (of J&K to India in 1947)”. Four incontestable truths sum up the situation today — de-accession is ruled out; popular alienation is deep; Kashmiris yearn for self-rule and reunification — the LoC must be rendered ‘irrelevant’; and lastly, Pakistan must be a party to any accord. The Manmohan Singh-Musharraf consensus respects all four, said the article. daily times monitor

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

What about your prestigious army? Atleast for once support Pakistan and if you can't then just go and live in India...

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

When nawaz(democratically elected guy) came up with lahore declaration, it was mushy who scuttled it. One of the reasons which he said was compromising on kashmir issue by nawaz. And even in agra when he came there, he wasn't really liked by indian politicians for his approach.

P.S - Moreover, it shouldn't really matter for indians as to who is in power in pakistan other than aalsi. The one organization which india will be having greatest difficulty dealing with is already in power in pakistan !!

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

If any leader can come to agreement with India over Kashmir it is Musharraf, and I am sure the progress on this will accelerate after the Pakistan elections.

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

^ I think Hazart Altaf Hussain is better choice isn't it. He is in favour of combining Pakistan with India, na ho been na bajhay bansri

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Re: India can't trust Benazir as Pak PM: M K Narayanan

All theories aside, one gets what one can grab and defend.

For several decades now India and Pakistan have grabbed or defended current loc and in spite of kargil et al, that hasn't changed one bit. Meaning military actions to change loc will not yield any change from and for either side.

If anything, the past 6 years have seen Pakistan suffering grievisly on the global war of words to the point where the words jihad, mujahid and terrorist have become synonimous. Under this state, even an accusation of state sponsored terrorism (or mujahideen or jihadi) will be met with negative connotations for Pakistan as a country.

So all considered it is useless to rekindle so called Kashmir issue.

The politicians have something else to run on - musharaf and terrorist attacks within Pakistan is the platform for one side; USA and losing the religion is the platform for the other.

Neither side in the Pakistan politics needs the Kashmir issue.
So there is no issue.