Imran, bringing change in public and elite

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
101

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

PMLN mostly win in KP in Hazara areas. And PPP wins in Punjab in mostly Seraiki areas.

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these parties though corrupt and utterly failed, do not play the divisive politics of ethnicity at the level that MQM does.
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They do play ethnic politics. See Nawaz's slogan of jaag Punjabi jaag, and PPP's ethnic Sindhi politics in Sindh.

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Though PTI has not made it's presence felt in the assembly despite having many chances to be in power, they have much more goodwill and a much greater support across the ethnic lines.
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PTI's support will be among Taliban apologists in Pakistan, and some who are fed up with PMLN in Punjab.

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As per a 2009 IRI poll, Imran Khan and PTI were the third most political party party in Pakistan, miles ahead of MQM. Please refer to that poll in order to educate yourself. That was 2009 -- and now they are easily a major political force.
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Educate myself? When did I say anything about popularities in the first place?
You are arguing standing in front of the mirror. Like our moderator says, don't make a fool of yourself.

Racist Imran in the beginning would not even acknowledge that Taliban were blowing up schools. He called it government propaganda.
He is only good at criticizing others. This is what wins him naive people. But he is incapable of giving solutions to the problems. And only solutions he has proposed would be disastrous for Pakistan.

102

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

^^ While you may be assuming that MQM alone is involved in target killings, it's indisputable that they're at least a participant if not the instigator, and PTI stands against all those forces who're involved.

As far as his taliban-stance is concerned, he is pro-negotiation because he is a peaceful, anti-war leader who wants Pakistan to focus on development rather than fight wars while keeping it's population impoverished while the military takes away all te resources. He is a real liberal, because he is non-violent and supports non-violence.

I think you have to quit making a fool of yourself by arguing fallaciously -- PTI is a no-brainer courtesy the projects in education, healthcare and flood-relief that they have involved themselves in without any government support or help from the agencies. I'll take them any day over a criminal organization like MQM with political ambitions. They came to power based on a politics of ethnic hatred, and that's a baggage they can never get rid of.

103

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

It is not "indisputable" that MQM is involved. Some urdu speakers have been caught, but not every Urdu speaker or supporter belongs to MQM. It is not proven that it is MQM's policy to kill the opponents.
Secondly, if people vote Imran only because he is against MQM then it exposes all such people as racist.
But I know most supporting Imran are not racists, hence your bringing Imran's stance against MQM does not make sense.

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As far as his taliban-stance is concerned, he is pro-negotiation because he is a peaceful, anti-war leader
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Oh really? You guys are willing to make peace with Pakistan's enemies? With criminals? With terrorists? With fasadi anti-Islam extremists? With sectarian target killers?

What will this "anti-war peaceful" leader do if negotiations with Taliban fail?
Will he not try to stop their war against Pakistan?

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who wants Pakistan to focus on development
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There can be no development unless the menace of terrorism and extremism is resolved and security in the country restored.
But Imran wants to work with the same people who are the cause of terrorism and extremism.

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He is a real liberal
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In reality, he is in cahoots with extremist right wingers.

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I'll take them any day over a criminal organization like MQM
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You won't support MQM because you think they are criminal, yet would wholeheartedly support the racist Taliban (criminal) apologizer, who are against Pakistan, have killed thousands of Pakistanis, and are an insult to Islam.
It just exposes racist in you again.

104

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

Racist Imran the Taliban. Endorsement from fasadi kharijis in Swat tells a lot about “cordial” relations they have with Imran for being their unofficial spokesman. Remember that Taliban preferred Imran even over extremists like Jamaate Islami and JUI.

There should be no negotiations with Taliban unless they first give up their arms.

PESHAWAR: The Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan Swat chapter has expressed its confidence on the mediation of Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaaf (PTI) chief Imran Khan in restoring peace in Malakand Division.

The TTP Malakand has announced this in an audio message delivered to senior journalist and analyst Rahimullah Yousufzai.

The message has been recorded in the voice of a TTP commander Nooruddin Muhammad. In his message, he described Imran Khan as a patriot, sincere Pakistani, good person and Muslim-friendly politicians.

105

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

You're officially trolling now.

While the criminal history of MQM is recognized, known to and accepted by all, it only takes the organization you support to a new low when it's supporters call a person who is involved in so many public service projects and who wants to negotiate a peaceful end to a war a "racist", a "taliban supporter". By the same coin, the british government who negotiated with the IRA were IRA-terrorists. Conflicts worldwide are resolved via dialogue and negitation, it's the manner in which civilized societies behave.

It's not surprising, given the violent history of the organization you support, that you want all scores to be settled by the bullet, just like it is in Karachi.

It's futile to argue with a person as bigoted as yourself, I will not resort to lame link wars as the content on the activities of MQM (which is opposed purely because of its criminal angle as well as stirring ethnic hatred) and which clarifies Imran's views on negotiation is a simple google search away.

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Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

Well, this thread is about Imran, and I am explaining why he is unsuitable for getting votes of Pakistani people. He is a racist who is full of ego, and combination of these makes him support the enemies of Pakistan and Islam.

As far as negotiations with terrorists, he is not the first one to suggest it. Difference is that others want to negotiate AFTER Taliban give up arms while Imran has no such restrictions for talking with them.

What I have been saying is that MQM is not the issue here. It is people like you who bring MQM in every argument.
And I am saying that if anyone supports Imran ONLY because he is against MQM then such a person is a racist bigot.

107

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

I admire your audacity to go back and edit your posts to modify your stances when you're verbally obliterated in an argument. Now you've edited your posts to say that you want negotiations when they give up arms. Will they do that voluntarily? I doubt that. More likely, there have to be some initial rounds of negotiation in order to get them to that position, and if you have credible leadership that has confidence and support of the masses, the outcome is likely to be positive. These are the basics in public diplomacy, I suggest that you should educate yourself before ranting about racists and what not. All this talk about racism and supporting violence sounds very hollow coming from an MQM supporter, an organization that excels in using these two tactics to gain political traction.

108

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

Even Musharraf (Jan 2011) admires Imran Khan and thinks that he has the most integrity among Pakistani politicians. Atleast Mush has the courage to say something good about his fierce opponent, a man who has criticized him the most in the past

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Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

Musharraf put together an A-list team when he came to power -- the first few years he did a tremendously good job despite the war on terror and what not. He offered IK/PTI to join him, which I believe was a missed opportunity as far as PTI is concerned because generally Musharraf had good intentions (initially) but got mired in power politics later on and screwed up in an epic way.

110

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

"Obliterated"? In your dreams. I edit my post as the thoughts develop, or sometimes to make a point clearer.

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Will they do that voluntarily? I doubt that. More likely, there have to be some initial rounds of negotiation in order to get them to that position, and if you have credible leadership that has confidence and support of the masses, the outcome is likely to be positive.
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You mean they will be willing to give up arms? That's just your own wishful thinking. And since this thread is about Imran and not about you, I would ask to quote Imran saying that he would ask them to give up arms.
Second question is that if after Imran's "sincere" attempts to negotiate fail, what would he do?
Can you show any of his statement where he describes what will he be doing in that case? Will he return to fight these enemies of Pakistan and Islam, or will he continue to be a "peaceful anti-war" little birdie?

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All this talk about racism and supporting violence sounds very hollow coming from an MQM supporter, an organization that excels in using these two tactics to gain political traction.
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To call everyone who supports MQM a racist is effectively saying that majority of Urdu speakers are racists. Such a statement exposes the racist out of people who make such statements.

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Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

Yeah, even Musharraf the Devil admires Imran. Is this what you are saying?
Maudoodi had integrity too. So did Mullah Umar and Osama bin Laden. Will you support such people just because they were not corrupt and have integrity?

This argument does not make sense at all.

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Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

Maudoodi yes although I am opposed to religious parties being in politics. That is not their place. And I cannot condone Maudoodi or his party's malicious campaign against Fatima Jinnah during her presidential race vs Ayub

And you must be joking. Killers (Mullah Omar, OBL) never have integrity and equating Imran with them just highlights your irrational hatred and jealousy of Imran Khan

113

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

Mush was famous for his drinking and womanizing so he wanted a
Team. Team like him.
Kunand hamjins ba ham jins parwaz
Kabooter ba kabooter Baz bah Baz
کنند ہمجنس با ہمجنس پرواز
کبوتر با کبوتر بازبا باز

114

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

You are saying as if ZAB and other PPP leaders of the time notably Ghulam Mustafa Khar and Hafeez Pirzada etc. were not not rangeen mizaaj themselves. Khar was a chutta hua badmaash

I did not want to stoop to your level but since you started it many people in Pakistan believe that ZAB was born out of wedlock. Disprove that first..

115

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

Interesting. Never knew that.

116

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

No need to disprove. That was proven legal.
You said right about Khar. I agree.
Rangeem Mizaj hona aik alag bat hay aur ..........
There is a link about images in previous pages where you can see an old clip from Nawaiay Waqt. Just see that.
We have passed our life seeing Yahya and Mush.
Present ruling elite is too below standard.
Should we die seeing these third class .........
everywhere.

117

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

So is what I said above true that Imran Khan supports Taliban and is Anti-American or am I just being ignorant?

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Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

How do you think he is "supporting" Taliban? and how he is "Anti-American"?

119

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

^ well being anti american by itself i dont think qualifies as a negative point!

being a pakistani we should be more pro pakistan, the rest comes afterwards!

120

Re: Imran, bringing change in public and elite

I guess it is a compliment, since considering you are a supporter of a party that had leaders (one former) drink publicly in gatherings.

And how is imran a liberal? I have seen him on tv "lamenting" the brown sahibs and supposedly his elite past.