Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
a question - is there any balochies or sindhis here to discuss their issues?
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
all of this crap of doing business with the choodi bugti. It's like bush trying to make peace with bin laden. Shouldnt and wont happen.
Shoot these bastad traitors. If you want to kill Pakistanis Pakistan will kill you simple as.
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
No, the pashtuns and commies from kabul are here to defend their cause
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
..........It is the same thing going on in Iraq. ........ ..........This is the era of landmines and IED's and even the US army cannot defeat this menace, ........
This is the worst kind of association. Oh Baboo Raam US army is there as an "occupire". Pak army is defending the homeland. Kapeesh!!!
baboo list the conditions for autonomy. Don't just beat the drums of ignorance.
Balochis had 60 odd years to do away with Sirdars. They couldn't. You think bunch of kommie-leftie poets will be able to rid of Sirdars. Then you are clearly mistaken.
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
Defending the homeland by attacking Baloch tribes who live in Balochistan isn't exactly working. They consider the army has occupiers and thats what matters. Those 60 odd years were spent with Islamabad paying royalties to select sardars and supporting others under periodic dictatorships and economic neglect. Not really an interference free atmosphere for any social development.
And Islamabad can ask the Baloch leaders for specifics once the shooting stops. Or it can continue to be stubborn and lose all of Pakistan.
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
How long did it take to put down the insurgency in Karachi? How many bullet riddled bodies showed up in the sewage drains?
Oh Baboo! it takes a while by applying slow but constant force to control the anarchists.
Nobody likes shooting, not within the country. Army has to move in after the anarchists started running wild in the region. Bomb blasts, killing of Chinese engineers, and you name it.
However you continue talking about autonomy while pointing guns (or supporting the idea), at the law enforcement agencies. So either put up or .....up.
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
I mean specific to the proposed, propagated by Quaid-e-azam and but not-so-proven after his death. There are millions of Hindus and other minorities in Pakistan and ditto for Muslims in India- how do they define two different nationalites was my question.
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
Oh Baboo Khan, 2-nation theory is not equal to ethnic cleansing. Minorities can live in Pakistan and Bharat without any danger to the theory.
Jinnah simply wanted to protect the rights of minority in South Asia in a peaceful and constitutional way. That is why he never proposed the politics of agitation. Don't you know he never went to jail?
Jinnah's struggle was constitutional and dragging him into petty squabbles is utterly shameful.
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
I know but ethnic cleansing happened.. didnt it? There is no muslim Punjabi left in India except Mohd. Rafi and Anu Malik- all of them were either killed by Sikhs or ran away to Pakistan. Ditto for Hindoos and sikhs in Pakistan. By the way, you didnt answer my question- was it right to brand the 2 major religions (Hindoos and muslims) 2 nations? BTW, who is Babloo khan?
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
The JWP around two years back presented these points
The 15-point demand forwarded to Mr Aziz, which was made public on Wednesday, includes:
Provincial autonomy to the satisfaction of the people;
Baloch people should be the owner of their natural resources and wealth besides running their own affairs;
the Balochistan government should have powers to execute administrative,
financial and planning matters related to mega projects including Gwadar and coastal-belt schemes;
the provincial government should control the revenue of the mega projects;
employment in the projects should be the right of the local population;
the planned cantonments should be abandoned and land acquired by force be returned to owners;
rectify the revenue record; Senate should represent the four federating units and inclusion of Islamabad and Fata in the Upper House by revoking the amendments made during Ziaul Haq’s period should;
the levies force of 1,000 men recruited by the ISI and the MI in the Marri area to suppress tribesmen should be disbanded;
all armed forces from interior Balochistan should be withdrawn; the provincial government should control all civil armed forces;
the provincial assembly should have the authority to frame laws for Balochistan;
in the federating units the federal law should not override the provincial laws;
problems of gas companies should be resettled;
and all prisoners kept under various pretexts (political reasons) should be released
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
…i agree with you for once antiobl:D:halo:
apart that i’m from a country where people are ratherrpoud of their roots and atttached to their culture ans laguage, but the first touristical desitnation in the world (france:halo:)
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
parissenor you are not a pakistani??
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
Aaahh the beautiful place and even more beautiful people. Oh France I miss you.
The food, the warmth, the friendship, the hospitality is the best in France. You are so fortunate to be there.
If any group of people on this large globe of our world are in love with life (well when they are not protesting against the new law), they are French. Women are beautiful (and they work on it), the food is delicious and prepared with love, the places are clean and the country-houses and their owners so proud yet so friendly. You have to get out of Paris to experience the chateaus. I have always enjoyed the walk between louvre and Arch the Triumph. Oh the restaurants in the little alley ways off of Champs-Elysees. It is just surreal so magical.
I wish Chaman was as famous as Champaign for its bubblees. We have plenty of grapes and yet they all go to waste. For Mullah types, non-alcoholic bubblees! Off course.
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
antiobl, mohajirs despite everything done to them still remained pro-pakistan because we helped create Pakistan. Balochs don't have that baggage. Pakistan was imposed on them. We should have listened to their demands in 1947, but even now it is not too late. Talking with bullets will not work for them. This is the era of landmines and IEDs, and old military tactics of superior force against an entire population cannot against these guerilla forces. There situation is very much like the Kurds in Saddam era Iraq.
People have asking for autonomy in all provinces for many many years now. No one paid attention to them when there was peace.
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
What is being accomplished by keeping undreds of people in illegal detention and using torture on them? Is this how rights are given to people?
Protesters in Quetta call for release of activists
By Our Correspondent
QUETTA, April 4: Dozens of women and children staged a sit-in outside the assembly building on Tuesday in protest against detention of Ali Asghar Bungulzai and other Baloch activists. The protesters chanted slogans against the government and intelligence agencies and called for immediate release of all illegally detained Baloch activists.
The protesters gathered in front of the assembly’s main gate where they were addressed by PPP parliamentary leader Nawab Aslam Raisani, MPA Akhtar Hussain Lango of BNP-Mengal and chairman of the Asghar release committee Nasrullah Khan.
Women MPAs of the BNP-Awami and MMA Farah Azim Shah, Samina Saeed and Amina Khanum expressed solidarity with the protesting women and children.
Speakers called upon the government to either release the illegally detained men or produce them before a court of law and prove the charges against them.
Members of the agriculture workers’ union led by Salim Baloch and Sher Muhammad Lodhi addressed the rally in the hunger strike camp adjacent to the press club and condemned the detention of Saeedur Rehman and Ali Asghar by intelligence agencies.
Representatives of the workers’ union said that Ali Asghar’s children had been on a token hunger strike for the last eight months but regretted that the government had not taken any notice of them.
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
Excellent points raised here.
Of sardars, development and the state
Aasim Sajjad Akhtar
There is a tale being woven by the storyteller rulers of this country about development, sardars and the ubiquitous writ of the state. As far as the powers that be are concerned, what is actually happening in Balochistan is beside the point. What is more important is that the daily instances of dissent and resistance are suppressed, for such news surely does not corroborate the grand claims that the state is setting straight all the unruly elements in the province, and even better bestowing the benefits of globalisation on the Baloch people.
The parliamentary nationalist parties, whether by their own choice or not, have realised that they must stand with the resistance, that is if they want to remain relevant to Baloch politics. There is a distinct sense that a coherent and organised political resistance is re-emerging to match the pockets of insurgency in and around Dera Bugti, Sui, Kahan and Kohlu that the government insists it has under control. The current conjuncture represents the first time since the tumult of the 1970s that the Baloch people have unified politically to give voice to the intense resentment that they harbour towards the centre. And so, contrary to all the propaganda, the writ of the state appears to be wearing very thin.
Ultimately this government – and it is high time that the claims of it being a representative one are challenged overtly – does not enjoy a popular mandate. Then again, very few governments in Pakistan’s history have enjoyed anything resembling a popular mandate, largely because mainstream politics in this country is essentially a contest between competing entities for the army’s favour. On the other hand, ethno-nationalism represents the closest thing to popular, anti-establishment politics that exists in the country.
Has ethno-nationalism been a tool of hegemony for dominant classes within the Baloch, Sindhis, and Siraikis etc? To some extent it has, because anywhere that nationalism is propagated as an ideology of an undifferentiated ethnic, racial or linguistic group, it is always likely to be a vehicle for a (relatively) powerful elite. The example of Pakistan is exemplary – the slogan of Muslim nationhood was propagated far and wide (mostly) by elite Muslims for years before Pakistan became a political reality. In the initial few years after the creation of the country, there was enough euphoria to sustain the myth of Pakistani nationalism. However, particularly since 1971, Sindhis, Siraikis and Baloch (among others) identify themselves with their ethno-lingual group first, and as Pakistanis after that (if at all).
As such, the ethno-national movements which have been such a prominent feature of Pakistan’s political landscape (in spite of the incessant efforts to project them as conspiracies hatched by God knows whom) are also driven by class conflict. Within the Baloch nation, there are dominant and dominated classes, and the contradiction between these classes will not be resolved if the demands of Balochi nationalists are actually met. However, does this mean that the entire politics of Baloch nationalism is a façade, that the slogans currently being raised across the province are simply the work of a handful of sardars, and that people actually want the state to free them from the grip of tribalism?
Urban modernists who despise the ‘feudal’ system and invoke it as the cause of all of Pakistan’s many problems would like us to believe exactly that. As would our generals who have taken it upon themselves (as they have done numerous times in the past) to re-establish order and rid Balochistan of this epidemic called ethno-nationalism once and for all. But worryingly for these champions of ‘development’, the nationalist fever is spreading, and fast. In fact, the problem is now no longer just exclusive to the Baloch – ordinary Punjabis too are now increasingly sceptical of the myriad claims being made by the government, whether in reference to Balochistan or to the Pakistani polity at large. There is simply no evidence to back the government’s claims, while there are a multitude of reasons to be drawn to the demands of the nationalists.
Nonetheless, the state has so systematically undermined the political process over a period of 2-3 decades that it remains very much in charge in the rest of the country, even if its grip over the Baloch is steadily weakening. The charade that nobody quite believes continues to be propagated far and wide, yet disaffected people everywhere find it hard to conceive that anything can come of expressing themselves politically, primarily because the state has co-opted or crushed almost every political entity that it has come across.
In the Baloch case, it would appear as if the nationalists have been driven into a corner, and the state may now well find that it has incited genuinely radical politics that it cannot control. Long gone are the days when people thought that the politics of the religious right might constitute a genuine threat to the status quo. It is now increasingly apparent that the MMA & co. are, as the popular saying goes, the army’s B-team. So that leaves the nationalists, and it would be hard to argue that they represent, at the present time, the only form of politics that stands to challenge the state. But how progressive is this alternative after all?
There is talk that the Baloch nationalists have foreign links. Some more cynical observers insist that they are supported by American imperialism while others have other similarly albeit slightly less damaging conspiratorial theories. One could hypothesise on such links and how meaningful they are indefinitely. Whether or not one can get to the bottom of who supports the nationalists, the fact of the matter is that they now face a situation that requires them to adopt a more radical stance vis a vis the state than at any other time in recent memory. And this is not the fault of any external force, but instead the only response can be expected to a state that insists on wielding the big stick.
That having been said, there are numerous elements within the nationalist movement that do call attention to the class contradictions within the Baloch nation, just like there are such elements within Sindhi, Siraiki, Pakhtun and other ethno-national movements in Pakistan. However, the state has ensured that the most vocal strands of ethno-national movements remain those of the dominant classes. If, for the sake of argument, one were to agree that the current manifestation of Baloch nationalism is just a handful of sardars, which is, at best, a highly dubious proposition, then who is responsible for this state of affairs? Was it not under Ziaul Haq’s dark reign that progressive political activists, many of whom were part of ethno-national movements, were rounded up and subjected to harassment, imprisonment, torture, and exile?
Furthermore, organic politics is by definition dynamic politics. There is no way to pre-programme the composition of nationalist movements such as that of the Baloch, and it is simply a lack of understanding that underlies claims that such movements are the personal jagir of a handful of influentials. Given the fact that the centre has always insisted on politics that is exclusive and undemocratic, the existence of disaffection along ethno-national lines is not surprising. But this disaffection does not need to be blind to class exploitation either. And in many cases it is not. It is the state that continues to portray what is happening in Balochistan as the work of a few sardars, while presenting itself (read: the army) as the solution to its woes. What is happening in Balochistan extends far beyond a few sardars and the ‘development’ magic wand is exactly what the Baloch do not want. If the state refuses to accept the reality of the situation, the rest of us should before it’s too late.
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
Anu Malik is a muslim…? :aq:
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
Yeah anu malik is a muslim. Anu malik's father sardar malik was a famous music director .anu malik's father came from east punjab and settled mumbai
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
Jinnahs struggle for Pakistan has been totally underminded by punjab and its actions. Everything Jinnah fought fr has been destroyed and sullied. We are no longer a nation living in peace. Bullet ridden bodies in Karchi gutters might make you happy but many innocent peopel got shot too.
There are no Sindhis and Balochies here because they do not feel a Psychological part of Pakistan. Erm I see no Kabul kommies here. What is a Kabul commie btw?
Re: In Remote Pakistan Province, a Civil War Festers
Afghanistan before taliban had a russian backed government so they were towards communism.
The kabul commies of gupshup are thoe who support afghan nationalism and support the idea of a pakhtoon province consisting of all the pakhtoons aread of NWFP balochistan and punjab and some of them advocate greater pakhtoonistan as well