[quote]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
the word used there is not ab but the plural form aabaa which is commonyl used in urdu as well as "aabaa-o-ajdaad" which means ancestors....the word "ab" means just "father" and nothing else....
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The following is the Ayat (Verse) you are talking about.
Nay ! were you witnesses when death visited Yaqoub, when he said to his sons : What will you serve after me ? They said : Well will serve your God and the God of your fathers, Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq, one God only, and to Him do we submit. 2 : 133 ]
It is used in plural because in this Ayat there are more than one (or two) people mentioned as non-biological fathers. So the point you are giving is illogical. aabbaa (plural) means more than one father or uncle(like father, grandfather, great grandfather and uncles); therefore ab means one father or step father, or father in law or uncle. Same as we use the word abu for both biological father as well as non-biological father. like Abu Talib, Abu Turab, Abu Al Kalam Azad, Abu Al Aallah Moududi etc.
The source of "Ajdaad" is "Jad" means Biological - Grand fathers or Biological - Great grand fathers. Same as Jad -e- Amjad, Jad-e-Aalaah etc. Using Ajdaad in conjunction with Aabaa also clarifies the meanings of Aabaa, which is non-biological fathers, biological fathers, uncle, grand father and great fathers.
But on the other hand the word Walid (singular) is only used for biological father and if you make plural of it, it would include father and mother. this word will always be used if you want to mention the real father of a person like we use in urdu as well Khalid wald Muhammad wald Fazal ...etc
The Arabic word for child "Walad (pl: Awlad)" does not need a dictionary to define, since it is a self-defining word. In Arabic "walada" means to "give birth" and "walad" means "the one who is born."
Similarly Allah used LAM YALID WA-LAM YOLAD
[Shakir 112:3] He begets not, nor is He begotten.
[Yusufali 112:3] He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
[Pickthal 112:3] He begetteth not nor was begotten.
Similarly Wald-uzana, wald-ul-haram are all in Biological sense. etc
It is a historical fact that in the days of Ibrahim the patriarch of the family was addressed as father. The Christians address their priests as father, and in the same sense they refer to God as the father in heaven. Many traditions say that the real father of Ibrahim died before his birth and he was brought up by Azar, his uncle, who was the patriarch of his family. It is also said that Azar, his uncle, married his mother after his father's death, therefore Azar was also his step-father.
Teacher is your father, priest of your father in the sense of ab. but not in the sense of "Walid"
To disprove you must have to bring the other meaning of the Ayat in which Prophet Ibrahim prayed for his parents (Walidayn not Ab or aabaa). along with a prove that the word Ab is used only for Father; for no one else. as it is used for Uncle in Ayat. [2:133]
If there is no proof - we will can consider the parents (Walidayn) of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) and Prophet Ibrahim(AS) were on right path; they were Muslims; deen e Hanif
[quote]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
and Quran mentions that after a time (instructed by Allah) he stopped making istighfaar for his father.... i am sure u know the verse i am talking about....
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The following is the verse you are talking about.
[Shakir 9:113] It is not (fit) for the Prophet and those who believe that they should ask forgiveness for the polytheists, even though they should be near relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are inmates of the flaming fire.
[Yusufali 9:113] It is not fitting, for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for Pagans, even though they be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.
[Pickthal 9:113] It is not for the Prophet, and those who believe, to pray for the forgiveness of idolaters even though they may be near of kin (to them) after it hath become clear that they are people of hell-fire.
This verse was revealed in 9 Hijra
Read the very next Ayat(Verse)
[Shakir 9:114] And Ibrahim asking forgiveness for his sire was only owing to a promise which he had made to him; but when it became clear to him that he was an enemy of Allah, he declared himself to be clear of him; most surely Ibrahim was very tender-hearted forbearing.
[Yusufali 9:114] And Abraham prayed for his father's forgiveness only because of a promise he had made to him. But when it became clear to him that he was an enemy to Allah, he dissociated himself from him: for Abraham was most tender-hearted, forbearing.
[Pickthal 9:114] The prayer of Abraham for the forgiveness of his father was only because of a promise he had promised him, but when it had become clear unto him that he (his father) was an enemy to Allah he (Abraham) disowned him. Lo! Abraham was soft of heart, long-suffering.
Ibrahim prayed for his father (Ab) because of his promise with him. Allah Stopped with him because it became clear unto Ibrahim that his father (Ab : Azar) was an enemy of Allah.
Ibrahim(AS) real father (Walid) was Tarakh. He died when Ibrahim(AS) was very young. Ibrahim(AS) never stopped praying for him even he was very old. [14:41] Even when Allah gave him two sons[14:39] he (AS) prayed for his (Walidayn). [14:41]
"Ibrahim was the son of Tarakh. When Tarakh was 75 years of age, Ibrahim was born to him."
al-Bidaya wal Nihaya, by Ibn Kathir, vol. 1 p 139
Al-Tabari confirms this in his tareekh and in his tafseer:
Tareekh al-Tabari, vol. 1 p 119
Tafsir Al-Tabari, vol. 7 p 158
Denying bible does not mean that you deny the facts; If its true – its true.
Not that it's a perfect source, the Bible confirms that Azar was not the name of Ibrahim's father.
Genesis 11:26 states that Abram's (Ibrahim) name was Terah (sim. to Tarakh) and that Abram was born when Terah was 70.
Ibrahim(A.S.) himself was very old when Allah gave him Ismail(A.S.) and Ishaq(A.S.).
[Muhammad Sarwar 14:39] It is only God who deserves all praise. I praise Him for His giving me my sons Ishmael and Isaac during my old age. My Lord, certainly, hears all prayers.
[Shakir 14:39] Praise be to Allah, Who has given me in old age Ismail and Ishaq; most surely my Lord is the Hearer of prayer:
[Yusufali 14:39] "Praise be to Allah, Who hath granted unto me in old age Isma'il and Isaac: for truly my Lord is He, the Hearer of Prayer!
[Pickthal 14:39] Praise be to Allah Who hath given me, in my old age, Ishmael and Isaac! Lo! my Lord is indeed the Hearer of Prayer.
*At that age Ibrahim prayed to Allah: *
[Muhammad Sarwar 14:41]Lord, on the Day of Judgment, forgive me and my parents and all the believers."
[Shakir 14:41] O our Lord! grant me protection and my parents(Walidayn) and the believers on the day when the reckoning shall come to pass!
[Yusufali 14:41] "O our Lord! cover (us) with Thy Forgiveness - me, my parents(Walidayn) , and (all) Believers, on the Day that the Reckoning will be established!
[Pickthal 14:41] Our Lord! Forgive me and my parents(Walidayn) and believers on the day when the account is cast.
In that prayer Ibrahim mentioned his parents (Walidayn) . Ibrahim asks Allah to favour his parents(Walidayn) with divine grace and forgiveness and keep them safe from sinfulness, therefore there is no doubt that his parents were true believers.
To prove this concept wrong:
You must have to prove that Walid is used not only for father
You must have to prove that the word "ab" has the same meaning as "walid". I gave you the reference of Ayat 2 : 133 ] of Yaqoub (AS).
[Shakir 2:133] Nay! were you witnesses when death visited Yaqoub, when he said to his sons: What will you serve after me? They said: We will serve your god and the god of your fathers, Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq, one Allah only, and to Him do we submit.
[Yusufali 2:133] Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy god and the god of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah: To Him we bow (in Islam)."
[Pickthal 2:133] Or were ye present when death came to Jacob, when he said unto his sons: What will ye worship after me? They said: We shall worship thy god, the god of thy fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac, One Allah, and unto Him we have surrendered.
