Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
From where did you copy paste ?
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
I am very proud to be Kaffir :)
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
If Holy Prophet (Saw) didnt bring justice in the world with his 23 yrs of nabowwet what makes you think Imam Mehdi can do in 7 days. There must be deeper meaning than taking everything litraly.
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
Beause Prophet Mohammad said he would? For me that is enough. I don’t need to get into WHYs and HOWs, you are good at that.
So, Hazrat Ali and all the other imams that shias have were appointed by Allah? 
I guess, Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Umer really tricked Allah there… *:halo: (astaqfirullah)
*For you to be an IMAM you need sometype of government… some landmass and people to rule over. By definition, Imam mahdi is not even an imam yet (other than Hazrat Ali, who had government, etc.?). Why? Well for starters, 1.) you need to be ALIVE in order to rule, etc. 2.) You need a government, 3.) According to hadiths, he will rule from Makkah and Madina, not kufa or Karbala or tehran or from some cave.
Why are we comparing *Imam *Mahdi who is not even alive/born yet with those that passed away even before the advent of Quran? Ashaab-e-kehf were mentioned in quran, their story has lessons for us… There is nothing in Quran that suggests or even mentions anything regarding Imam Mahdi. Is Shia argument so weak on this that they need to get hold on Hazrat Isa at some point and then Ashaab-e-kehf in order to make sense out of their fantasy that Imam mahdi is alive and kicking in some cave?
Since, you are putting Ashaab-e-kehf and imam mahdi along with Hazrat Isa in same basket, as if they are related… why isn’t Imam mahdi mentioned in the Quran? And let us not confuse ourselves over the fact that Ashaab-e-kehf have nothing to do with Imam mahdi just because they were in the cave…:halo:
Hazrat Mariam was not a Prophet but her circumstance is different than anybody else that ever lived or will live on this planet.
Dude, you are killing me. Stick to your point… Is Imam mahdi an ordinary man? If he is, then he cannot be alive in some cave for centuries… impossible. As far as leading Hazrat Isa in prayers is concerned… Prophet Mohammad said “the Mahdi will lead Isa in prayers…” so he will. End of discussion.
We all believe that he will come because it is mentioned in the hadith. No where in the hadith does it say that he is alive and well in some cave… that is the crux of the problem. The fantasy that causes problems other than that there isn’t much disagreement about him.
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
Guys! cut it out.
When Imam Mahdi:razi: will come, I am sure both Shia and Sunni will follow his as I did not find any hadeeth saying that Muslims will be against him (I do consider both Shia and Sunni as Muslims) …
Can we just put aside some of the articles of faith, which we consider part of our Iman, for a moment and try to ponder few things.
-Sunni believe that Imam Mahdi will be from the progeny of Muhammad:saw:
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For Shia ^ ditto
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Sunni believe that he will be hiding in Masjid ul Haraam and Ahlullah will recognize him
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For Shia ^ ditto about hiding
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Sunni believe that he will be the Mujaddid-e-Aakhir and Mujaddid-e-Kaamil, a person who will be followed by ALL muslims (Imam)
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For Shia ^ ditto that except they call him Imam-e-Aakhir and Imam-e-Kaamil.
I do not see any difference in the core beliefs about him.
Let’s stop this now.
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Anwar quraishi i think you forgot to look deeper in ahadith... Its mentioned that the Ulema of the time will be spreading hate among the muslims so ultimately they are gonna be the enemy of Imam Mehdi and many Muslim Scholars in past have dicated this in there writings.
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
According to 'Islamic tradition" Imam Mehdi WILL bring justice. But that is just what Islam says, I am not sure about other religions and neither do we care what others have to say about Islam.
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Ripper its a common sense thing, may be 7 days have significant amount of time. Like Allah created the world in 7 days. And those 7 days were longer than many years.
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
insha ji: yes I have access to hadeeth which talk about Muslims within will send an army against him but that army will be burried alive before it would reach him. In fact, I have posted a hadeeth in my very first post which is evident of the fact that how there will be a civil was amng muslims themselves…
My point was that both shia and sunni believe the similar characteristics of Mahdi:razi: … it’s just that we fail to accept each other’s ‘terminologies’ …
PS: and no, Allah did not create the universe in 7 days… Quran tells us it is 6 days.
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
Well, for shias he will dig the graves of Sahaba and punish them.
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
kuch naheeN ho sakta :)
laggay raho.
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
Bhai jan jab loug hum ko ye sunaatey haiN to batana perta hai
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
Amazing, the ignorance. Why wouldn't he dig up graves of the likes of Khoemeni and others that perpetuated lies agains those who gave up everything they had for Islam?
At least you admit, that he will dig up graves of SAHABA and I hope you know what is the status of a SAHABI. The sahaba are so bad, Allah let them be buried next to the grave of his most beloved and last prophet. hehe
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
Good to know that a Prophet foretells about an Imam a.s. and it is incumbent upon every muslim to believe in him a.s. although there is no mention of the Imam a.s. in the Holy Quran. Cool
Yes, the three Caliphs were not Imams/Caliphs for us. But sorry, it would be preposterous to conclude that they tricked Allah by ‘claiming’ the Caliphate for themselves. Did Mirza Ghulam Ahmed trick Allah my claiming himself as the Imam or Prophet or whatever?
What? Firstly Imams are ‘guides’ for the people. They dont care about the their followings. In short, the number of follower is not the criterion for the designation of Imam.
As I said an Imam does not necessarily have to have a ‘government’ of some sort.
Yeh of course.
Nopes. You dont. By the way what government will Imam Mehdi a.s. have?
Imam Mehdi is not ‘hiding’ in a cave. He is not a coward crying in a cave fearing his enemies would hunt him down and slaughter him a.s. He was last seen in that place and since then noone has seen him a.s.
We accentuated on the Ashaah-e-Khef story to make it clear to you that occulation is not a new phenomenon in Islam and Allah can communicate with people other than Prophets a.s. Examples would be Ashaab-e-Khef and bibi Mariam s.a. Yeh true there is nothing ‘explicit’ of Imam Mehdi a.s. mentioned in the Quran. Yet it is incumbent upon muslims to believe in Imam Mehdi according to the hadiths of the Holy Prophet(saw), is it not? We have enough hadiths that mention that Imam Mehdi a.s. is in occultation with the infinite Power of Allah, as He has protected His previous servants such as Ashaab-e-Khef and His Prophet Isa a.s.
soooo monotonous
right, so circumstances determine the actions of Allah. The situation of Imam Mehdi required that Allah protect him a.s. and prolong his life like that of haz Isa a.s.
Imam Mehdi a.s. is appointed by Allah and like Prophet Isa a.s. has been protected by Allah. That is my point.
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
Where is it mentioned that he will bring justice in such a short time?
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Jaan Leva
Note that your initial objection was
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It is illogical for someone to get “enjoy” sustenance while a Muslim Ummah suffers.
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Anyone who recieves such sustenance/has communication with God must be a Prophet.
The arguments quoted for you are called counter examples. The idea behind these counter examples is to give precendence for an occurrence that you explicitly stated it would be illogical for God to bring about. That does not mean that they examples must share the same middle name and have similar shaped noses. You are adding qualifiers, and ridiculous ones at that, after the fact.
Whether or not Imam Mehdi has been born has nothing to do with the supposed illogicality that you set out to show. That he isnt born is Sunni belief and has no relevance to the logicality of a shia belief.
So is this now the new criterion for logical correctness, that anyone who recieves sustenance from God must always be mentioned in the Quran?
No, that was the shia counter argument to your attempt at a logical argument. I said before, nobody here has tried to “prove” anything, merely a rebuttal of your attempts to “disprove” a belief through logic.
So your “logical” argument is now that anyone recieving sustenance from God must always be mentioned in the Quran? Pray from where did you derive this golden rule, and do you stand corrected from your initial arguments that one has to be a Prophet to recieve sustenance, and it is illogical for God to give sustenance to someone while the Muslim Ummah suffers?
On what basis do you say that. Quranic basis, remember, not stuff you pull out of nowhere.
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
Whether or not Imam Mehdi has been born has nothing to do with the supposed illogicality that you set out to show. That he isnt born is Sunni belief and has no relevance to the logicality of a shia belief.
Soo, he is **not **alive, **not **born and **not **in some cave? Right?
[QUOTE]
So is this now the new criterion for logical correctness, that anyone who recieves sustenance from God must always be mentioned in the Quran?
[/QUOTE]
I am using the same logic that you use to COMPARE Imam Mahdi with Isa and Mariam and People of Kehf.
-People of Kehf recieved sustenance from God, they are mentioned in Quran.
-Mariam received sustenance* (during the time when she was under th care of Prophet Yahya and when she gave birth)* from God, she is mentioned in Quran.
-Isa received sustenance from God, he is mentioned in Quran.
Is Mahdi mentioned in Quran? There is no reference. Hence, you should not be comparing him with those that DID receive sustenance from God and ARE mentioned in the Quran. It is insane to say that since people of Kehf, mariem and Isa did, it only means that Mahdi does/will/would as well.
We have only HADITHS to REFER to when it comes to the coming of Imam Mahdi so why are we taking HADITHS and then judging them AGAINST the word of Quran and personalities mentioned there in?
Again, the fact of the matter is that Imam mahdi is not alive, is not born yet. And when he does come, Allah can choose to do whatever he wishes.
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
o boy :D
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
I read it in this thread some where that he will bring justice in 7 days..
Or qureshi sahib i ment to say 6 days but its all good. The point was 7 days or 6 days. It has to be a longer period of time. Can not be right away.
Re: Imam Mahdi Introduction
Dude, thats your belief. I dont care about that and believing one way or the other isnt a logical flaw.
My only interest in this debate was seeing someone brashfully claim to find logical holes. Here is where you started off:
Note that here you do not mention that its only injustice for Allah to save someone and provide sustenance to him IF He doesnt mention the guy in the Quran.
Agreed, which is why nobodys making that point. The key word isnt “does/will/would” it is can, without it being unjust, as you claimed earlier. So it is just as insane given these Quranic precendents your completely unqualified statement that it is illogical for some person to be saved while others arent and some person to recieve sustenance while the Muslim Ummah suffers. It is also insane given that Ashaab e kehf werent Prophets your assertion that anyone who recieves such treatment must always be a Prophet.
Nobodys out to make the argument that Ashaab e kehf/Bibi Mariam/Hazrat Isa → Imam Mehdi must recieve sustenance. The argument is Ashaab e Kef/Bibi Mariam/Hazrat Isa → God isnt unjust if he saves certain people and provides sustenance to them.
The remaining part of your post is about Quran and hadis and reliability of certain hadises versus others. I couldnt care less about that. My interest was piqued by pretty laughable claims of logical holes, an argument which in the end has been relegated to hadis sources..
If you dont claim to find logical holes, i wouldnt be dissecting your argument.