If not evolution,

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Re: If not evolution,

so evolution is a conspiracy theory made up by a bunch of scientists whose aim is to.. well what is their aim?

22

Re: If not evolution,

^hahahahahahahha : D

23

Re: If not evolution,

The alternative to evolution is either one of three possible creationist compatible theories that I postulate:

a) Single generation transformation
b) Spontaneous Creation
c) Revelation

In Islam we believe that God has the power to just say "be" and and "it is" ... Likewise, if God wanted to introduce a new species ... the process would be that several specimens of this new species are spontaneously created in animated motion ... Some can appear in this reality whilst eating, killing or fighting and know exactly what they need to do - as if a new layer to a film strip is added on to the background ... This is spontaneous Creation.

Single generation transformation is something else ... in the off chance that God does bring life from other life forms it will happen very quickly ... i.e. within the lifetime of a specimen ... What will happen will be that again several of a given population of species x will be simultaneously changing in genetic structure as they grow or sleep or live in the same way such that they can continue to propagate with one another forming species y ... It will be like a morphing process of one animal to another ... but happen very quickly compared to evolution. So not gradual through gestation, but immediate through biophysical changes - like the hulk transformation, except that a selected number do this in a synchronous way.

Both share similar timescales - which is immediate or nearly immediate change - this infers Intelligence has to play a part in this and rules out chance ... Evolution depends on longer time scales only so it can factor out God ... It neither succeeds in factoring out God and it cannot really explain the fossil record.

In fact the third also, is a postulate of Creation by revelation can be analogous to a story book where a given creature is introduced some time after 80 or so pages ... where prior to page 79 the creature was not known and hence not real or not created, but as soon as it is introduced, it has it's own presence and becomes detailed in the story "as though it had always been there" ... likewise ... God as amazing as He is ... can not only introduce a new creature, but also introduce a fossil record for it to compliment it as though it has always been there, but we just didn't look hard enough ... The fact is we would never know ... The new creature is said to be revealed to us - i.e. from the domain of the Knowledge of Allah (SWT) it becomes known to us in this domain, but all life forms have had a start date that predates their appearance on the Earth.

24

Re: If not evolution,

Their aim is to remove God from the equation of life ... Hence facilitate domination of human minds by other humans thus not having to worry about those who believe in religion.

25

Re: If not evolution,

psyah. have you gone out and tested any of this or tried to reason it out scientifically?

does the fossil record, geologic history, etc support your postulations?

26

Re: If not evolution,

first part: already happens. in many forms. mullahs? madrasas? subjugation of women? ; )

second part: what?

27

Re: If not evolution,

If you think this through then you needn't ask me ... Evolutionists do not wish for morality - I'm not talking about subjugation and what people do in the name of religion ... I'm talking about evolutionists creating evolution to be the vehicle to replace God and that being a mechanism that supports secular ideals and is a political ideology more than anything else.

28

Re: If not evolution,

I have more than evolution has ... In the first instance both evolution and me - we are equally as blind we have neither seen evolution nor have I seen my theory manifest and besides if I did ever see it happen by definition I would not realise it read postulate c) ... However the fossil record supports my three theories more than it does evolution.

29

Re: If not evolution,

and I’m talking about a mechanism that supports radical, evil ideas and is a made-up religious ideology more than anything. : )

hehe, and you think atheists have no morality :cb: lol.

30

Re: If not evolution,

how old do you think the earth is?

31

Re: If not evolution,

translation: no. I have not done any of this.

32

Re: If not evolution,

deny the existence of a creator

33

Re: If not evolution,

That is correct - I have not done any of this, but I do not expect to be asked a question where the questioners side have not done the same thing ... This whole thread is hypothetical - I don't need to experiment with my theories - I simply hear the Qur'an and believe it ... However, my theories do pose a big threat to evolution because most evolutionists believe that evolution is the only thing that can be true but there are many ways life could have come to the Earth ... we do not have to rely on evolution for that - and furthermore evolution is flawed because of it's gradualism ... the changes if they occurred had to be en mass and immediate in order for the generations to continue a new branch of life.

34

Re: If not evolution,

Even if evolutionary theory is true, it does not prove that God does not exist.

Ironically, philosophy asks psyah if he had tested any of the three compatible explanations he proposed. Yet if we ask the same question to philosophy, he will remain without any valid answer.

Most of the evidence for descent through modification and speciation comes from anthropological studies and fossils. This constitutes indirect evidence. Looking at past, and explaining the trends via naturalist explanations. None of this has been tested in lab. No new species have been created from an old one in a lab. The most Philosophy or Dr. Lulu can lay claim to is the emergence of a "whole new freaking gene" which itself is not true. Its not a new gene, just a mutation in already existing gene within a hotspot on DNA which allowed those bacteria to utilize citrate (if I can recall the contents) instead of glucose for replication. This is the only prospective lab evidence you have!

And if you want to refer to antibiotic resistance or new vaccination for Influenza virus, that is not "evolution" into new species. That is just modification. No one denies that.

The day you can mutate the genome of a lower animal in a lab in such a way that it becomes human genome (due to all mutations, transpositions, translocations in a time lapsed manner by increasing mutation rates via radiation or whatever other means compared to baseline natural mutation) and then grow a baby from it, I'd give up and accept your theory of evolution as a bona fide fact of life. Show me conclusive fool proof evidence and I'd accept I am wrong. You have no direct convincing fool proof well designed experiment to prove your position. All you have are retrospective explanation of historical trends. Hardly objective.

35

Re: If not evolution,

Yes, the only morality they have is based on ever-changing genome, fluctuating concentrations of neurotransmitters in substantia nigra, hippocampus, nucleus accumbens and frontal cortex. That is hardly a definition of “morality” in any sense of the word.

36

Re: If not evolution,

you guys are sp misinformed :(

"modification" ??

pulls hair out

psyah didn't answer my question...

you cannot create new species out of old ones just like that :( no you can't....omg. just no.

37

Re: If not evolution,

You seem to be incapable of rational discourse. How old are you again, kid? 15? I am 28 years old Veteran. I was an atheist before for the most part of my life and a hardcore evolutionist during my days at Oxford University.

Now I am an anti-atheist savage.

38

Re: If not evolution,

^good for you. and good bye.

39

Re: If not evolution,

really? were people like Charles Darwin or Gregor Mendel atheists or creator-deniers?

evolution doesn't rule out a creator who designed such an elegant mechanism that fits in neatly into the fabric of our world. 99% of those who argue against evolution in my experience have been people who simple can not comprehend it.

40

Re: If not evolution,

Philo is too classy to drop names about which university she attends. Her logic speaks for her intelligence.