I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

The point is you're personal experience does not mean you can negate or shut down someone elses. She has very right to highlight at what she percieves as disrespectful and jugemental behaviour.. And it is even more important in this day and age to speak out. Studies have shown Muslims are being specifically targeted... But hijabis especially are the most vulnerable and easy targets, hence it is VITAL they have a voice!

How else is she suppose to raise awareness on this issue without talking about it? Keeping quite means it will continue and it will get worse... as will the resentment fostered overtime.

The fact that you or other people have had better experiences here or worse experiences elsewhere is irrelevant. It does not diminsh her personal experience one bit. And telling people to accept the mistreatment is akin to telling a black guy to accept racism as it is expected and the norm in the work place. He can choose ti ignore it and let it continue... Or be brave and take a stand!

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

With grossly judgmental, exaggerated and extremely ignorant statement like this you have proven that you are no better than Americans who are glued to Fox TV. There is absolutely no cure for people who are obsessed with every filth that right wing media espouses. You can justify it as much as you want.

For your information - have you ever heard about Operation Zarb e Azb? This one year old operation in Pakistan has done more to combat terrorism in the country that NATO forces' combined 15 years of experience in Aghanistan. So next you try to blatantly lie that "our people have done absolutely nothing" to combat terrorism, make you sure you pick up a reliable newspaper because I can assure you will not find true facts on Fox News channel.

Even if you are Fox News channel isn't painting 1.6 billion Muslims savages, they will running hate campaigns against the Russians, Chinese, Blacks, Latinos, Catholics, Socialists, Gays, Jews. Your White American patients will always have a group to hate if they are such avid viewers of right wing propaganda filth. Let's see if you would also have a the nerve to justify discrimination and hatred against innocent blacks and Latinos because Fox News runs negative reports.

History has proven that America always needed a boogyman of an internal and external enemy as a powerful unifying agent for the country. Before Muslims, it was the blacks who were the public enemy number one! But you as a supposedly adult needs to use your common sense and educate people that fringe minority doesn't not represent population that's nearly 2 billion! You cannot justify discrimination, rationalise it and make it look normal especially against people who are actually making positive contributions to the society. Maybe it's your little extremist mentality that you need to get rid of before settling personal scores with Hijabis and justifying discrimination against them.

You do know if all Muslims were terrorists, your lovely little Amereeeka would have been wiped off many eons ago. There are bloody billions of them.

I feel sorry for moderate Muslims, I really do. They are sandwiched between extremists from both ends, one groups that's hell bent on killing innocent moderate Muslims, and the other extremist group that's hell bent on painting those same moderate Muslims as killers and savages and impose guilt their perpetrators on them.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

Because of people who do not make an effort to fit in and have a hard time integrating, complain and whine incessantly and try to polarize the society we all suffer. It cant be so bad here ass she choses to make this her home and enjoy the privileges, benefits and freedoms that this society offers. From optics point of view if the society only hears complains, whining and hostilities they lend relevance to the bigots arguments that we as a general group hate the society and shouldn't be here. There are scores of other minority groups like Chinese and Filipinos and they don't seem to be invoking controversies on regular basis.

And we have a right to complain only if we are as tolerant or even more tolerant. Would her parents accept if she decided to marry a African American.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

What an intelligent argument! What has her personal life, personal choice got to do with justifying discrimination at professional work place? Why do you care who she decides to marry or what her mother says? Really, please explain me the logic. You are being extremely insensitive to the victims of racial discrimination and acting like an apologist for racists. You could just condemn wrong practice in plain simple words and move on, but no it needs to be justified because it is happening in big great America.

As with Muslims not integrating, so just because some Muslim women decide to wear Hijab, they are not integrating into the society forget about the fact they are doctors and professionals and making tangible positive contributions to the society? Whatever happening the idea of respecting personal choices? Would Muslims become better citizens if they start wearing mini skirts?

So I guess you probably not a tolerant person so I am assuming according to your logic it makes it okay for you and your children to be racially attacked and discriminated at daily basis. That's fine but I guess for normal folks who are tolerant and professional, they deserve to be treated with some respect no matter where they are and who they are.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

Did you see the video that was posted by Queer in the Daesh thread in this forum?

Makes you wonder what zarb e aab is really all about

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

Just as an adulterer cannot lecture about fidelity people who ore intolerant towards other cannot demand acceptance, it is racism when someone sees you beneath them and it is a personal choice when you see others beneath you, I have seen hundreds of people say hateful things about other races, faiths, casts, ethnicities but then demand unconditional acceptance.
We were really enjoying our inclusions and acceptance and because of controversies where this lady sued because she wants to take oath in veil, terrorist attacks n mass groping incidences my whole family faces discrimination like we never did, people like her make things harder. To start this controversy this close to terror attacks is ill timed. People with piercing, tattoo dirty nails, ungroomed, unhygienic fat etc. all get discriminated.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

Exactly correct every word. We cannot demand respect, it comes naturally from our behavior, in our business all the people in our business love dealing with Filipino and Chinese, employers love Chinese workers as they are not adversarial and confrontational, they don't anger that easily. We see a lot of work visa people from India an Philippines but not from back home. Employers want manageable people.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

While everybody is shouting hoarse about racism in non-muslim countries, what about racism in muslim countries. How do minorities get treated in Muslim countries. Why dont people who espouse equality do anything to bring attention to the untold sufferings of the minorities in Muslim countries.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

It's getting embarrassing people. Stop with the lame justifications and trying to downplay racism already. Shaking my head at the brown sahib mentality.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

Typically an average human being will only speak out when his/her rights are trampled upon (many will not even then).
To suggest that someone is not permitted to object to inequality perpetrated against him/her simply because he/she has not advocated on behalf of someone else in a situation that does not directly impact him/her is a foolish argument at best.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

re your first sentence, that is the crux of the problem. We shoukd speak up for others. Re your last sentenfe, if someone has not advocated for others in a similar situation, that someone does lose the moral high ground. And does lose the right to protest.

This thread, to the best of my knowledge, is about discrimination against folks who are in the west. And who speak up for discrimination against others. If my understanding is incorrect, I see Readme's point. Else, I disagree with his post.

Black Lives Matter.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

yes...we definitely "should" speak up for others.....but not all of us are able to.
we have to admit that not every single person has the wherewithal or the strength of personality/character that is required to speak for someone else....in short, some people are just meek. does this mean they should forfeit the right to protest if they are victimized? I don't see that as being fair.

yes, if you come across someone that has had the opportunity and the skill to speak up against injustice to others but has failed to do so yet shouts loudly when they are subjected to the same, then perhaps you would have a little less sympathy for them.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

You can certainly speak up against discrimination but if you yourself are a thousand times more discriminatory towards others than the suggestion is that you look at your behavior before pointing fingers.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

I would assume that goes without saying.....

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

i wish that was the case Muzna…the way we do things back home in pakistan, very simple simple things such as calling all christians “chooras” (choora mean janitor), always keeping the drinking glass and eating utensils of christian mai who works at your home separate, spreading and practicing hate as well as practicing social boycott against qadyanis in your colony as well as in schools and universities to the extent that now qadyanis hide their identity as much as they can, calling misers in our society yahoodi or hindu to taunt them (tum to yahoddi or hindu say bee zayada kanjoos ho) and the list goes on. and yes it is serious discrimination when your mainstream media does not even want to mention news about minorities being mistreated or killed such as this one

Christian girl killed for shrugging off advances of rich Muslim boys
Pakistan Christian Post

we do some very serious discrimiantion against minorities at state and legistaive level (only a muslim can be PM of pakistan for example) but i am not going into those details …i am just referring to what we do as part of our normal behavior in our daily lives without realizing that we are doing some serious discrimination…that does not mean, we shd not raise voice when we are discriminated but when we get discriminated, at least for a second and as a society lets do some self introspection as well because it will make us stronger and better human beings. thx

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

[quote="“phoenixdesi, post:196, topic:272598"”]

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[quote=“ALIREZA1”]

***You can certainly speak up against discrimination but if you yourself are a thousand times more discriminatory towards others than the suggestion is that you look at your behavior before pointing fingers

I had christian friends, we played and ate together. Not just me every one of the muslims, every one who had Christians in their circle.
And this is the case always.
The separate glass and eating ware I think is because of occupation. I am sure if muslims were cleaning drainage and stuff still people would keep their stuff different.
BTW this part of your post is extremely panjab oriented. In karachi as I know those cleaning staff is always panjabis, rather then some one else.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

[quote="“phoenixdesi, post:196, topic:272598"”]

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[quote=“ALIREZA1”]

***You can certainly speak up against discrimination but if you yourself are a thousand times more discriminatory towards others than the suggestion is that you look at your behavior before pointing fingers

Most of them don’t seem to change the mentality here either, we helped my wifes relatives to immigrate from Dubai and they were so upset that a hindu lady was staing with us and they refused to eat food cooked by her but when he got a job at convenience place he went full frontal to vocalize his rights and demanding prayer breaks, place to say namaaz and claiming racism. Many times it is not racism but reaction of their rudeness, inappropriate body language ad hygiene. He was a pan eater and smoker and his teeth were brown.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

Monk, every time you point out these social discrimination issues in pakistan, almost everytime few people will point out how accommodating they have been with minorities and I am sure they have been ...i also went to a christian English medium school in Pakistan and yes I have had christian friends as well and yes i had some qadyani friends too but we are talking about prevalent and widely-practiced social behaviors in our society not about exceptions.

and yes, I am from punjab, so i dont know what is going on in karachi and i dont want to make it another karachi vs punjabi thread. Anyway, if people think that in general our society does not practice some of the social behaviors that i listed above, then fine, I must be wrong.

And like i said in my earlier post, I am absolutely not providing excuses to accept any form of discrimination towards us but when we are discriminated, we should promise ourselves not to practice this back-home either. Do those small small things that you can do in Pakistan. Stop your mother or mother in law from mistreating christian workers or any kam karnay walie at home next time. Stop your father or brother or friends saying bad things about qadyanis/jews/hindus from social perspective. Do not discrminate any resume for racial or ethinic basis no matter what. Hire a qadyani/christian if he is the best guy for the job.

it seems obvious to do these things but i dont see my community doing it ... but then they want 200% equal tretment when they face any discrimination. that is all. thx

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

Just made one correction in your whole post. I think that make thing go forward.
Other thing about Christian news papers:
Young Christian are angry I think. They are more vocal too.
But in such news paper you get impression of things out of proportion.

That is majoritys' fault, but its not muslims them selves living on bed of roses.

Re: I Thought My Ivy League Degrees Would Protect Me From Bigotry. I Was Wrong.

yes they are angry and will make too much noise but the point i made was that our mainstream pakistani media totally ignored the incidence.