Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
It won't be all gloom only when radical religious ideology is routed from the country. True that all societies have their problems, but no society can develop in the pesence of an ideology which propagates insecurity and fasaad.
That's true. However its always darkest before dawn. Radical religious ideology is self defeating, it has no legs. Generally, I think stupidity can never really sustain itself.
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
At least we excel in one field - way ahead of India in corruption and incomptence of our govt.
That's debatable.
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
Not a fair comparison. Pakistan was built in an area where it did not have any good infrastructure and industries. Not even in an area where water would be abundant.
Population difference, lower resources and lack of well developed institutions has played a big role in seemingly different achievements.
If one considers Pakistan being underdog since the beginning then the differences would either be none or very minimal.
The lifestyle of an average Pakistani is still much better than one from India.
India has two extremes of very poor or very rich and very few in middle class.
Just an FYI, population of Indian middle class is around the population of entire United States.
India's growth is just becoz of the educated middle class. For that matter, growth of any nation is becoz of middle class.
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
**The main reason for India developing is that it had almost 45 years of strong socialism.
**Forced land distribution gave land to the peasants + poor and destroyed the feudal system. Reservations in schools/govt jobs for lower castes and backward castes has also raised the collective status of people.
Main reason for India's lack of development and growth is and was socialism. Govt did good in banning Jagirdaari system, but ruined India's economy poking its dirty and currupt nose in managing industry, manufacturing etc.
It was govt. that would decide how many scooters Bajaj would manufacture. This babudom and babu mentality still prevails in India. Even today being an IAS officer is considered to be a super great achievement. Thanks to enterpreneurs in US, its ok for an indian student to dream ..to start a business nowadays.....In US young people dont want to be govt. employees, they want to be business owners and job creators....whereas in India parents (who are products to socialism) encourage their kids to be IAS rather than to be enterpreneurs....this socialism mentality almost killed India in 1990 when govt was forced to privatise and liberialise.
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Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
I just dont understand these comparisons that we come up every now and then. I honestly dont care if other South Asians countries are way ahead of us. what matters is what we are doing for our homeland and I dont think we should work for a progressive Pakistan, just because we want to compete with our neighbour. we should do it for the sake of peaceful and progressive Pakistan, for our future generations.
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
not only India but bangadesh n iran are also in far better condition then us..
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
I just dont understand these comparisons that we come up every now and then. I honestly dont care if other South Asians countries are way ahead of us. what matters is what we are doing for our homeland and I dont think we should work for a progressive Pakistan, just because we want to compete with our neighbour. we should do it for the sake of peaceful and progressive Pakistan, for our future generations.
comparisons are not always made in order to compete but to figure out what it is that we are doing wrong that they are doing right
that said i dont think its a fair comparison....but india has focused on education and healthcare reform...
n it would seem we dont care as much about our country, we are corrupt, we'll go to great lengths to pull each other's leg, and then we sit around and complain about our country without realizing that our country is in the state that it is in because of US
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
Amidst all this hoo haa can we look at some numbers please.
Economics focus: A wealth of data | The Economist
There are plenty more indicators but I think in the end its the masses and their living conditions that counts.
Also while we belittle Pakistan and every thing about it we should also keep in mind how it all started.
BBC NEWS | Special Reports | 629 | 629 | After partition: India, Pakistan, Bangladesh
In terms of economic resources, India did much better than Pakistan out of partition. It inherited 90% of the subcontinent’s industry and the thriving cities of Delhi, Bombay (now Mumbai) and Calcutta..
Thank you all and please continue with the usual hoo haa.
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
Just an FYI, population of Indian middle class is around the population of entire United States. India's growth is just becoz of the educated middle class. For that matter, growth of any nation is becoz of middle class.
Let me first say that this kind of P-contest (I censored the P word here for the benefit of all), has absolutely no value and it is very sad to see that the ex-CM of this forum brought this thread without any homework done.
I have already said the comparison is not fair.
A lot of factors play in to a countries progress and OP and these mindless writers of such articles (hired to spread lies) think being secular or religious has to do with the seemingly disparity between Pakistan and India.
I stand by what I said. Over 40% in India are below poverty line and a little more than 17% in Pakistan.
Living standard of average people in Pakistan is better than what it is in India.
Nothing to be proud about or boast about, but just to negate the propaganda to promote secularism.
Pakistan is underdog for being associated with Islam and there are lots of people around the world and countries who hate Islam and/or Muslims automatically hate Pakistan. But the history of Pakistan cannot be changed for few people's desire to promote secularism.
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
Living standard of average people in Pakistan is better than what it is in India.
And that pretty much sums it up... the rest is all hoo haa.... !!!
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
Despite it's start, Pakistan was seen as a model of economic progression in the 60's, so much so that South Korea emulated Karachi's planning to some extent. We can easily be a South Korea, or even a Canada, if the proper political system, and economic policies are in place.
India's advantages may be many, but it has one thing that is going to cripple it: it's massive underclass. Pakistan's economy is poised for growth, and is listed as a potential "future BRIC" by the Economist due to it's population. Not too big, but big enough. We just need the catalyst, and with the US's influence waning, and Western dominance equalizing with the rest of the world, now is a very good time to get our act together.
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
Let me first say that this kind of P-contest (I censored the P word here for the benefit of all), has absolutely no value and it is very sad to see that the ex-CM of this forum brought this thread without any homework done.
I have already said the comparison is not fair.
A lot of factors play in to a countries progress and OP and these mindless writers of such articles (hired to spread lies) think being secular or religious has to do with the seemingly disparity between Pakistan and India.
I stand by what I said. Over 40% in India are below poverty line and a little more than 17% in Pakistan.
Living standard of average people in Pakistan is better than what it is in India.
Nothing to be proud about or boast about, but just to negate the propaganda to promote secularism.
Pakistan is underdog for being associated with Islam and there are lots of people around the world and countries who hate Islam and/or Muslims automatically hate Pakistan. But the history of Pakistan cannot be changed for few people's desire to promote secularism.
The GDP per capita for Pakistan is about $2,800 and for India is about $3,700. The % of people living below the poverty line in Pakistan is 22% and India is 30%. So Pakistan is not that much better than India. One cannot make the claim that the average person is living better in Pakistan. If anything, it's a marginal difference. What we do know is that India's future outlook is much better, and it's middle class is much larger. A large part of this is due to the political situation. People want to invest in Pakistan, but are put off by the regime changes, and the property rights laws.
The figures are from the IMF, World Bank, and the CIA Fact Book, which I got from Wiki. If you know a site with similar stats that show otherwise I would be happy to see it.
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
We are going in the slippery slope made by OP. 
The post 28 by Ayyubi shows a graph and Wiki also mentions over 40% (41.6% to be exact) of Indian Population is below poverty line. 22% is above 17% as I mentioned and is indicated by Wiki.
Standard of living in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
" 41.6% of its population is living below the new international poverty line of $1.25 (PPP) per day, down from 59.8% in 1981.[SUP][8]](Standard of living in India - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The World Bank further estimates that a third of the global poor now reside in India."
Without splitting hair I must repeat, the reasons for disparity is not in difference in ‘religious’ or ‘secular’ Govt.
Differences in GDP is marginal considering the lack of resources, infrastructure and even international support for Pakistan.
From very beginning in all fronts India was ahead in all sectors but even then if one looks at the trend in Pakistani economic growth, one has to admit that a country which was predicted to be economic collapse by LIFE magazine in January 1948, Pakistan became an aspiration for the country like S. Korea.
Again, no need to split hair. And no need to have P-contest.
Each country has its unique issues.
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
comparisons are not always made in order to compete but to figure out what it is that we are doing wrong that they are doing right
that said i dont think its a fair comparison....but india has focused on education and healthcare reform...
n it would seem we dont care as much about our country, we are corrupt, we'll go to great lengths to pull each other's leg, and then we sit around and complain about our country without realizing that our country is in the state that it is in because of US
our economy is crippled thanks to this so called war on terror, which is more like war of terror!
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
The figures I listed deal with the country’s poverty line, not the international poverty line.
And the type of government does matter because no one will invest in an unstable and violent regime that will not guarantee the safety of it’s citizens, nor their property rights. We lagged behind after our unstable political system (i.e. Islamist appeasement under Bhutto, culminating in Zia’s coup) crippled our economy. Politics comes first, followed by the economy.
India has a large underclass, as does Pakistan, but it’s middle class will make it a powerhouse, the same cannot be said of Pakistan. Pakistan started with much less, but it also had the advantage of city and economic planning. We started from nothing, which gave us the chance to do it right. Unfortunately, we screwed up along the way.
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
Living conditions should be discussed as they pervail today, right now, as we speak, not what India will be or Pakistan will be in x number of years.
There are many reports/analysis available from different sources - Conditions in India are far worse when compared... From gender inequality, open air toilets, starvation deaths, hunger, poverty you name it, even internet penetration Pakistan has more users (5% more) than India this one was an eye opener for me by Internet World Stats.
The list is endless but as we speak I think this discussion should be put to rest, If one wants to discuss what will happen in x number of years that is a different subject altogether.
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
The figures I listed deal with the country's poverty line, not the international poverty line.
And the type of government does matter because no one will invest in an unstable and violent regime that will not guarantee the safety of it's citizens, nor their property rights. We lagged behind after our unstable political system (i.e. Islamist appeasement under Bhutto, culminating in Zia's coup) crippled our economy. Politics comes first, followed by the economy.
India has a large underclass, as does Pakistan, but it's middle class will make it a powerhouse, the same cannot be said of Pakistan. Pakistan started with much less, but it also had the advantage of city and economic planning. We started from nothing, which gave us the chance to do it right. Unfortunately, we screwed up along the way.
OK. You meant different than what I and Ayyubi posted. Different numbers are available as well. Fine.
I am done with comparison and since it has no value at all, I would tend to ignore it.
Now, the essence of your post is related to violation of rights of the citizens.
Which citizens are you talking about here?
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
Also, India i believe has surged ahead in only the last 20 years, through deregulation.
Pakistan compared rather favorably for the first 45 years of independence. Pakistan has grown in spurts, during the Ayub era, through to the 80's under Zia, and then again under Musharraf. India started growing late but has been more consistent.
Overall, if you compare where Pakistan was when it started out, the circumstances of its birth, the wars, the loss of half the country, to where it is today, its actually not so bad.
Considering the nature of the two societies, feudalism, political instability of Pakistan etc compared to the advantages India had at its birth, better infrastructure, political class that didn't all belong to the feudal class, more educated polity, Pakistan still compares relatively well.
Pakistan has much to do to improve, but its not all gloom. All societies have their problems.
However, India in the 80s had the world's best all-rounder in Kapil Dev - with Imran Khan a distant second.
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
However, India in the 80s had the world's best all-rounder in Kapil Dev - with Imran Khan a distant second.
Second place is better then no place I suppose. :)
Re: In 65 years, India excels Pakistan in many fields
However, India in the 80s had the world's best all-rounder in Kapil Dev - with Imran Khan a distant second.
Hahaha.
You are kidding. Right?