Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
Dead person can never come again to this world !
[23:101] That I may do righteous deeds in the life that I have left behind.' That cannot be! It is only a word that he utters. And behind them is a barrier until the day when they shall be raised again.
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
In Urdu :
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5555/quraannabuwat1ko.gif
http://img2.uploadimages.net/060060imammehdi.gif
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
Prophet Muhammad s.a.w said, Imam mehdi (Promised Messiah) will come, you must accept him. (Ibn-e-Maja)
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
I believe History will repeats itself.
Reasons!
This is sunatullah. because todays Muslims even dont need any Musleh. when Promised Messiah will come. Muslims will say; Messiah was to come from sky. and you are born here. how can you be a messiah.
Muslim will also say; that you are messiah you are claiming that you are a Prophet of Allah. but In islam Muhammad s.a.w is a last prophet. you are a kazzaab & Dajjal.
But as usual "Allah has decreed: 'Most surly I will prevail, I and my messengers' (It means not the False messengers) Verily Allah is powerful, mighty." [58:22]
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
Assalamu Alaykum,
I am not going to reply to the external postings anymore, because I do not feel we are continuing the same discussion. We discuss one issue and from there the post that you send jumps to a completely different issue. Now the post that you have sent is around the interpretation of a few verses, which was different from your first post, then your second post. From this I conclude that you do not have an answer for my first post, neither my second post. You neither addressed them, nor refuted them, so I believe that what I said was correct.
I have already explained in my previous post in light of Quran how a messenger of God prevails in this world. Examples of previous messengers and fate of their nations has been propounded by Quran. If there were another messenger after Muhammad (pbuh), I have already claimed that he would prove his messenger ship plainly and clearly as previous messengers - Noah (pbuh), Abraham (pbuh), Lot (pbuh), Moses (pbuh) and many others - proved. It is also my claim that no messenger has come that has done this so far. This post of mine was posted at: http://www.omeriqbal.com/eesakibaasat.html
I respect your view, but it is only your view. This is not Quran, so we cannot accept it as a reason for our beliefs. Similarly, your points regarding the Mehdi and Musleh are your understanding of how Muslims will behave. It has nothing to do with what God wants us to do.
I will appreciate if you can post your comments instead of forwarding us to links with a different topic each time. That is not a productive discussion and in that we do not learn from each other, which should be our primary aim out of such discussions.
Best Regards,
Omer Iqbal
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
[QUOTE]
Book 001, Number 0327:
'Abdullah reported on the authority of his father 'Umar b. Khattab that he heard from the Messenger of Allah (may peace he upon him) say: I was sleeping when I saw myself making circuit around the Ka'bah, and I saw there a man of fair complexion with straight hair between two men. Water was flowing from his head or water was falling from his head. I said: Who is he? They answered: He is the son of Mary. Then I moved forward and cast a glance and there was a bulky man of red complexion with thick locks of hair on his head, blind of one eye as it his eye was a swollen grape. I asked: Who is he? They said: He is Dajjal. He had close resemblance with Ibn Qatan amongst men.
[/QUOTE]
In the same narration, you have missed this part. I must let you know that both these ahadith are the same narration of the Prophet (pbuh), reported by two different people. Since hadith was narrated a person to person, it was very well possible that people missed some words, forgot them or added their own words. In addition, you will notice that it is two different narrators who reported from the Prophet (pbuh). Are we basing a hadith without keeping in mind that one of the narrators may have just forgotten the word "Jesus"? If he had Jesus in that hadith, wouldn't we say that the two ahadith are partly conflicting. Not only that in the same hadith, notice that the complexion is fair and then red! Why would we then select fair over red to compare with the other hadith.
[QUOTE]
Prophet Muhammad s.a.w said, Imam mehdi (Promised Messiah) will come, you must accept him. (Ibn-e-Maja)
[/QUOTE]
This is again a belief based on Hadith. I do not blindly accept it. However, even if we accept it, there is no mention of him being a prophet or a messenger of God. Consequently, I fail to appreciate its relevance to accepting a new messenger.
And to add, there is no CLEAR verse in the Quran. For instance, compare with the Old Testament:
"I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. " (Deutronomy 18:18)
Is there anything as clear in the Quran? It is very specific "I will raise up for them a prophet" - no confusion. If you can provide me a verse as clear from Quran, I will accept that a messenger must come right away.
Only the best wishes,
Omer Iqbal
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
Who is believer According to Quraan?
One who Believe on Allah and Muhammad [s.a.w]
**[3:180] **Allah would not leave the believers in the state in which you are, (This is a present continous tense) until He separated the wicked from the good. Nor would Allah reveal to you the unseen. But Allah chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases. Believe, therefore, in Allah and His Messengers. If you believe and be righteous, you shall have a great reward
http://img2.uploadimages.net/665788aaminoo.gif
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
Assalamu Alaykum,
The discussion is not around whether we believe in messengers or not. Of course, all muslims believe in messengers of God and a good list has been provided in Quran already!
The real question is whether there is a messenger after Muhammad (pbuh) or not. This verse does not suggest in any way that a new messenger will come. It just says that we should believe in the messengers and we do.
Take care,
Omer Iqbal
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
And what about this:
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5555/quraannabuwat1ko.gif
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
Mr omeriqbal
You are rejecting the Hadith in which Prophet Muhammad s.a.w said that "Messiah A Prophet of Allah will come". Which is already the one who has to born in this Ummah !!
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
Who is believer According to Quraan?
One who Believe on Allah and Muhammad [s.a.w]
**[3:180] **Allah would not leave the believers in the state in which you are, ***(This is a present continous tense)***until He separated the wicked from the good. Nor would Allah reveal to you the unseen. But Allah chooses of His Messengers whom He pleases. Believe, therefore, in Allah and His Messengers. If you believe and be righteous, you shall have a great reward
http://img2.uploadimages.net/665788aaminoo.gif
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
One more verse!
7:32] O children of Adam! take your adornment at every time and place of worship, and eat and drink, but be not immoderate; surely, He does not love those who are immoderate.
>>>> [7:36] O children of Adam, If Messengers come to you from among yourselves, rehearsing My Signs unto you, then whoso shall fear God and do good deeds, on them shall come no fear nor shall they grieve.
Childerns of Adam will remain till Qayamat !
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
Prophets can not come with bringing new teachings outside from Quraan !!
**[4:70] **And whoso obeys Allah and this (Muhammad) Messenger shall be among those on whom Allah has bestowed His blessings - the Prophets, the Truthful, the Martyrs, and the Righteous. And an excellent company are they.
In urdu > http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5555/quraannabuwat1ko.gif
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
So, Mr Omeriqbal
Promised Messiah will be a Prophet of Allah under Quranic shariyah !! So, He will be rejected as usuall. And History will repeats itself once again!
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
mfjkd, only ahmadis will support ur views....
muslims dont believe that Isa (as) will come back as a prophet....
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
ok! but I dont talk on Ahmadis. I already said that ;
Majority is not the sign of Truth:
[6:117] And if thou obey most of those on earth, they will lead thee astray from Allah’s way. They follow nothing but mere conjecture, and they do nothing but lie.
When you read my views. All are based on Quraan & Sunnah.
Now I believe that todays Muslims Views are not Quranic. Like you see I proved it!
Todays Muslim believes that Isa ale-salam will come not as a prophet. But they have not a single proof of this that he will not be a Prophet. They have not a single proof that Isa ale-salam is alive on heaven. So they are actually confused. They dont know what is the situation…
I tell you one thing very clearly. when Promised Messiah will come. He will tell us what is the real situation. And What Allah has said to him, whether He is a Prophet or not ! because Promised Messiah will be much educated than us. He will know much Quraan than Us. He will know much Sunnah than us. But again as I said that people will reject him. So, He will be rejected because Todays muslim dont know. In which form EESA aleh-salam will come. They just believe that Muhammad is the last messenger of Allah. and we dont need any Prophet or Musleh. close eyes. !
They you know definitly avoiding the saying s of Rasool Allah s.a.w that Imam Mehdi or Messiah will come and break the cross, and kill Dajjal. you must accept him. But they dont care … Astaghfirullah
May Allah give them Guidance. Ameen.
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
thank u for sharing ur views....
but as i told u, the muslims dont share ur views....
u dont take a verse from here and a verse from there and a hadith from here and there and tailor it all to produce something that u want and call ur view based on Quran and Sunnah....
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
how about u share ur “muslim” view on this subject?
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
Armughal, FrozenFire,
Assalamu Alaykum,
There is a good discussion going on between mfjkd and myself; I want to continue on the same topic. Would you mind if there was a separate thread on this separate topic that you want to discuss?
All in good spirits,
Best,
Omer
Re: [IN URDU] Will History repeats itself ?
Assalamu Alaykum,
For each of the issues that have been raised, I will address them in different responses to keep a track of everything myself.
In this part, I will address the two narrative of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) in which Isa Ibn Mariyam (Jesus son of Mary) and Ibn Mariyam (son of Mary) are used.
Before addressing this particular issue, it is important for us to understand the way Arab names are composed and used by the Arabs. Not understanding Arab names can cause a lot of confusion especially for the people of the sub-continent who are often times not able to understand the naming conventions.
In the simple forms, an Arab name is composed of the following parts:
1) Given name (ism), e.g. in my case, it would be Omer
2) Kunyah, containing a term of relationship, such as father, mother, brother, son, sisters etc. In my case, it would be ibn Iqbal. When followed by Omer, according to Arabic rules, it would become bin Iqbal.
3) Laqab, which I do not have, but given to some men for some quality that he possesses. For instance, Abu Bakr Siddique has Siddique as Laqab.
The remaining components of an Arab name are not important for our discussion so I will not go in those details.
The name components of Jesus (pbuh) are the following:
Given Name: Jesus (Isa)
Kunyah: ibn Mariyam (son of Mary)
Laqab: Al-Masih (Messiah)
Arabs may refer to the same person using one or multiple components of the names. So for instance, Abu Bakr is also known as Abu Bakr Siddiqui. However, in our purpose, we need to establish whether only one component suffices as a complete name or not. In this regard, the following references shall help:
W. M. Thackston in "An Introduction to Koranic and Classical Arabic" writes,
"An individual may be known by any one or more of his names." (Ibex Publishers, 2000, p 182)
J. A. Haywood, H. M. Nahmad in "A new Arabic grammar" write,
"In the case of authors and other famous historical characters, the name by which a man is popularly known may be any one of the above three elements, e.g.
a) Al-Khalil bin Ahmad is known as Al-Khalil;
b) Abul-Hussain Muhammad bin Jubayr is known as Ibn Jubayr;
c) Muhammad bin Jarir At-tabari is known as At-tabri from Tabaristan, his place of birth." (Lund Humpries, 1965, p 360)
From this, we can conclude that prophet Jesus (pbuh), who is a famous historical character, can be mentioned by Arabs using any one of: Jesus (isa), ibn Mariyam (son of Mary), Al-Masih (Messiah) along with any combination of these. Now if we look at the name of the prophet Jesus (pbuh), it has been used in Quran as "Al-Masih Isa Ibn Mariyam" in the following verse:
"(And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! God giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto God)." (Al-e-Imran 3:45)
If we look at other verses in Quran, we shall find that Quran has often times used different methods of referring to prophet Jesus (pbuh). For instance:
Use of only Al-Masih:
"The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto God, nor will the favoured angels. Whoso scorneth His service and is proud, all such will He assemble unto Him;" (An-Nisa 4:172)
Use of only Jesus:
"The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was." (Al-e-Imran 3:59)
Use of Jesus, son of Mary:
"Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt." (Mariyam 19:34)
Use of Al-Masih, son of Mary:
"The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!" (Al-Maidah 5:75)
And finally the use of son of Mary only:
"And We made the son of Mary and his mother as a Sign: We gave them both shelter on high ground, affording rest and security and furnished with springs." (Al-Muminoon 23:50)
As you can see, Quran has not only mentioned son of Mary but also mentioned about her mother who have been made a sign. In other words, this is a direct reference to prophet Jesus (pbuh).
In some of the narratives of the Prophet (pbuh), we shall find a similar usage of the names for the same person. For instance,
"Abu Huraira reported God's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: While I was asleep I saw myself on a well with a leathern bucket on a pulley. I drew (water) out of that as God wished me (to draw). Then the son of Abu Quhafa (Abu Bakr) drew from it one bucketful or two and there was some weakness in drawing that (may God forgive him). Then that bucket (changed into a large bucket) and Ibn Khattab drew it. I did not see any strongest man drawing it like 'Umar bin Khattab. He brought out so much water that the camels of the people had enough to drink and then laid down (for rest)." (Sahih Al-Muslim No 5890)
As you can see, it is generally the way Arabs use their name. It is indeed my belief that such confusions only exist in subcontinent where people do not understand Arab names well.
I hope this clarifies that the two narrative of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) really talk about the same person, and taking that to be a different person is not only a stretch, rather incorrect and against the Arab's usage of names.
I hope this issue has been clarified.
Best Wishes,
Omer Iqbal
