Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
This is all about politics in Punjab where NS has strong hold. IK knows the only way he is ever going to become PM 1st he has do undermine NS in Punjab. Btw, this was never about rigged elections b/c elections are rigged to some extent even in western countries like the USA.
America’s most gerrymandered congressional districts - The Washington Post
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
jeetegaa bhai, Imran jeetegaa!
Immi bhai pag-DanDiyoN se hote huye shaah-rah par aayeNge, iA. aur phir Islamabad door na baashad! :)
I have never heard Imran saying that he wants to win, lose or become Prime Minister ... other than what all party leaders say, hope and believe.
What Imran said is that he (and rest of Pakistan) believes that last election was rigged, and so was most past elections. So, to win or lose election in Pakistan is nothing to do with votes, but it is to do with ability to rig the election. Whoever can do bigger and better dhandli wins. So, in such environment, election is meaningless and it is also taking part in election is meaningless.
Thus, Imran is demanding auditing of the last election, If election is found massively rigged, than election should be declared null and void, and exemplary punishment is given to those who were instrument in rigging, as these people are criminals who robbed the people of their right to give mandate to whoever they want (through votes).
A rigged election do not mean right of parties taking part in election is violated, but it means, violation of people's right to give mandate to who they want, and this way, whole nation got cheated and their right violated. Cheating the people in such way is national crime, and those who rigged the election should be given punishment that is given for treason. Once that would happen then no one would dare to rig the election.
Plus, what Imran is asking that next election should be held in such a way that no one can say that it was rigged, and that is, after all the steps taken that should be taken to make election free and fair. After that, whoever wins the election, be that thug Nawaz, Dacu Zardari, Imran or anyone, they could legitimately rule the country, as result of free and fair election would legitimize the government. That is all.
I do not see any reason to believe that what Imran is asking/demanding, Imran is wrong, rather, what Imran is asking, should be demand of all Pakistanis, as it is their voting right to chose who they want as their representative got stolen by those who rigged the election, making their votes meaningless.
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
true but awareness instilled into awaam by IK will not allow this to happen in the next elections [mid-term]...after that a thorough overhauling of the election system has to be done. iA
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
I have never heard Imran saying that he wants to win, lose or become Prime Minister ... other than what all party leaders say, hope and believe.
Wut r u talking about? Not sure how much you were following but even in dharna he said it many times one of which i remembered was something like "aapke samne aapka wazeer-e-azam khara hai..". Not sure if you ignored it as a slip of tongue like many..
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
Waste of time.
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
Wut r u talking about? Not sure how much you were following but even in dharna he said it many times one of which i remembered was something like "aapke samne aapka wazeer-e-azam khara hai..". Not sure if you ignored it as a slip of tongue like many..
vo to shaadii ke liye bhii kahaa thaa...yeh az reh-e-mizaaH hii kahaa hogaa! :)
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
Wut r u talking about? Not sure how much you were following but even in dharna he said it many times one of which i remembered was something like "aapke samne aapka wazeer-e-azam khara hai..". Not sure if you ignored it as a slip of tongue like many..
Even though you quoted the post, I think you missed what i wrote. Now I wonder, if you read complete post or not. :).
I have never heard Imran saying that he wants to win, lose or become Prime Minister ... other than what all party leaders say, hope and believe.
From above it is obvious that as any politician addressing the nation, they would say what you wrote, promoting oneself.
But when it comes to asking for auditing the election, he never said that regardless of auditing he is the winner and he should be Prime Minister. Imran has said many times that if auditing would clear the election from rigging, than he (Imran) would accept NS as Prime Minister.
Actually, after the election, he did acknowledged NS as PM who won the election, as he thought that Thug has won the election free and fair. But when reports of massive rigging started coming to him from various sources, and all parties, including media and people in general, started confirming that the election was massively rigged, it was obvious that he or any honest person should have rejected the result and protested, that is what he did.
Even in cricket, Imran was the first voice who demanded neutral umpires for fair umpiring and was also one who supported the idea of requesting review by teams playing about the umpire decision on ground, and 3rd umpire, so that game becomes fair and without biases of home country umpires.
So, I have to say again, that is, what Imran is demanding is right. What Thug is doing is wrong, as Thug is ignoring all justified protest and justified demand of Imran. Obviously, with time, if ignored continuously as Thug is doing, Imran would have raised the stake as he has done. With rise in stake, eventual confrontation was expected, that is also in sight long time ago.
Due to that confrontation, if armed civil war starts or army takes over, fault would lie on Thug Nawaz and his government, because what Imran is demanding is justified. Imran has tried all means to get the justice for himself as well as for Pakistani voters. What Thug Nawaz and his government is doing, by their action and attitude, telling Imran and whole of Pakistani Nation (voters whose right to vote whom they like is stolen) that do what you all would like to do, I the 'Thug of Raiwand' would rule and do not care if I got the power through Dhandli (rigging).
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
true but awareness instilled into awaam by IK will not allow this to happen in the next elections [mid-term]...after that a thorough overhauling of the election system has to be done. iA
Thugs in politics do not care for awam neither talk sense. Just imagine, saying that their judge is awam (voters), but then voters do not know what they are doing in office and where they got their wealth, how much corruption and nepotism they are doing, and so on ... rather they do not even know what wealth these corrupt thugs accumulated while in office.
Same way, no one can tell that when a ballot box is opened and votes got counted, who really won, as no one can tell who voted whom. These political thugs have invisible hands (from bureaucracy, employee and top men in election commissions, judges, police, etc as their paid servants)... and these paid servants work from stuffing ballot boxes to wrongly counting the votes and declaring candidate who won the election (even when candidate may have lost by 10s of thousand votes).
Thus, rigging is impossible for voters to find, but even if they find it out than also what voters can do other than protest, and even that protest needs a leader to lead them in protest, and that is what Imran is doing today.
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
Guys....just so that you know. I have deleted all those posts which were posted as simple cute & paste with no context provided by the poster. You have to provide your own views before posting an article, tweet or any link. I have given enough warnings on this topic before. Also, kindly don't use abusive or insulting language towards the party leadership. and yes Ilzam khan, ganja/khabees/baisharam nawaz, chor/daku zardari etc are all provoking words and will not be tolerated. Thx
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
so PPP used to tell its opponents:
Tum Kitnay Bhutto Maro Gay? Har ghar say Bhutto Niklay ga!
Now PTI is telling to PMLN
Tum Kitnay plans Maro Gay? Har ghar say plan Niklay ga!
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
^^^ jinhon nay hamay luta, thagga, hamari ghar may dakati kee, hamaray paisay say sar kay baal ugayea, ham say khula jhoot bola, hamarie izzat duniya kay bazaroon may lutatay rahay, unhay hum choor, dacu, Thug, besharm yea ganja bhie na kahyain?
You know what, last year (for FY 2013-14) I paid around Rs 300000 direct tax to Pakistan government (not sales tax or other indirect tax) ... and I think I have right to call those who stole my tax money whatever name I like.
If they want to be in politics or be a public figure, than they should be ready to listen what voters or public call them. That is democracy and it is fair too. If they do not want to listen what public think of them, then they should leave politics as well as public life.
Same is for their supporters, who want to see them in politics and be a public figure. If their supporters do not like it, than they should tell who they support to stop being in politics and public figure. They should know that public figures are property of public, not an individual with life of his own, as they play with public funds, rights and lives.
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
^^^ jinhon nay hamay luta, thagga, hamari ghar may dakati kee, hamaray paisay say sar kay baal ugayea, ham say khula jhoot bola, hamarie izzat duniya kay bazaroon may lutatay rahay, unhay hum choor, dacu, Thug, besharm yea ganja bhie na kahyain?
You know what, last year (for FY 2013-14) I paid around Rs 300000 direct tax to Pakistan government (not sales tax or other indirect tax) ... and I think I have right to call those who stole my tax money whatever name I like.
If they want to be in politics or be a public figure, than they should be ready to listen what voters or public call them. That is democracy and it is fair too. If they do not want to listen what public think of them, then they should leave politics as well as public life.
Same is for their supporters, who want to see them in politics and be a public figure. If their supporters do not like it, than they should tell who they support to stop being in politics and public figure. They should know that public figures are property of public, not an individual with life of his own, as they play with public funds, rights and lives.
Baja arshad farmaya sarkar aap nay....please feel free to criticize them as much as you want ....no one will stop you but no need to call names.** This is not my personal preference or a personal demand . This is what GS charter says.**
Plus once you start personal attacks on the leadership, sooner or later there will be be retaliation from the other side and then the whole thread goes into there gutter.
again criticize the leadership or a party as much as you want in a civilized way but no perrosnal attacks with specific names. That is all. thx
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
..... Also, kindly don't use abusive or insulting language towards the party leadership. and yes Ilzam khan, ganja/khabees/baisharam nawaz, chor/daku zardari etc are all provoking words and will not be tolerated. Thx.......
Is there a list of acceptable adjectives?
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
Baja arshad farmaya sarkar aap nay....please feel free to criticize them as much as you want ....no one will stop you but no need to call names.** This is not my personal preference or a personal demand . This is what GS charter says.**
Plus once you start personal attacks on the leadership, sooner or later there will be be retaliation from the other side and then the whole thread goes into there gutter.
again criticize the leadership or a party as much as you want in a civilized way but no perrosnal attacks with specific names. That is all. thx
Brother, what I understand is that Gupshup charter says not to get personal or attack person of other posters, as all have their opinions, and obviously, attacking person of a poster by calling names would be wrong.
As for Politicians, and other public figures, they are there on votes from public. They are servants of public. They get wages from public funds and expect to serve and safeguard public interest. When they do good for people, people love them and appreciate their works. But when they loot, plunder, cheat, lie, do nepotism, misuse power entrusted to them, and so on, than how can anyone expect that public would not complain and call them by names what they are?
Only dictators (leaving some Pakistani dictators like Musharraf), stop people saying anything bad about them and suppress people expressing what people feel about them, but this do not happen in democracy.
It is surprising that we talk about democracy, but try to behave or run things like dictators. Though I do not believe it is true for this forum, but are you trying to say that this forum believes that Pakistan has dictatorship and this forum should represent and promote that dictatorship?
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
Even though Pakistani laws on defamation is toothless, let me give you defamation laws in USA and western world of democracy.
This is to prove that defamation law against a public figure is different than what it is for private citizen who is not public figure. For public figure, other than the person proving defamation, he has to prove malice (non-public figure do not have to prove malice). Since Malice is such difficult thing to prove in court, in effect, public figures cannot even think of making defamation charges against anyone. Here are defamation law:
What is “actual malice” in defamation law? | Rottenstein Law Group LLP
What is “actual malice” in defamation law?
In personal injury law, defamation occurs when someone publishes a false statement that ends up harming the injured person’s reputation, resulting in damages. To prove that defamation occurred, theplaintiff in a defamation case must prove all of the following:
Injured plaintiffs who are private citizens only have to prove the four elements listed above. An injured plaintiff who is a “public figure,” however, has to prove these four elements plus one more: that the defendant published the statement with “actual malice.
Cases involving libeledit]**
An early example of libel would be the case of John Peter Zenger in 1735. Zenger was hired to publish New York Weekly Journal. When he printed another man’s article that criticized William Cosby, who was then British Royal Governor ofColonial New York, Zenger was accused of Seditious Libel.[SUP][9]](Defamation - Wikipedia)[/SUP] The verdict was returned as Not Guilty on the charge of seditious libel, having proved that all the statements Zenger had published about Cosby had been true, so there was not an issue of defamation. Another example of libel would be the case of New York Times Co. v. Sullivan (1964). The (Supreme Court of the United States - Wikipedia) overruled a State court in Alabama that had found The New York Times guilty of libel for printing an advertisement that criticized Alabama officials for mistreating student civil rights activists. Even though some of what The Times printed was false, the Court ruled in its favor, saying that libel of a public official requires proof of Actual Malice, which was defined as a “knowing or reckless disregard for the truth”.[SUP][10]](Defamation - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
Proving libeledit]
There are several ways a person must go about proving that libel has taken place. For example, in the United States, the person must prove that the statement was false, caused harm, and was made without adequate research into the truthfulness of the statement. These steps are for an ordinary citizen. For a celebrity or a public official, the person must prove the first three steps and that the statement was made with the intent to do harm or with reckless disregard for the truth,[SUP][11]](Defamation - Wikipedia)[/SUP] which is usually specifically referred to as “proving malice”.[SUP][12]](Defamation - Wikipedia)[/SUP]
… … …
All above shows that defamation of an individual (private citizen) has different and stringent law than defamation law for public figures.
In all cases, defamation of a public figure is not charged if defamation occurred but there was no malice.
For instance: if I call someone (a private citizen who is not public figure) a Thug that can be proven, as it was printed or there are witnesses, and if that person is not thug that he can prove, than I am defaming that person and can be charged of defamation.
On the other hand, if that person is not a private citizen but public figure or government official than to call him thug (supposing that he is not ), and there is proof that I called him thug, still I would not be guilty of defamation unless that public figure can prove that I called him with malice
[Malice is desire to harm the person one is defaming … or defaming that person with wrong intention … and since desire or intention is almost impossible to prove in court, malice is almost impossible to prove, so no defamation charge can be made for defaming a public figure].
So when a person calls Nawaz as Thug or liar … and Zardari as dacu … than that is not even false accusations, and thus no defamation happened, but even if they were Angels (innocent of what they are called), then also, since they are public figures, one calling them thug, liar or dacu would be wrong, still it would be impossible to prove that one has called them these names with malice, hence no defamation has happened … because they are public figures.
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
Brother, what I understand is that Gupshup charter says not to get personal or attack person of other posters, as all have their opinions, and obviously, attacking person of a poster by calling names would be wrong.
As for Politicians, and other public figures, they are there on votes from public. They are servants of public. They get wages from public funds and expect to serve and safeguard public interest. When they do good for people, people love them and appreciate their works. But when they loot, plunder, cheat, lie, do nepotism, misuse power entrusted to them, and so on, than how can anyone expect that public would not complain and call them by names what they are?
Only dictators (leaving some Pakistani dictators like Musharraf), stop people saying anything bad about them and suppress people expressing what people feel about them, but this do not happen in democracy.
It is surprising that we talk about democracy, but try to behave or run things like dictators. Though I do not believe it is true for this forum, but are you trying to say that this forum believes that Pakistan has dictatorship and this forum should represent and promote that dictatorship?
Please go back and read my post again brother. No where i said that you cannot criticize the leaderships and/or its policies...please do it as much as you want but in a civilized way. There is absolutely no dictatorship on this forum. Say whatever you want to say against any party or leader. No one will stop you.
All i am requesting is not to use harsh adjectives addressing specific leaders in a certain way as it alienates other posters. For example, criticize nawaz sharif and PMLN for their policies as much as you want but calling him khabees or ganja every-time you take his name is not acceptable. Criticize Imran khan or PTI but calling him rhondu khan, Ilzam khan or Najaiz khan is not acceptable. Criticize PPP or zardari for their financial corruption as much as you want but addressing zardari as daku zardari, dacoit zardari every time you take his name is not acceptable. That is all. I dont think I am asking for much.
I have made my point clear. Using vulgar language is not a good practice anyway brother and i am sure GS charter does not allow you to use vulgar language against public leader either. Many thx
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
Please go back and read my post again brother. No where i said that you cannot criticize the leaderships and/or its policies...please do it as much as you want but in a civilized way. There is absolutely no dictatorship on this forum. Say whatever you want to say against any party or leader. No one will stop you.
All i am requesting is not to use harsh adjectives addressing specific leaders in a certain way as it alienates other posters. For example, criticize nawaz sharif and PMLN for their policies as much as you want but calling him khabees or ganja every-time you take his name is not acceptable. Criticize Imran khan or PTI but calling him rhondu khan, Ilzam khan or Najaiz khan is not acceptable. Criticize PPP or zardari for their financial corruption as much as you want but addressing zardari as daku zardari, dacoit zardari every time you take his name is not acceptable. That is all. I dont think I am asking for much.
I have made my point clear. Using vulgar language is not a good practice anyway brother and i am sure GS charter does not allow you to use vulgar language against public leader either. Many thx
Brother, so you want us to say thing in way:
His Royal Highness Mohtram Ali-jah Zil-e-ilahi Janab Nawaz Shareef Saheb jhoot boltay hain aur commission bhie kha lay-tay hain. Yea baray 'K ... err Kamal' qism kee shakseeyat kay malik hain, jin ke misal duniya may nahi. Aap kay muhtram bradar-e-haqeeqi Wazeer-a-Aala-e-Punjab Groor-e-Lahore aur Raiwand kee jaan Shahbaz Shareef Saheb bohut 'k ... err dur-andesh' admi hain, aur iss dur-andeshi ka sila hay kay unho nay TUQ saheb kay bohut say karkuno ko jannat-ul-firdos bhaijwa diya iss liya kay unhay Khaof tha kay yae loog unhay aur unka muhtram Baray Bhai jaan ko nuqsaan na pohncha dayn.
Issi tarah, Alle-Muqam Sabiq Sadar-e-Pakistan Muhtram Zardari Saheb hukumat kar rahay thay tou unhon nay Supreme Court ka hukum nahi mana aur luti huie raqam jisay unho na ba-hafazat Switzerland may rakha hua tha, bari chabukdasti aur khuda-dad hikmat-e-amli say bacha liya.
hmmm ... so, I have criticized all 3, but with nice words. OK? :)
Agar may iss ko norm bana loon tou phir jab may iblees kay baray may kuch likhon ga tou ayesay likhon ga ...
Alim-e-Zamana, Sardar-e-Farishta, ale-muqam Muhtram-o-Muazzam Iblees Saheb nay jab Allah-Tala ka hukum Sejdah-e-Adam nahi mana aur aap nay garoor kiya, tou Allah nay aap ko apnay darbar say nikal diya aur aap kee famayesh per ajazat day dee kay aap insaano ko gumrah kar sakain.
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
Brother, so you want us to say thing in way:
His Royal Highness Mohtram Ali-jah Zil-e-ilahi Janab Nawaz Shareef Saheb jhoot boltay hain aur commission bhie kha lay-tay hain. Yea baray 'K ... err Kamal' qism kee shakseeyat kay malik hain, jin ke misal duniya may nahi. Aap kay muhtram bradar-e-haqeeqi Wazeer-a-Aala-e-Punjab Groor-e-Lahore aur Raiwand kee jaan Shahbaz Shareef Saheb bohut 'k ... err dur-andesh' admi hain, aur iss dur-andeshi ka sila hay kay unho nay TUQ saheb kay bohut say karkuno ko jannat-ul-firdos bhaijwa diya iss liya kay unhay Khaof tha kay yae loog unhay aur unka muhtram Baray Bhai jaan ko nuqsaan na pohncha dayn.
Issi tarah, Alle-Muqam Sabiq Sadar-e-Pakistan Muhtram Zardari Saheb hukumat kar rahay thay tou unhon nay Supreme Court ka hukum nahi mana aur luti huie raqam jisay unho na ba-hafazat Switzerland may rakha hua tha, bari chabukdasti aur khuda-dad hikmat-e-amli say bacha liya.
hmmm ... so, I have criticized all 3, but with nice words. OK? :)
wah wah..maza aa gaya urdu parh kar. Alle-muqam zile ilahi, dur-andesh :D
app kee choice hai....if your urdu is so nice and you want to impress us with it, you are free to use the same pattern...;)
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
16.12.1971 = 28 Shawwal 1391 A.H. 16.12.2014 = 24 Safar 1436 A.H
No issues with that date in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.
16 Decemeber 1971, was the day in the history of Pakistan when Eastern Wing of Pakistan was torn apart and new Pakistan was formed... now IK is doing the same.. and selecting the same date again... yes it is bad choice... 1st he selected the undisputed independence day of Pakistan for his drama... and now he have taken up 16 december for his another drama...
when Shk Rasheed and gaddi nasheen and mazaries are your advisers... 16 december is bound to repeat..
Re: Imran to unveil ‘plan C’ today
So imran thinks he can closed Karachi :D . Pity as in last election Karachittes voted for PTI to get rid of such stupid acts ... and here he is playing the same tune ...
what is the difference between him and Altaf , MQM and PTI ? Zilch !