Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
^ simply we can agree to disagree. We do have right to complain when we suffer due to bad decisions. At one time in Saudi Arabia king wanted to have Eid on the day when no moon was sighted and in Fajr he announced to celebrate Eid... everybody celebrated Eid, some people complained (not that it would've mattered) and some didn't.
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
There's a big difference between the king and the ulema ;)
anyways, eid mubarak
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
I agree to captain 1 completely, we are told to open fast at sunset, how many of us stand at the rooftops following the sun going down to open the fast, charts based on maths issued and we follow. whole moth we work on maths and one day actual sighting is required.
Islam is a simple religion but perhaps our religious leaders fear their authority will be diluted if they start allowing these relaxations. i am skeptical that people of the Arabian peninsula were so good in mathematics to base the lunar calendar on calculations.
Precisely because of this confusion lunar calendar is not of any practical value and not used anywhere in Muslim world (exceptions must be there) except for this eid confusion.
How will business of the state will run if i you want me to reply something say by 1 shawwal and my 1 shawwal(saudi arabia) is two days or one day or sometimes on the same day to yours (say Pakistan). Islam was never an unpractical religion to my understanding.
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
its ridiculous. eid is wednesday in Pakistan, so Muslims over the world are celebrating eid on three different days. not to mention countries that are practically neighbours are two days apart in the calendar.
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
exactly, Islam is not a regressive religion that is why a lot is left to be decided on ground.
Why not all Muslims agree on selecting Medina as reference for calendar and by mathematical calculations decide the calendar for future and issue it all over the world. whats the problem in stopping it? will it be wrong if we remove the confusion? It should be lunar dateline like the international solar dateline in pacific.
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
then why dont you guys start praying according to medina time....
by the way i guess wednesday is actually the eid day. Now we are trying to sight the moon since yesterday over here in states, there is a clear sky with stars out but no trace of moon....so maybe ramzan didn't start on sunday......
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
by the way i guess saudia didn't even sight the moon, they just started ramzan without sighting....
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
Would NASA declare that it didn't sight the moon, if in a certain region the moon had appeared, but only above the clouds (i.e. people on the ground could not see it)?
The hadith is very simple (first three lines of the thread).
I think its better than sitting home waiting for your local maulana to declare the moon has been seen while confusion scattered everywhere because the maulana in the other village has not seen it.
So.. your telling me that.. if the Maulana in your village made the wrong decision (in your opininon) and celeberated Eid the next day, you would disregard his decision and pray Eid prayers on the day as the other village? In other words, you'd go pray Eid prayers with the other community.
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
You probably had no clue what you were doing. Otherwise you wouldn't have had this problem.
If you & your local masjid didn't sight the moon, then how did you come to know that you missed the first fast? Why do you follow other communities?
If your local masjid didn't sight the moon, and then another masjid (not your local) did, you'd follow the other (discarding your local)?
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
For all those crying about why it was late, and why we have to put a stick in the ground.
Use common sense for once.
Moon orbits the Earth, the Sun doesnt. You can calculate since there isn't any variation in the movement of the sun, since the earth is NOT pulling it in its orbit. UNLIKE the moon, whose hilal is variable since the gravitational pull affect it.
And why was the moon ssighted at 12 am? cuz...in california it was only 9-10pm. while in the eastern time zone, it was 12 am, so do the math!
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
Moon doesn't show up late like 9PM-10PM while sun is setting around 7:40-7:50PM, it only shows up for few minutes after sunset (not complete darkness).
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
Read my post above, the moon-sighting was announced very late and I came to know next morning, I am still talking about same masjid announcing late.
[quote]
If your local masjid didn't sight the moon, and then another masjid (not your local) did, you'd follow the other (discarding your local)?
[/quote]
Read again.
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
lol its still possible to see it, confirmation and sighting and recording it isn't that easy, it takes time.
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
Eid Mubarak! Inshallah! I hope everyone had a blessed Ramadan.
I think most people are missing the point, that we are supposed to follow the lunar calendar. The method of determining it has changed but not the fact that we are still following a lunar calendar. This is the primary difference of understanding between an educated maulana and a village maulana. 1400 years ago there was no other way of determining the lunar month other than sighting the moon. Astronomical calculations and telescopes did not exist then whereas today they do and help us determining the moon cyles, which could only be determined 1400 years ago by sighting the moon. So those using astronomical calculations are not abandoning the lunar calendar but are only using a better means of determining it. The point of the hadeeth is that a lunar month cannot exceed 30 days but it can be shorter i.e. 29 days. using astronomical calculations is not causing muslims to abandon Ramadan or prevent fasting or preventing an Eid from happening. If it is not preventing from any of that from happening then what is the point about it that goes against Shariah.
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
^ that is a pretty bold statement.
Lunar calendar, has variations in the HILAL that it displays the birth of the "CREST". This is what is mentioned in the Quran and Hadith.
Calculations will give you the birth of the moon, but not the HILAL of the moon. Thats just an assumption.
We llive our life by Quran and Sunnah, not deeni ilm. Deeni ilm, is incompassed in Quran and Sunnah, thats why deen and duniya ilm are one in the same. There is however, duniya ilm thats harmful, we can't use that for islamic purposes now can we? (im not talking about lunar calculations...just some ilm in general such as mastarbuation is healthy, while islam condemns it as haraam..)
I hope you get what I'm saying.
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
Lunar calendar, has variations in the HILAL that it displays the birth of the "CREST". This is what is mentioned in the Quran and Hadith.
Calculations will give you the birth of the moon, but not the HILAL of the moon. Thats just an assumption.
We llive our life by Quran and Sunnah, not deeni ilm. Deeni ilm, is incompassed in Quran and Sunnah, thats why deen and duniya ilm are one in the same. There is however, duniya ilm thats harmful, we can't use that for islamic purposes now can we? (im not talking about lunar calculations...just some ilm in general such as mastarbuation is healthy, while islam condemns it as haraam..)
I hope you get what I'm saying.
Actually I meant to put a question mark on my last sentence. Yes we absolutely have to live our life by Quran and Sunnah however I think I am one who tries to understand the underlying principle of a Sunnah rather than blindly following the literal text of the hadith, which reports it. There was no soap 1400 hundred years ago, why do you use it now. The underlying principle is for purification and today you know soap does a good job and if its ingredients are permissible there is no better alternative. I'm sure you would not go look for sand and water as a soap alternative would you.
The variations in the lunar calendar can be deduced through astronomical instruments these days. Again the point is to know the birth of the moon. If it stays cloudly and you do not spot the moon then you end the Islamic month at 30 days. This is a given. The importance of sighting the moon via naked eye or telescope is less than preventing the friction between the muslims over this issue and having some unity. Again as I mentioned in our quest for unity we are not abandoning Ramandan or Eid so then I ask again how does it violate the Shariah aspect of it? We are still basing the start and end of Ramadan based on the lunar month, just using a different method, which is more accurate to do the same thing. This is like we do not need to use a loud speaker in the masjid but rather put a Muazzin in the Minaret and have him give Adhan to a local community spread across half a mile. Now we abandoned the Sunnah of giving Adhan in a way that was given 1400 years ago or did we? I think not, we just changed the means to achieve the same thing. Adhan is still given, just more amplified and wide spread now. We did not abandon anything here.
Again, village maulanas tend to cause more commotion about such issues compared to other more vital issues plaguing the ummah because they are used to living in smaller village set environments where there mind has not yet developed to see the benefits of modernity when used properly for the service of deen. They want to think of themselves as indispensible in their little settings and resist changes, which diminshes their value. I have nothing against maulana's however backwardness is a disease that Islam came to abolish not embrace. As long as we are not violating the Shariah then modernity should not be closed out.
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
i think everyone will still be able to have the same eid even if the sighting aspect is unchanged. If we use some calculations, we can atleast have people who share the same nightsky have eid at the same time, because thats like 50 percent of the earth, and its possible to see the moon in some part of the world either by naked eye or telescope, which means that everyone in that region of the world WILL see the new moon if not for cloud cover, without going into calculations or anytihng.
whats wrong with that?
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
whats wrong with that?
If both methods are OK then, common sense says we should use the one which is easier and more dependible i.e. astronomical or telescopic compared to naked eye sighting. Use astronomical instruments you will only and only see one moon in outer space whereas using naked eye on earth can yield different results. Clearly the benefits of using astronomical instruments to start and end Ramadan outweigh those of naked eye sighting unless you can prove otherwise.
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
Very well
We pray according to movement of sun not moon ma’am,
Please learn how date is acertained in solar calendar, there is an arbitrary date line in the pacific ocean just opposite to the prime meridian with few minor deviations (so that one country has only one date). This is just a reference so travel from Tonga to Samoa by air takes approximately two hours, but involves crossing the international date line, causing the passenger to arrive the day before they left. similarly if we set the islamic datelineat Medina or Mecca or for that matter any reference, whenever the moon sighted there, the date starts and it follows according to local time in each specific region. In this manner the countries east of The Islmaic meridian will be one day behind Saudi date but there will be no uncertainity, which is very required if we want to adopt this calendar in every day life.
Just a question, if there are clouds and one cannot see the moon, can one go up in the air above the clouds and see the moon?
Re: Inaccurate Decision of ISNA’s Fiqh Council Creates Controversy
I agree completely to the US Resident's suggestion & analysis. However i can only pray, when will we able to shed the clout of these narrow minded ulemas who cannot think beyond their noses