If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

[Sehrysh]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

^ And read my comment carefully - I did not say all Pakistanis - I said I noticed it in some.

[Reha]

Re: If you’re Pakistani and you’re mistaken for an Indian…

@Ess_Emm

Maybe 30, 40 years ago there was similarity between the 2 cultures. And sure we look similar to some extent, but after 60+ years of independence, both countries are developing their own separate cultures and identities. Because we have a shared history of centuries there are similar interests and similar values, but it’s diverging and maybe a century later it won’t be similar at all, just like Chinese and Japanese cultures aren’t similar now.

This is an interesting post. I like it.

@Iconoclast

You have to be a Pakistani to understand the feeling. There is a reason, Pakistan and India are called arch rivals, I don’t have to elaborate the reason. And no its got nothing to do with looks and colour. If you refer to an Irish as English, he will get offended.

Call a Croat, Serbian, if he corrects you, tell him, Oh you were once the same country, he will not be happy.

Hm. I didn’t know you were living in Pakistan. According to you, only people in Pakistan holding a green passport qualify to respond?

What color passport do you hold right now?

Pakistaniyat tabhi jagti hai logon ki jab koi Indian keh de.

Anyway, for those who believe we are not the same…sure there are difference and the main one is our faith. But the reason an average individual mistakes us for one or the other is because to a non-biased person…there isn’t much difference at lease physically. And this fact really hurts egos apparently even though the entire country’s roots are Indian.

You can call it potato or poTAHto…it still looks the same. Pointless getting bent out of shape over it.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

I'm not saying punjabis are prettier. Or that they're all Goris. Or that gori skin is better. I'm saying that's what people think when they say "Pakistanis are prettier than Indians". They don't realize that like half of Pakistan looks indian because it's next to India and many of our families migrated over. We did not migrate to be told we don't look Pakistani.

There is no such thing as "looking" Pakistani. There may be a such thing as "acting" or "speaking" Pakistani. But not "looking"

[Green_Beret]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

^If there is no such thing as looking Pakistani then there is no such as thing looking Indian either because Indians are even more diverse than Pakistanis.

[Aaze]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

If someone mistakes me for being Indian, I'll correct them like I would correct anyone who thinks I'm spanish, chinese or iranian. I wouldn't bend out of shape but I won't be particularly pleased either and I definitely don't like the whole "oh you were one country" - Yeah we're not. Move on please.

[Sahdia77]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

I'm originally from Kotli in Kashmir, we have all skin colours there, from dark to white and something in between. Most of them are lovely people, inside and outside. With some exceptions of course. I like to see those differences, nice variety so to speak. Nothing wrong with that. Beautiful people are from everywhere and every skin colour, even though I'm personally not attracted to people from every country or continent, I do see beauty in people from everywhere. Some of the loveliest people I know are black. (Eritrea and Portugal, especially Portugese)

This discussion is reminding me of the dark skin - fair skin issue. How sad that had to become an issue.

I agree about people not 'looking' Pakistani. Because of customs and clothing, you can recognise us, but other than that, it's difficult. I've been called Turkish, people asked if I'm Moroccan, Arabian, from the Philippines, Indonesia, if I'm Caucasian Dutch or French or American or English or from one of the East-European countries.

Only when they say India they come close. Sometimes someone will say Bangladesh. After 9-11 people only asked me if I came from Afghanistan (even after being born and raised in the Netherlands, I've worn salwar kameez most of my life), now most of them stopped asking that and it's back to 'are you from India' 'No, my origins are in Pakistan, but I'm born here, so I'm Dutch too' 'Really? Pakistan? So, Bin Laden is Pakistani too, right? No? Do you support him?'

[Theorist]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

Meh.. I am a citizen of this world and have been mistaken for everything from Indian, Mexican, Filipino, Persian, Italian, Russian, Albanian, and even Polish. Not everyone knows what every race and ethnicity look like. It's dumb to get offended.

[Mezhgan]

Re: If you’re Pakistani and you’re mistaken for an Indian…

@Green_Beret

Well many Afghans in the states do call themselves ‘Persian’, i’m not saying all of them do but there are many that do.

You make it sound as if the ‘fascination’ of fair skin is only prevalent among South Asians when in reality it is a universal epidemic; People all over the world view fair skin and european facial features as a virtue(unfortunately), in Middle eastern countries people bleach their skin and dye their hair blonde
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/08/20/55137.html

The sames true in the Far East; Japanese,Chinese,Filipino and Korean women bleach their skin and wear colored contacts, they also do double eye-lid surgery to make themselves appear Caucasian, and the Iranians are known for getting nose jobs(they also like to call themselves ‘Italian’ in America).

Then you’ve got racism all over Latin America, just watch any Latino show and the actors look nothing like real latinos, it’s the samething in Africa.

There’s internal racism among African-Americans, where the lighter-skinned ones look down on the darker and they bleach their skin too.
There’s even colorism among Southern Europeans where they try to distance their connections to the middle east and africa and try to appear more scandinavian.

Even Malala Yusufzai wrote in her biography about how girls at her school in Swat would talk about fairness creams and she said her father had self-esteem issues because he was darker than most swatis, so even the northern parts of Pakistan aren’t immune from colorism.

That’s a load of bs, if i were to believe you, that would mean that Afghanistan is the only country in the world where there is no colorism; in reality colorism is prevalent in Afghanistan, and that’s why Afghans generally look down Pakistanis and Indians, they view them weak and inferior refer to them ‘tor’ in their language, it’s also why Afghan marauders invaded south asia and subjugated the Indic peoples, even the Muslim ones just because they were brown and never considered them ‘proper Muslim’(this attitude is still prevalent among Afghans, especially the nationalistic ones.

I’m just speaking from experience; there are Afghans that i know that have referred to themselves as 'Persian, and most Middle eastern people(idk about Afghans) like being mistaken for southern euros, almost everybody wants to be Italian or Spanish.

Persia does not only refer to modern day Iranian. Historically, at one point Persia also included part of Eastern Afghanistan. Afghan people who refer to themselves as Persian do so to differentiate themselves from the Pashtun majority and mean that they are not Pashtun and are Dari speaking, not that they consider themselves Iranian. In reference to preferences in Afghanistan, I’m not stating that we don’t have our own rather specific standard of beauty or that people don’t find specific features attractive because every culture has that. However, traditionally light skin colour has never a requirement for marriage or in the “ideal woman.”

Yes, every country has its preferences and some may even prefer light skin. However, to state that the fascination with fair skin is given as much emphasis in the rest of the world as it is on the subcontinent is inaccurate. In the countries you mention, its rather unlikely that lack of fairness hinders someone’s marriage prospects or that people reject marriage proposals because the person is not far.

As far as Afghans looking down on Pakistanis, the reason for that is primarily political. Many Afghan people view Pakistani interference as largely responsible for the chaos of the last 40 years and accuse Pakistan of supporting and aiding the Taliban. I’m not stating that this is entirely accurate, but it is the view some people have of Pakistan and the reason for the animosity.

[OYMWA]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

[QUOTE]
and the main one is our faith.
[/QUOTE]

Just like to point out that there are as many muslims ( or maybe more ) in India as there are in Pakistan. India is not as homogenous in terms of faith as is Pakistan.

The way this conversation evolved from india vs. pakistan to goray vs. kaaley to punjabis vs non-punjabis etc is a sad reflection of state of affairs in pakistan. Even supposedly intelligent and educated people seem to feel the need to identify and defend themselves along ethnic lines even now. There is no one fighting for pakistan. And no one is fighting for islam.

Youn tho Syed bhi ho, Mirza bhi ho, Afghan bhi ho
Tum sabhi kuch ho, batao tho musalmaan bhi ho?

That was written in 1913, over 100 years ago.

[Green_Beret]

Re: If you’re Pakistani and you’re mistaken for an Indian…

@Mezhgan

Persia does not only refer to modern day Iranian. Historically, at one point Persia also included part of Eastern Afghanistan. Afghan people who refer to themselves as Persian do so to differentiate themselves from the Pashtun majority and mean that they are not Pashtun and are Dari speaking, not that they consider themselves Iranian. In reference to Afghanistan, I’m not stating that we don’t have our own rather specific standard of beauty or that people don’t find specific features attractive because every culture has that. However, traditionally light skin colour has never a requirement for marriage or in the “ideal woman.”

Well idk about the pashtun in afghanistan but in Pakistan according to Malala, girls in village talked about fairness creams and Swat isn’t too far from Afghanistan, and i also know Afghans who doubt somebody’s Afghaniyat just because they’re dark skinned and suspect that they’re ‘mixed’.

Yes, every country has its share of self hating individuals and everyone has their preference. However, to state that the fascination with fair skin is given as much emphasis in the rest of the world as it is on the subcontinent is ludicrous.

No, you’re statement is ludicrous because a large number of women in East Asia, the middle east and Latin America as well Africa bleach their skin, they even go further than South Asian women and dye their hair blonde,wear weaves,contacts; if you watch any Latino or Middle eastern movie you would find it hard to believe that the people on tv look like the locals; colorism is universal and that’s why there is racism in America and Europe based skin color.

While there may be individuals in other parts of the world who find fair skin more attractive, not being fair skinned will not hinder someone’s marriage prospects in other countries nor do people in other countries commonly reject marriage proposals solely because the person is not fair.

Actually if you look at statistics, African-American women are the least likeliest to marry outside their race, why is that?Because they’re the darkest, and for the same reasons many Indian and some Pakistani girls find it hard to date outside their race because the darker skinned ethnics are placed at the bottom of the dating totem pole, even to this day White girls are usually put on a pedestal, as the standard of beauty, both by the media and people in general.

As far as Afghans looking down on Pakistanis, the reason for that is primarily political. Many Afghan people view Pakistani interference as largely responsible for the chaos of the last 40 years and accuse Pakistan of supporting and aiding the Taliban. I’m not stating that this is entirely accurate, but it is the view some people have of Pakistan and the reason for the animosity.

That’s not entirely accurate, Afghans have looked down on Indic people even before Pakistan’s inception, they treated them as second class citizens(yes even the Muslim ones) for being darker and I’ve heard Afghans say racist stuff about Sindhis,Punjabis,Urdu-speakers etc and it may have been politically motivated but skin color played a role too, so for you to believe that Afghans don’t care about skin color despite being vehement racists is downright absurd and FAR from the inconvenient truth

Just look at most Pakistan bridal makeup looks. They are all the same. Regardless of the bride’s actual skin tone, the makeup artist usually uses foundation that is at least 4 shades lighter. Common in the rest of the world? Not really.

Bridal make up is crazy in South Asia but so is it in most of Asia

^That bride is getting caked in make up and she’s from the other side of the durrand line

[Captain_Obvious]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

@Reha

..what is the big deal?

Pakistan and India were at one point in time - the same country and while the religious differences still exist - the people still resemble each other in many ways.

So why do people get so bent out of shape and sensitive if someone says "Indian" and not "Pakistani"?

I guess you could say it's the inverse for me...I'm of Indian descent but people sometimes confuse me for being Pakistani. I don't mind it but I'll correct them since the questions are almost always along the lines of "are you Pakistani". A lot of times I'll also be confused for being Gujarati and I'll tell them I'm not. However I've never been offended by it.

Also, since I grew up in the west, I'd say that I really don't see much difference between Indian Muslims and Pakistanis.

[Ice_Baby]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

A lot of the times it's not just about colour itself It's about the features also and height and body build and hairstyle and how liberal they are

[Mezhgan]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

@Green_Beret

That's not entirely accurate, Afghans have looked down on Indic people even before Pakistan's inception, they treated them as second class citizens(yes even the Muslim ones) for being darker and I've heard Afghans say racist stuff about Sindhis,Punjabis,Urdu-speakers etc and it may have been politically motivated but skin color played a role too, so for you to believe that Afghans don't care about skin color despite being vehement racists is downright absurd and FAR from the inconvenient truth.

Oh dear. Where did I state that Afghans are immune from racism? I never stated that some Afghan people are not racist. Obviously, some people are. What I stated was that the animosity and downright hatred some Afghans have towards Pakistanis is not primarily based on skin colour.

Most of the hostility is politically motivated and based on other idiotic stereotypes and prejudices, not solely colour. For instance, a common stereotype some Afghan people have of Pakistanis is that they're not "real muslims" and "copy hindus" because some Pakistani traditions resemble traditions in India, such as brides wearing red, wedding traditions, and living in joint families. Most of the arrogance and contempt some Afghan people have towards Pakistanis is based on similar outlandish stereotypes and political animosity.

[Green_Beret]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

@Mezhgan

Oh dear. Where did I state that Afghans are immune from racism? I never stated that some Afghan people are not racist. Obviously, some people are. What I stated was that the animosity and downright hatred some Afghans have towards Pakistanis is not primarily based on skin colour.

Most of the hostility is politically motivated and based on other idiotic stereotypes and prejudices, not solely colour. For instance, a common stereotype some Afghan people have of Pakistanis is that they're not "real muslims" and "copy hindus" because some Pakistani traditions resemble traditions in India, such as brides wearing red, wedding traditions, and living in joint families. Most of the arrogance and contempt some Afghan people have towards Pakistanis is based on similar stereotypes and political animosity.

I don't see how Pakistanis copy 'hindus', over 50-65% of Pakistanis are Indics and descend from Hindu converts so they're just following the traditions their ancestors did, similarly how Iranic people celebrate Nowroz and follow zoroaster traditions and Balkan Muslims follow European culture; if you realy want to see the most Hinduized version of Islam then you should visit Indonesia; it's really common for Indonesian Muslims to have Hindu names.

[Mademoiselle]

Re: If you’re Pakistani and you’re mistaken for an Indian…

^ :k:

[Mezhgan]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

@Green_Beret

I don't see how Pakistanis copy 'hindus', over 50-65% of Pakistanis are Indics and descend from Hindu converts so they're just following the traditions their ancestors did, similarly how Iranic people celebrate Nowroz and follow zoroaster traditions and Balkan Muslims follow European culture; if you realy want to see the most Hinduized version of Islam then you should visit Indonesia; it's really common for Indonesian Muslims to have Hindu names.

I did state that such stereotypes were absurd and idiotic. It is also rather hypocritical given that all Muslim cultures retain some cultural traditions that date from the pre-Islamic era.

[Jolie]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

@Green_Beret

^If there is no such thing as looking Pakistani then there is no such as thing looking Indian either because Indians are even more diverse than Pakistanis.

Well said.

I'm surprised at the foolishness and ignorance reeks from some of the posts. People who say "Pakistanis" look like "Indians" probably know jack sht about the profound racial, cultural and lingual diversity of both Pakistan and India. Not all Pakistanis look the same, not all of Indians look the same. There is so much diversity within those countries, so how can people can think they're being clever by making such all fluffy and airy broad brush statements? If only all of Pakistan meant whatever town and city you visit every 1-15years for 14 days and all of India meant whatever town or city their families migrated from nearly seventy years ago. There's so much to these two countries than whatever wishy washy stuff one pretends to see their snowy vision.

Instead of pulling ethnic cards, it might help if people buy themselves a good history book on Punjab. It might help them think before typing and save them from embarrassing themselves.

[queer]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

any particular history book that will aid people distinguish the various brownie peepz of the subcontinent from each other from one or two casual glances? please recommend, jolie je..

[Jolie]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

[QUOTE]
But the reason an average individual mistakes us for one or the other is because to a non-biased person.
[/QUOTE]

Errr, that's got nothing to do with bias in most cases, it essentially reduces down to level of regional and ethnic familiarity, knowledge and experience one has.

I cannot tell a difference between Caribbean and African black, or a Nigerian black or a Kenyan black, but literally all my black friends can. Likewise, to my mother, a white person is a white person regardless of his/her nationality. I, however, can mostly and in some cases easily distinguish between a German and an Englishman, Scandinavian and French, and between an Italian and Spanish. That's not me be being bias, that's just me knowing a thing or two about local population and history, along with having tiny bit of interest in genealogy.

I occasionally used to walk to down to school with an Argentinian girl who absolutely hated being confused as Brazilian at the age of 14. I always thought it's something to with world famous and my personal favourite Argentina vs Brazil football rivalry, but apparently there's lot more to it. So yes, identity can be very important to people, and people identify themselves in a lot of different ways with lot of different things.

[Theorist]

Re: If you're Pakistani and you're mistaken for an Indian...

Mujhe to yeh samajh nahi arahi why do people expect others to know what every race and ethnicity look like? Pakistanis and Indians are very mixed to begin with. Hardly anyone in either country is pure racially. This is so idiotic!