I feel as though my knowledge on the political, economic and cultural aspects of Pakistan are so limited. As far as education in Pakistan goes, I went to montessori for a bit, and then moved overseas. It seems as though I have missed out on so much. In school we learnt about Western civilisation and history, and very little about other parts of the world. I honestly feel as though I’ve been deprived of a great deal - there’s so much to learn about our country and the region, but you have absolutely no control over these things until you hit realisation at about the age of 15-16 when you notice that the people around you are actually different from you. Going back to Pakistan for holidays is hardly educational, can’t stand the fact that we’re subjects of western philosophy in every aspect. I can’t read or write Urdu and to me that’s highly frustrating. I hate the fact that I’m so perfectly moulded into the Western societal belief system. Sure I do retain my a lot of my values inherited from my parents, but what about my children? I have a feeling they’re going to be highly ignorant and even more estranged from Pakistan than I am.
If one want to impart Pakistani values - kids should be sent to Pakistan for studies.. I always found kids who grew up in west can never grasp the core values Pakistan offers.. In this way kids can understand eastern and western belief systems and chose where to live..
Cat Woman, the last time I went to Pakistan was when I was 4 years old. We don’t even go back for vacations. 
However, we were sent to Sunday school while growing up in England. My sister, brother and I were all taught how to speak, read and write Urdu. However, I went more to socialise and learn how to make halwa (don’t know why that was included in the lessons). Anyway, my point is that my siblings benefitted from it whereas I didn’t.
Now, I have very few Pakistani friends as I feel like an outsider when I’m around them … they tend to speak Urdu and talk about cultural things which are in a sense foreign to me.
You aren’t alone babe. 
I suggest you and I take an extended vacation to Pakistan, travel the country and actually learn to appreciate it.
Matsui
You know they say "happy families dont have a history!" One cannot generalize after reading one article about the whole educational structure of any country.. That article as we discussed earliar was about a particular section of education. Pakistan have great private schools and I know would educate in a much better way the in west.
Cat, I think I understand what you're trying to get at. I'm quite concerned about this as well because I'm out of touch with Pakistan as it is and the next generation will be more so. the last little bit is a scary thought.
You never know how things are gonna turn out but this is one of the reasons why I plan to move back to Pakistan when the time is right for me.
Degas bhai, it is okay to send kids to Pakistan for schooling if you live in the middle east or something but I don't think one can or should send kids all the way from say North America to Pakistan just for schooling.
i do know about pakistan..i know how to read and write urdu very well. i studied urdu till grade 10. but i do wonder about my kids. if they will be able to know what i know about the culture, tradition and pakistani history.
*sigh
p.s matty uncle things arent that bad :) most of the ppl hire private instructors to teach how to read Quran in pakistan.
Re: I know nothing about Pakistan.
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*Originally posted by cat-woman: *
I can't read or write Urdu and to me that's highly frustrating. I hate the fact that I'm so perfectly moulded into the Western societal belief system.
[/QUOTE]
Since when is Africa west? Unless it is Afarica, in that case sorry, me bad.
Saroor, barah-e-meharbani Urdu maiN qustuntunia (constantinople) ki spelling to bataaiN?
Mehnaz, lucky you had the opportunity to atleast learn Urdu - I guess the Pakistani community in England is quite large. Sure, we should go on a great exploration trip, but that's the thing, how does one go about back-packing in Pakistan without the aid of male relatives? lol
Degas, my parents never sent me to Pakistan to study and to this day they are totally opposed to the idea, I'm still not sure why. Would you send your kids to Pakistan?
Suroor, you're also very fortunate. I'm sure your kids will also learn, if you want them to.
The Greatful Dead, ignorant people like you should be shot. What on earth do they teach you in schools? That Africa is a vast jungle, where the humans are still considered flaura and fauna? Get a life, or atleast an education while you're at it.
Sambrialian, are you sure about moving back to Pakistan? I think we can still foster about Pakistan from wherever we are situated, but then again it is a losing battle. Unless you've been born and brought up in Pakistan or lived there for atleast part of your life, it must be so difficult to bridge the gap.
Anyway, I think Pakistanis overseas have been pretty good at retaining their culture, but it's more about how much we know about our history.
You are definitely not alone when it comes to Pakistan. I was born and raised in the US. There was only a handful of Pakistani families where I grew up. No masjid, so no Islamic school no halwa 
. I had solely American friends until I went to college. I did the usual go during summer break to Pakistan with the family. I was young, but I hated going. It was not until college when I started making an effort to learn about Pakistan and its history. I cannot speak read or write Urdu. I can only speak Punjabi b/c all my immigrant relatives came here when I was in middle school so I got allot of practice. But I made a good friend in college. he was Pakistani, but very Americanized. I was amazed at how much he knew and was proud of being from Pakistan. He is a Christian btw, not that it matters, but there are minorities that love Pakistan. But hanging out with him made me want to be more aware of my roots. Looking back, I was so out of touch with who I was. I learned allot from him good and bad, heh 
. I have mad an effort on my own to learn about Pakistan. Whatever books, internet sites, etc I try to read as much as I can in my spare time. I still know very little, but it takes time. I only still have a handful of Pakistani friends now and we don’t really do anything Pakistani, we speak English, go out but we all keep up with current events and from time to time talk about it , which is cool.
though i never lived in pakistan but we used to visit it during summer holidays and i learned a alot. i never got my education in pakistan but i did a lot of reading on pakistan and learned a lot. situation is pakistan is very grave. ppl are moving away from their own culture, traditions, and history. its just like canada, where ppl know more abt USA than their own country. i guess there is not right or wrong way to know / learn about your own country. one must do it on his/her own to know. :~)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by cat-woman: *
The Greatful Dead, ignorant people like you should be shot. What on earth do they teach you in schools? That Africa is a vast jungle, where the humans are still considered flaura and fauna? Get a life, or atleast an education while you're at it.
[/QUOTE]
In the first post you told us about your ignorance and in this one you proved it. Thank you for sticking to the main theme here.
You're still in school right? Why don't you take classes in Karachi University or Punjab University as an axchange student for some time? (I'm sure something can be worked out?). It should be a good experience and you'll learn a bit more about Pakistan that way too.
I said this before.. GS needs a language forum. I don't know much Urdu at all, but I do know some German, French and Spanish and less of others. I know there are lots of people here that speak all kinds of languages. If someone knows a lot of one language but not much of another, why can't they find someone to help?
GS has the urdu text tool (is that complete yet?) and audio/voice upload capabilities and a friendly environment. This is perfect for learning a language! We need a language forum for us strangers to get more in touch with custom, not only at home but the world around us!
Punjab da sher, it always helps to have Pakistani friends, but to tell you the truth I've never got along with Pakistanis, until I came to gupshup and discovered that they aren't half bad. It must've been great to have a Pakistani best friend in school!
Niqabi, like I said earlier, my parents are totally opposed to the idea of me studying in Pakistan. I had put it past them earlier and they were totally baffled, my dad said that he would send me but that I'd be crying to come back after 3 months. I don't think he was serious about sending me, so when your parents are holding you back from studying there, there isn't much you can do really. I've almost finished my studies anyway. :-)
Spoon, but isn't the Urdu language tool in Urdu? don't you have to be able to read/write urdu in order to use it? I haven't tried it yet.
It's so unfair because our parents were taugh Farsi in school as well as Urdu. Atleast I have a very good Islamic base because we were sent to Madressah from the beginning and reading Arabic isn't a problem.
cat-woman: Why dont you go for a vacation? You can get many good books on urdu, soak up on the culture, meet some relatives etc.
I think I was in the same situation as you are. It's really tough to know about distant Pakistan when your growing up in a largely white community. I had to learn how to read and write urdu from books that my parents ordered from India. I loved (and still love) Pakistani music so I was learning how to speak urdu. My family switches between urdu and punjabi at home so I got a chance to learn them both.
I am a current events buff...so I followed all the news from Pakistan as well as the world. Frequent trips helped. Then in college I took a deeper interest into sociology and history, spent time researching South Asia History. All in all it took a lot of effort on my part.
One of the most important things to remember to not give up as your going along. Make the most out of your trip, check out the library for a good book on the Pakistan movement. Read Iqbals poetry...whatever you like and feel comfortable doing.
catty, I can soooo well understand what you mean. Basically I am in the same situation.
I can only read Urdu very slowly and with a lot of effort. Writing? Forget it.
And I'm also worried, how much contact with Pakistan my kids will have and to what extent they will identify themselves with it.
Rajput fury I admire your efforts, it’s difficult to maintain such an interest while living overseas. :k: I can converse in Urdu, but only because I forced myself to after the age of 14/15. My parents never forced us to speak in Urdu, so I blame them for my poor reading/writing skills! When I go to Pakistan its for a very brief period, but I guess the next time I can make more of an effort to get books and stuff.
Umer, I don’t think you should worry, you have such a good command of Urdu/Punjabi and you even worked in Lahore for a bit. I think it’s upto us to instill the right values/knowledge in our children. But then again, it’s going to be difficult.