Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
That would never been happen!
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
Ishtiaq Ahmed book , Punjab Bloodied and Portioned is a magnum opus research spanning 20 years ,and used direct orignal narratives of those who experienced the Punjab holocaust of 47 and official secret British Papers of that ERA ....
it is highly objective , unbiased ,and comprehensive , infact a few commentators have defined it as the encyclopedia of communal violence in Punjab that took place from 3 March 1947 onward.
its a must read especially for Punjabis , who themselves are unaware of what happened to them , and the subsequent constructive national narrative have hidden the ugly FACTs on how Punjab was divided , and for whom ....
but perhaps punjabis are still trapped in the trauma of 1947 ,... ask any Punjabis and most probably he will avoid the talk on it.. !! ....and since he himself does not knows much of how he Punjab was hoodwinked .....so all kind of spin doctoring and myths have gained currency and are treated as pesudo truths ... ...but the actual truth is really ugly .....and the Real Loser is Actually Punjabi .......
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
Ishtiaq Ahmed book , Punjab Bloodied and Portioned is a magnum opus research spanning 20 years ,and used direct orignal narratives of those who experienced the Punjab holocaust of 47 and official secret British Papers of that ERA .... it is highly objective , unbiased ,and comprehensive , infact a few commentators have defined it as the encyclopedia of communal violence in Punjab that took place from 3 March 1947 onward.
its a must read especially for Punjabis , who themselves are unaware of what happened to them , and the subsequent constructive national narrative have hidden the ugly FACTs on how Punjab was divided , and for whom .... but perhaps punjabis are still trapped in the trauma of 1947 ,... ask any Punjabis and most probably he will avoid the talk on it.. !! ....and since he himself does not knows much of how he Punjab was hoodwinked .....so all kind of spin doctoring and myths have gained currency and are treated as pesudo truths ... ...but the actual truth is really ugly .....and the Real Loser is Actually Punjabi .......
Racist?
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
Racist?
I think you didnt get the gist of his post.
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
From the previous article "Glancy’s successor, Governor Sir Evan Jenkins noted in his report dated February 28, “The Sikhs have been profoundly moved by the obvious desire of the Muslims to seize Punjab for themselves and would not permit them to do so. The agitation has shown Pakistan in all its nakedness and was a fair example of the kind of treatment that the minorities, including the Sikhs, might expect from Muslim extremists”(Page 124). "
These are the views of a British governor prior to Pakistan's creation, hasent this proven to be true?
In 47 we had one division on basis of religion, now the same fight is continuing on the bases of sects.
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
thank you every one for your unbiased views. I am a punjabi hindu, whose grandparents had to move from peshawer as refugees, after the partition.
That is, if there been a peaceful partition, I would have been born a pakistani!!? ha ha. sounds unreal now....
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
^ My grand parents had to move the other way, it was a two way street...
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
There are two sides to each story. For example, read this about Direct Action day:
CHAPTERS FROM HISTORY: Muslim League and ‘Direct Action’ plan -DAWN Magazine; December 16, 2001
It is common for Indians to put blame of everything that goes wrong in India over Pakistan or Muslims. They still have not changed.
But whatever the case may be, it is naive to put the blame of millions of death all across the subcontinent of one or two events. The fact remains that Hindus/Sikhs were the grieving party when Pakistan was created. And it is the grieving party which is ore likely to take revenge.
No hogwash can change this fact.
I have read the history of our ancestral town in bharatpur state. The Hindu raja started a campaign of systematic killings of all Muslims at the time of partition. The only reason he did that was to teach Muslims a lesson for supporting formation of Pakistan. Plain and simple.
Today that town is no more. Had the raja not massacred his own people, a lot of them would have stayed in town of Pehersar. But now it has been emptied of all Muslims.
To get an idea of feeling of revenge among Hindus due to creation of Pakistan can be seen by what Ali Sardar Jafri said. He was also from my town of Pehersar.
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?203604
My mother’s brother was hacked to death at Paharsir near Bharatpur. This, despite assurances of protection from the Bharatpur maharaja with whom the family had cordial relations. The rioters weren’t locals. They came from elsewhere. Thirsty for the blood and belongings of their victims. I remember writing in the wake of those riots:
“Maadre Hind ke chehrey pe udaasi hai wahi
Khanjar aazad hain seeney mein utarne ke liye
Aur maut aazad hai laashon pe guzarney ke liye.”
(Hindustan’s face is sad, ravaged, still
*Daggers are poised to pierce hearts, still! *
And death’s shadow waits to loom over dead bodies, still.)
—
Now aussiindian, do listen to Ali Jafri’s advice at the end of the article. May be it will bring you some solace and peace. It is time to move on.
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?203604
The Partition is irrevocable. Despite our shared histories, this is one fact we’ll have to reconcile to if we are to transcend an ugly past.
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
Ali syed - sorry to hear that your family too were affected with the violence.
khoji - i agree that there are two sides to every story. i hope you will remember that, when you next time badmouth indians, hindus, nehru, gandhi or anyone else.
partition- we have enough problems of our own, thank god that it is irrevocable.
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
partition- we have enough problems of our own, thank god that it is irrevocable.
Couldn't agree with you more.
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
I think you didnt get the gist of his post.
He only understands smileys:)
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
My Family is a Punjabi Bussines Family ....before partition our people were spread all over India, Bombay , Madras, Calcutta , Delhi , Karachi , Dacca, khulna , Chitagong., Agra......
.....we saw the 47 violence first hand .... and suffered , and I mean really suffered ...
then we saw the second migration in 71 ... again we suffered....
...but Being a Punjabi .... I belong to a land , where the name says it all ...
"....aasi paniyaan dee sarzameen dey putter , tey assi wee pani wargay ......apna rasta aap banandey heyn.... pani wargey her rang ich dhal jandey heyn....tey neewaan reh keh agay lagh jandaey heyn..... tey agr bhipar jawiyee tey feyr Pani dey aggay koi wee taqt tik naheen sakdee.... .."
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
He only understands smileys:)
Like you only Understands Jiye Bhutto! :)
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
Ali syed - sorry to hear that your family too were affected with the violence.
khoji - i agree that there are two sides to every story. i hope you will remember that, when you next time badmouth indians, hindus, nehru, gandhi or anyone else.
partition- we have enough problems of our own, thank god that it is irrevocable.
What? Where did you see me bad mouthing any of them? I don't have time to waste on discussing that.
Obviously, it was you who started this thread, not me.
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
1947 partition being peaceful would have not changed the status quo. The predominant source of the Indo-Pak conflict is just Kashmir, not the memory of partition violence.
If the princely states were forced by the British to be included in the plebiscite, then there would have been no military conflict between the countries. The partition violence would have still occurred because the masses in our country have a collective stupidity, but the political and military elite on both sides would have seen the value of maintaining good relations and things would have been amicable and prosperous.
Instead, we got the Kashmir issue, which has caused problems all the way down to this week.
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
Kashmir problem enters the picture AFTER partition ....
... Mahraja of Kashmir is undecided ,..... Qabilii Lashkar does a Yalghar ....but then stops short of victory ....starts in loot in plunder instead..... Mahraja .... get enough time to be coerced by the Indians their way ... and the rest is history...
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
Kashmir problem enters the picture AFTER partition ....
... Mahraja of Kashmir is undecided ,..... Qabilii Lashkar does a Yalghar ....but then stops short of victory ....starts in loot in plunder instead..... Mahraja .... get enough time to be coerced by the Indians their way ... and the rest is history...
My point is that the death in partition are not a significant part of the problems between India and Pakistan that hold them back.
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
..you consider 13-14 lac deaths ....out of which 10 lac were Punjabis , beside 14.2 Mllion displaced 9.2 M Punjabis, 3.2 M Benglais , and 1.2 M Sindhis ] ....not significant... !!
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
@madscientist, I think that is true. Partition violence is not the issue between the two countries anymore. In fact that violence lost significance on the psyche of the people of the two countries soon after independence. There was a lot of trade happening between the two, people used to move back and forth quite openly, movies were shown freely, etc.
It was only due to the Kashmir problem and the wars that ensued which caused so much bad blood between the two countries.
So violence or no violence, things would have remained the same between the two due to the Kashmir dispute.
Re: if the 1947 Partition had been peaceful.
Racist?
kitniee bar bataya hai kay har jaga panga mat liya karo...especially when there is a serious discussion!