In Pakistan

When i try to see Pakistan through the news and media then is see a country which is no better then Somalia or Nigeria, but then i roam the streets of Lahore, Enjoy the delicious food at Food Street behind Shahi Mosque or walk in the busy Market of Anarkali or take a walk in Shalimar Gardens or Bagh-e-Jinnah or been dragged by my sister in Liberty market for shopping then nothing of that sort can be seen.

On my recent visit to Pakistan, I saw busy roads, People cursing govt while telling me how much profit they have made and what new methods have been introduced in the market to avoid taxes and what not…

Yes there has been days when i met few who have seen the ugly side of the their businesses, who have suffered alot from power shortages and are near to bankruptcy and i have seen also those who were nothing few years back and have now grown phenomenally in an environment which in the world is labelled as war-area or dying economy or anything close to it.

Markets are busy, roads are jammed and restaurants are busy as hell… what other sign i need to see in the country to draw a conclusion??? During my recent visit i have been to Lahore, Islamabad, Peshawar and Karachi, apart from Karachi ( because the day i landed their some Shia folks got killed over a stupid dispute but then next day i enjoyed alot at Clifton) where things are bit surprising for me… in a sense i have been to this city after the break of 6 years and thanks to Mustafa Kamal, now this city looks like a city… I had plans for Quetta as well but my cousins were in my city to attend the wedding and with all the trips i had, never had time left to visit that mountainous city i loved the most.

All in all, when it is said, Is Pakistan safe to visit? Is it OK to stay in Pakistan, is it right time to do business there??? and then looking at the so-called Pseudo-intellects saying no to these, i was wondering, this time around, if any one wants, then this is the best time to enter into Live Stock Business, best time to re-visit the trading partners and look into new markets of Bangladesh, Myanmar, Srilanka, Central Asia and Asia Pacific, Specially Japan, where the fish and related item are in great demand.

The problems such as power cuts, corruption and all these are there and they there in whole lot of South Asia, the Country called India who is giving us 500 MW of electricity, faces power cuts upto 4-6 hours in cities like Delhi and Mumbai…

What i liked most is the available opportunities in Pakistan and i don’t like is lack of chances for somebody like me to invest in these. Pakistanies can easily be called sheep-herds because they just tend to follow what other is doing without thinking twice about it, although i have also notice little change in that and hope things will get far more better then they are now.

I just hope someday, we stop at focusing on the problems only and try and work out the realistic and doable solutions of our problems…

For instance look at our neighborhood, the country where 70% of the population and that is 4 times of our total population lives under the line of poverty, where one third of the country is known as Red-Corridor, where The movement like Kashmir Freedom Movement is ranked as 3rd because there are other serious separatist movements going on can do better with all these things, then we have better infrastructure and brains (globally acknowledged fact).

Why complain only, why not do things, why search for jobs why not create them??

Re: In Pakistan

This. :k:

Re: In Pakistan

You have all - but you neither have PEACE nor SECURITY .... Even Pakistani Nationals don't want to invest in Businesses here let alone the FDI ...

Re: In Pakistan

Good sentiments, but one day in Clifton does not show u life in Karachi.

Every few weeks, people run to their house, because the same Mustafa Kamal’s thugs are killing people, the latest cycle of killing was just last week, over 20 dead.

Amongst other problems.

We never had that problem with Naimutallah who did a lot of good work in Karachi.

Anyways…wish us luck, we need it. :jhanda:

Re: In Pakistan

I could not have said it better myself…

Western media foaming at mouth is nothing out of the ordinary but whats most amazing is that some Pakistanis come out dancing even if someone farts in the neighborhood!.. Either way below is a very intersting article and 100% on the mark.

The ‘poor’ neighbour | World news | The Guardian

Re: In Pakistan

Interesting article but it's from 2007, during the past 5 years democracy has taken its toll, loadshedding between 8 to 16 hours, gas shortages, inflation, joblessness and other similar issues. Many industries in faisalabad are on death bed and the exports especially in textile have been hit badly. However all things are solveable only will and vision is required from the government.

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And 5 years ago the theme was not very different.. same old BS over and over.. and 5 years from now it will be teh same dance... Just read and enjoy

Re: In Pakistan

Mumbai never seen load shedding ............

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Personally I dont care much about the western media so long as the situation for the ordinary people is ideal, but if you see the situation is getting deteriorated with the passage of time. The country is in a free fall. If we consider the situation between 2007 and 2012 the load shedding (of gas and electricity) was much lesser than we have now, inflation, security situation (about 40000 people killed in WOT, Balochistan, Karachi, situation deteriorating in Gilgit/Baltistan), big government institutes dying (railways & PIA etc) and sadly no vision by the government to overcome these monstrous challenges.

Re: In Pakistan

Pakistan was failed state 10 years ago and its no different today and it wont be any different 10 years from now, if you get the gist.. The sky was falling, is falling and will be falling. I think Shri Hanibal has made a very valid point. The more things change the more they remain the same.

Re: In Pakistan

Either you do not know or the media is lying...

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Mumbai is capital of maharashtra.....when all maharashtra faced problem of load shedding for last 6/7 years...mumbai and few big cities enjoyed zero load shedding...and i m from maharashtra...

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If Pakistani Nationals stop wasting their money in pursuing work visas and invest the same amount in Pakistan, i am sure FDI will follow, how come it is possible that economy deteriorate and security and peace and law and order situation remain intact!!!

The whole point is, try to make living out of it, there are negatives but there are positives as well and unless you stay on the pitch and bat out the worst period there aren't any chances of win around...

Re: In Pakistan

Pakistan: A Hard Country by Anatol Lieven

Pakistan, Anatol Lieven writes in his new book, is “divided, disorganised, economically backward, corrupt, violent, unjust, often savagely oppressive towards the poor and women, and home to extremely dangerous forms of extremism and terrorism”. It is easy to conclude, as many have, from this roll call of infirmities that Pakistan is basically Afghanistan or Somalia with nuclear weapons. Or is this a dangerously false perception, a product of wholly defective assumptions?

Certainly, an unblinkered vision of South Asia would feature a country whose fanatically ideological government in 1998 conducted nuclear tests, threatened its neighbour with all-out war and, four years later, presided over the massacre of 2,000 members of a religious minority. Long embattled against secessionist insurgencies on its western and eastern borders, the “flailing” state of this country now struggles to contain a militant movement in its heartland. It is also where thousands of women are killed every year for failing to bring sufficient dowry and nearly 200,000 farmers have committed suicide in the previous decade.

Needless to say, the country described above is not Pakistan but India, which, long feared to be near collapse, has revamped its old western image through what the American writer David Rieff calls the most “successful national re-b*****ng” and “cleverest PR campaign” by a political and business establishment since “Cool Britannia” in the 1990s. Pakistan, on the other hand, seems to have lost all control over its international narrative.

Western governments have coerced and bribed the Pakistani military into extensive wars against their own citizens; tens of thousands of Pakistanis have now died (the greatest toll yet of the “war on terror”), and innumerable numbers have been displaced, in the backlash to the doomed western effort to exterminate a proper noun. Yet Pakistan arouses unrelenting hostility and disdain in the west; it lies exposed to every geopolitical pundit armed with the words “failing” or “failed state”.

Such intellectual shoddiness has far-reaching consequences in the real world: for instance, the disastrous stigmatisation of “AfPak” has shrunk a large and complex country to its border with Afghanistan, presently a site of almost weekly massacres by the CIA’s drones.

Pakistan’s numerous writers, historians, economists and scientists frequently challenge the dehumanising discourse about their country. But so manifold and obdurate are the clichés that you periodically need a whole book to shatter them. Lieven’s Pakistan: A Hard Country is one such blow for clarity and sobriety.

Lieven is more than aware of the many challenges Pakistan confronts; in fact, he adds climate change to the daunting list, and he is worried that Pakistan may indeed fall apart if the United States continues to pursue its misbegotten war in the region, thereby risking a catastrophic mutiny in the military, the country’s most efficient institution. But Lieven is more interested in why Pakistan is also “in many ways surprisingly tough and resilient as a state and a society” and how the country, like India, has for decades mocked its obituaries which have been written obsessively by the west.

Briskly, Lieven identifies Pakistan’s many centrifugal and centripetal forces: “Much of Pakistan is a highly conservative, archaic, even sometimes inert and somnolent mass of different societies.” He describes its regional variations: the restive Pashtuns in the west, the tensions between Sindhis and migrants from India in Sindh, the layered power structures of Punjab, and the tribal complexities of Balochistan. He discusses at length the varieties of South Asian Islam, and their political and social roles in Pakistani society.

Some of Lieven’s cliché-busting seems straightforward enough. Islamist politics, he demonstrates, are extremely weak in Pakistan, even if they provoke hysterical headlines in the west. Secularists may see popular allegiance to Islam as one of the biggest problems. But, as Lieven rightly says, “the cults of the saints, and the Sufi orders and Barelvi theology which underpin them, are an immense obstacle to the spread of Taliban and sectarian extremism, and of Islamist politics in general.”

From afar, a majority of Pakistanis appear fanatically anti-American while also being hopelessly infatuated with Sharia. Lieven shows that, as in Latin America, anti-Americanism in Pakistan is characterised less by racial or religious supremacism than by a political bitterness about a supposed ally that is perceived to be ruthlessly pursuing its own interests while claiming virtue for its blackest deeds. And if many Pakistanis seem to prefer Islamic or tribal legal codes, it is not because they love stoning women to death but because the modern institutions of the police and judiciary inherited from the British are shockingly corrupt, not to mention profoundly ill-suited to a poor country.

As one of Lieven’s intelligent interlocutors in Pakistan points out, many ordinary people dislike the Anglo-Saxon legal system partly because it offers no compensation: “Yes, they say, the law has hanged my brother’s killer, but now who is to support my dead brother’s family (who, by the way, have ruined themselves bribing the legal system to get the killer punished)?”

Lieven, a reporter for the Times in Pakistan in the late 1980s, has supplemented his early experience of the country with extensive recent travels, including to a village of Taliban sympathisers in the North West Frontier, and conversations with an impressive cross-section of Pakistan’s population: farmers, businessmen, landowners, spies, judges, clerics, politicians, soldiers and jihadis. He commands a cosmopolitan range of reference – Irish tribes, Peronism, South Korean dictatorships, and Indian caste violence – as he probes into “the reality of Pakistan’s social, economic and cultural power structures”.

Approaching his subject as a trained anthropologist would, Lieven describes how Pakistan, though nominally a modern nation state, is still largely governed by the “traditions of overriding loyalty to family, clan and religion”. There is hardly an institution in Pakistan that is immune to “the rules of behavior that these loyalties enjoin”. These persisting ties of patronage and kinship, which are reminiscent of pre-modern Europe, indicate that the work of creating impersonal modern institutions and turning Pakistanis into citizens of a nation state – a long and brutal process in Europe, as Eugen Weber and others have shown – has barely begun.

This also means that, as Lieven writes, “very few of the words we commonly use in describing the Pakistani state and political system mean what we think they mean, and often they mean something quite different.” Democratically elected leaders can be considerably less honest and more authoritarian than military despots since all of Pakistan’s “democratic” political parties are “congeries of landlords, clan chieftains and urban bosses seeking state patronage for themselves and their followers and vowing allegiance to particular national individuals and dynasties”. (With some exceptions, this is also true of India’s intensely competitive, and often very violent, electoral politics; it explains why 128 of the 543 members of the last Indian parliament faced criminal charges, ranging from murder to human trafficking, and why armies of sycophants still trail the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty).

Lieven’s book is refreshingly free of the condescension that many western writers, conditioned to see their own societies as the apogees of civilisation, bring to Asian countries, assessing them solely in terms of how far they have approximated western political and economic institutions and practices. He won’t dismiss Pakistan’s prospects for stability, or its capacity to muddle along like the rest of us, simply because, unlike India, it has failed to satisfactorily resemble a European democracy or nation state. Rather, he insists on the long and unconventional historical view. “Modern democracy,” he points out, “is a quite recent western innovation. In the past European societies were in many ways close to that of Pakistan today – and indeed modern Europe has generated far more dreadful atrocities than anything Islam or South Asia has yet achieved.”

Busy exploding banalities about Pakistan, Lieven develops some blind spots of his own; they include a more generous view of the Pakistani military than is warranted. He doesn’t make clear if Pakistan’s security establishment can abandon its highly lucrative, and duplicitous, arrangement with the United States, or withdraw its support for murderous assaults on Indian civilians.

Still, Lieven overturns many prejudices, and gives general readers plenty of fresh concepts with which to think about a routinely misrepresented country. Transcending its self-defined parameters, his book makes you reflect rewardingly, too, about how other old, pluralist and only superficially modern societies in the region work. “Pakistan is in fact a great deal more like India – or India like Pakistan – than either country would wish to admit,” Lieven writes, and there is hardly a chapter in which he doesn’t draw, with bracing accuracy, examples from the socioeconomic actuality of Pakistan’s big neighbour. Easily the foremost contemporary survey of “collapsing” Pakistan, Lieven’s book also contains some of the most clear-sighted accounts of “rising” India.

Pankaj Mishra’s Temptations of the West is published by Picador.

Re: In Pakistan

I am not of the age where when i go to Clifton to enjoy the beach, i have some vested business interest in that area and my visit was pure business!!! so doesn’t matter if i am not in Karachi, the things happening there effects me one way or other, but for how long i’ll cry, better thing would be to create myself a win win situation till the overall situation gets better i.e. PPP gets voted out of the govt… chances are things will get better with better administration…

Your reply further surprises me as i believe and i can be wrong here, that you are a hardline supporter of PPP and no matter what you will vote for PPP, and as we all know, half of the problems we have at hand and because of the mismanagement of the PPP govt… and i also believe that you will still vote for them, so it would be more important for you to get use to it and see what you can do to survive.. apart from complaining though

Re: In Pakistan

If you didn't have anything related to the thread, then you can always open a new thread, i think so far mods have not put a ban on that or is it???

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and when it was not loadshedding or issues you highlighted then it was sect. killings in mosques in 90s, in 80s it was ethnic violence, in 70s it was political unrest and things goes on, so should we stop living? should we just look at the leadership and say because the leadership is not good lets not do anything about it??? all the matters you said and i have said so far have one answer, improve your economic situation and things will gradually get better... stop thinking a a spaceship from mars or ploto will come and spray some chemical and znnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn everything will get better or some leader will come and then again znnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn things will get better over night, it is a long and lengthy process, and as they say, doesn't matter how far you have to go, the distance get lesser with every move you make...

Re: In Pakistan

Agreed! My brother was in Sydney in 2000, where he used to work part time in some shop during night. Old men usually who didnt have anything else to do would rock up and start chatting with him on different issues, when they'd ask him from where he was and on hearing the word 'Pakistan' they'd tell him that the situation there is very bad and literally everyone has a gun etc. I agree if the economic situation improves many of these problems will go away.

Re: In Pakistan

I have quite a few links / news reports from India on load shedding in Mumbai but to be honest, I dont care..

Re: In Pakistan

same is with the state of Delhi and probably even Gujrat, I don't remember load shedding in my three months stay in Kutch area district called Bhuj even before progressive Modi came:)

Because these city generates better revenue than others, Load shedding is very less in neighbouring state of Maharashtra called Karanataka:D