IAF Capabilities vs PAF Power

Society Military and Strategic Issues
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Yeah, we are also waiting for remaining show ;)

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Well in 1948 we captured a third of Kashmir.

In 1965 we fought Indian until it agreed to a ceasefire…i.e it knew that it could not defeat Pakistan.

In Kargill we pre-empted a war with India that the BJP government that had been threatening Pakistan with since it took office. After Kargill they shut up. A few hundred men held out against ten of thousands of Indian soldiers for weeks. They only withdrew when they were ordered to by the Pakistani government.

A few times India has massed troops on the border only to be told by their military leadership that they could not win a war…and it would end up in stalemate.

We have grown and our adversary with India has made us stronger.

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What did you preempt, Peace?? Weren't Vajpayee and Sharif were trying to make peace in Lahore?

The born leader , the only hope
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Re: IAF Capabilities vs PAF Power

The fundamentalist hindu party after forming a government tested nuclear bombs and then started making aggressive statements against Pakistan. How can there be peace with hindu religious fundmentalists in power, if there was no peace for the previous 50 years or so. India has never been sincere about peace. Its say one thing and does something else. Below in an interview before Kargill of hawkish Indian Defence Minister George Fernandes.

``There is some part of Jammu and Kashmir which is lying with China. That is a factor which can't be lightly dismissed,'' Fernandes said in a wide-ranging interview to Eenadu Television.

*Referring to Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK), the Defence Minister said ``the ground realities are that there is a part of Jammu and Kashmir which is occupied by Pakistan, and that part has to be reclaimed.'' *

He also ruled out conversion of the Line of Control (LoC) into an international border. ``That is not the position of the government and I don't think that will be the position of the government.''

Asked about the country's internal and external threats, Fernandes spoke of exploitation of economic problems by outside forces,the proxy war by Pakistan, the border problem with China and a perceived Chinese influence over Myanmar and the Andaman and Nicobar Islands.

``We have seen what happened in Mumbai, Coimbatore and we have also seen the insurgencies in the Northeast.''

The Andaman and Nicobar Islands are the most insecure'' frontier of India, the Defence Minister said.We have a naval outfit there, a small Army unit and a couple of airfields, and that is about all. These sea lanes are of very vital significance for India's security.''

``Now we have decided to go in for a new naval command (third command) in Andamans to deal with the situation.'' On the situation on the LoC, he said that in the past three to four days, Pakistani forces had raised their level of firing and the civilian population had become their target.

On the post-Pokharan talks with the United States, he said, ``Both sides are able to see each other's concerns, and there seems to have been greater understanding of our concerns on the part of theUS.''

Now that India has gone nuclear, he said, a command and control system is inevitable. There is no question of whether we are going to have it. It is a must.''
However, in Indiait is the political leadership that will have to keep its fingers on the trigger,'' Fernandes said.
Asked about the minimum level of weaponisation of nuclear capability which could provide a credible nuclear deterrence, he said, ``It is a matter which is best left unsaid.''

Fabric and tailoring costs in Pakistan
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Re: IAF Capabilities vs PAF Power

if u guys are done hurtling insults...lets go for coffee...hahaha

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Yes that was the point :omg:

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heii heiii Punjabee jiii… pls do not make our friends nervous :hehe:

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Prove it !

You are watching a lot of Star news and seems like you are getting your facts from Times of India :omg:

The only war lost against you was in 1971 and everyone knows how and why. As for 1999, everyone knows how Few hundred pak jawans took on Indian coward soldiers. I posted just one example of our soldier in this thread to show you how we fought your army.

I have many more examples and if you want i will them here before you.

In Kargil war, we were truly all over you. Our jawaans fought with great Jazaba and outclassed your army, despite the fact that they were larger than us in [quantity]. We won the kargil war but as i said before - from Political Point of View we lost it badly. We came under huge pressure from Western World and that is when we withdrew our troops. And remeber it was INDIA who cried in front of the world and asked for ‘other countries help’ to persuade pak to withdraw its troops.

As far as casualites are concerned, you suffered far more looses than us, check your own government figures and check ours. Stop watching bollywood thrash and face the truth.

And last but not least, your coward army only managed to attack us when we were withdrawing our troops. That is when we suffered looses but still they were still no way near the looses your army suffered.

Time Pass... Feb 2014
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:rotfl: And gifted part of it to China ??

Pak started the 1965 war to get Kashmir. Doesn’t the fact that you could not accomplish that objective means that you lost ?

Vajpayee & Sharif were talking peace before Kargil. Where did the threat of war come from ?

P.S. You forgot to mention 26/11 in the wars which Pak started & “won” :hoonh:

TTP claim killing 23 FC soldiers.
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Pakistani airforce pilots accumulate more hours in air on thier planes per year then the Indian airforce pilots.

In the event of war, India will not be able to establish air superiority as half of their airforce based on short range aircrafts would be prettymuch grounded as all the Indian airbases would be destroyed within the 300 km radius within 24 hours by the Pakistani missiles. :)

The other half of Indian planes would be on half fuel by the time they approach Pakistan airspace and would have been picked up by PAF radars 200 km away and due to the more advanced PAF defence network based on C4i, Indian planes' lethality would be severly compromised by the waiting flock of PAF jets.

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So what???

It does not matter how the war started and why. The fact is India despite being much larger realised that it could not defeat Pakistan. I would say if war ends up in stalemate then the victorious is the smaller and weaker side.

They can talk as much as they want but unless India agrees to hold a plebiscite it is just beating about the bush like it has for the last 60 years.

What war was that? There has not been an all out war for nearly 40 years now. If there is new a war then Indian cities and infrastructure would be reduced to rubble.

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I dont understand your logic. India did not start the 1965 war. Pak started it to get Kashmir (heard about Operation Gibraltar ? ). India did not let Pak get Kashmir. So how is that India’s loss ?

26/11 Mumbai where Pak sent 10 “soldiers” to fight India :hehe:

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Re: IAF Capabilities vs PAF Power

You seem pretty simple...so let me try to explain it in a different way.

Say a little kid wants his neighbours football, and goes into the neighbours garden to get it. The neighbour sees this and starts fighting the boy and trys to occupy the boys house in return. The boys stops the adult from going into his house and after fighting for a few minutes they decide to try to live normally side by side. The adult should have managed to evict the boy from his house and managed to occupy the boys house. He failed to do that...so it is a loss. Nobody would have expected the little boy to stand up to the adult and to stop him in his tracks.The boy accomplished more than he was expected to and the adult achieved less than what others would have expected of him.

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Re: IAF Capabilities vs PAF Power

Well, if India really wanted to occupy Pak it would have attacked first & occupied Pak :hehe:

But if it makes you feel good about yourself - sure, Pak won in 1965 :rotfl:

Now, lets move on from jokes to facts -

  1. Pak launched Operation gibraltar which was a failure since the Pak intruders were detected by Indian forces, and Pak did not get the cooperation that it was hoping for from local Kashmiris. Instead the locals reported the infiltration to Indian forces.
  2. After confirming Pak involvement, India launched punitive strikes in POK and gained territory.
  3. To counter Indian strikes, Pak launched Operation Grand Slam which led to further strikes from India and eventually Indian forces advancing into Pak’s Punjab province.
  4. The war ended due to a UN mandated ceasefire and subsequent Tashkent declaration.
  5. In the war, India gained more territory than Pak (710 sq mile vs 210), lost fewer men (3000 vs 3800) & while the areas gained by Pak were infertile, Indian gains were in the fertile Sialkot, Lahore & Kashmir sectors.

So you should be thanking the UN for saving your backsides :hehe:

This may be contrary to what you have been taught, but truth is bitter. Read up some independent sources to educate yourself.

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Re: IAF Capabilities vs PAF Power

Here are some neutral assessments of the 1965 war -

Enjoy :hehe:

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There have been several neutral assessments of the losses incurred by both India and Pakistan during the war. Most of these assessments agree that India had a upper hand over Pakistan when ceasefire was declared. Some of the neutral assessments are mentioned below —

The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy–on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan’s army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country’s military defeat by “Hindu India” and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government.[46]](India–Pakistan war of 1965 - Wikipedia)

  • TIME magazine reported that India held 690 mi2 of Pakistan territory while Pakistan held 250 mi2 of Indian territory in Kashmir and Rajasthan. Additionally, Pakistan had lost almost half its armour temporarily.[47]](India–Pakistan war of 1965 - Wikipedia) The same article stated that -

Severely mauled by the larger Indian armed forces, Pakistan could continue the fight only by teaming up with Red China and turning its back on the U.N.

The invading Indian forces outfought their Pakistani counterparts and halted their attack on the outskirts of Lahore, Pakistan’s second-largest city. By the time United Nations intervened on September 22, Pakistan had suffered a clear defeat.

The superior Indian forces, however, won a decisive victory and the army could have even marched on into Pakistani territory had external pressure not forced both combatants to cease their war efforts.

In three weeks the second Indo-Pak War ended in what appeared to be a draw when the embargo placed by Washington on U.S. ammunition and replacements for both armies forced cessation of conflict before either side won a clear victory. India, however, was in a position to inflict grave damage to, if not capture, Pakistan’s capital of the Punjab when the cease-fire was called, and controlled Kashmir’s strategic Uri-Poonch bulge, much to Ayub’s chagrin.

India’s chief of army staff urged negotiations on the ground that they were running out ammunition and their number of tanks had become seriously depleted. In fact, the army had used less than 15% of its ammunition compared to Pakistan, which had consumed closer to 80 percent and India had double the number of serviceable tanks.

Although both sides lost heavily in men and materiel, and neither gained a decisive military advantage, India had the better of the war. New Delhi achieved its basic goal of thwarting Pakistan’s attempt to seize Kashmir by force. Pakistan gained nothing from a conflict which it had instigated.

India’s strategic aims were modest - it aimed to deny Pakistani Army victory, although it ended up in possession of 720 square miles of Pakistani territory for the loss of just 220 of its own.

A brief but furious 1965 war with India began with a covert Pakistani thrust across the Kashmiri cease-fire line and ended up with the city of Lahore threatened with encirclement by Indian Army. Another UN-sponsored cease-fire left borders unchanged, but Pakistan’s vulnerability had again been exposed.

The 1965 Indo-Pak war lasted barely a month. Pakistan made gains in the Rajasthan desert but its main push against India’s Jammu-Srinagar road link was repulsed and Indian tanks advanced to within a sight of Lahore. Both sides claimed victory but India had most to celebrate.

Again India appeared, logistically at least, to be in a superior position but neither side was able to mobilize enough strength to gain a decisive victory.

“By just the end of the week, in fact, it was clear that the Pakistanis were more than holding their own.”

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Did it ever cross your mind that India changed its mind after the war? When India felt that it was under too much pressure from Pakistan in Kashmir it sought to attack Pakistani territory. They even tried to capture Lahore but were beaten back across the border.

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If I could summarise all of the above in a few words then it would say that Nobody won, it was a draw. That in itself is a defeat for India being the “regional” bully on the block.

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Wiki is a great source..LOL....... want to send an indian on a tail spin.. Just ask who crossed the international border. Then sit back and watch em squirm.

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From what I can tell, India lost more planes then could be reasonably justified.. Its no different from today.. I think half your airforce are cross eyed “behngai”… :hehe:

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So basically the only reaspn Pakistan might conceivably lose is because of lack of resources.. Atleast we know that all things being equal, Indian fighting capcity would be nulliified… India should pray Pakistan runs out of gas, because so long as Pakistan is on a war fotting, Hindu India is bent over getting ready for a royal drilling.. :hehe: