Re: I just would like to know....
u ahve been in UK too. i mean you take a narrow mided, prejudiced, bull**** fed lout from some village and move him to UK, he stays the same, his kids struggle between different set of expectations and identities, in many cases the racism of other locals add to the mix, and thats where in search of an identity and a peer group they get picked up by these radicals.
more later..
*1000% Agreed .........:D *
Re: I just would like to know....
The fact remains there is a problem, that needs to be tackled. It needs to be tackled by our community and it needs to be tackled by the UK government. deport hate moger visiting 'imams', make some of the crap like such brainwashing illegal, ban some groups, keep an eye on others, provide opportunities, make racism a crime that is more strictly checked against...
*Dont worry..........I'm a promoter of RACE EQUALITY.....:) *
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According to the interviews of friends and neighbours of some of those detained, it seemed like all of the Pakistanis were just normal Muslims. They didn't have any secret jihadi session every week nor were they total outsiders in the community. There was no fertilizer or Ak47's found at their homes. I mean come on, people grew up with the so called bombers and even they didn't have a clue.
Lets hope the authorities release some more evidence soon, so we all can get a better picture of what was going on.
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Apart from whatever the truth maybe, one can't negate the point that neoconservatives and warmongers will use this as ammunition to salvage their doomed campaigns in Iraq, Afghanistan or to pursue their depraved fantasies of re-drawing Middle East. One outcome is ascertained; the magnanimous of fear factor will be stretched to greater extents in order to justify and further the atrocities. When all is going woefully wrong in their campaigns, a single shock of perplexed and puzzled terror plot can set things straight, and can remind people why there's a need to pursue those 'noble' and 'democratic ideological' virtues for the sake of 'global peace'. Their accomplishment only and only lies in the crushing defeat of 'fascist Islam' in all its forms.
I would certainly question the shrewd timing of the event. When Stephen Harper needed a boost to push the Afghan force extension bill through the parliament, the Canadian plot was unearthed. As much as exaggerated lies and deception have been used at every single juncture to rally public opinion, the events such as these have certainly delivered a contrived punch, when it has been 'needed' the most....
Re: I just would like to know…
i dont know wht u r talking abt??.. … u dont know how things work in pakistan,how jehadi works,u dont know a single crap abt pakistan and its baki howi army but yes u believe wht these assholes americans say…
again y dont u people provide a single proof abt 9/11???
y our agencies were not able to captured nishtar park criminals??? and if there r jehadis in pak who r involved in planning such high level attacks,then i think america would have been the part of history…
now every paki who has a bee size mind, knows wht such fake things have value…all such fake terror plans r used to gibe bad name to muslim…give new energy to war on terror…and thts all..all such things r TOTAL BS…
and u have been talking abt ISI and army..my jani,these organisations r the most corrupt party of pakistan and infact americans rightly said abt pakis tht they can sell their mothers for dollars and our “brave” army is no exception…just one call from pentagon would be enough to create such fake terror plots…our army and ISI generals can make millions from creating such or be part of such fake plots
Americans r lucky…wht they have to do is to give some dollars to pakis and create all the assholic stories..
come out of ur narrow minded computer games life and stop watching foxnews…as i said many of u americans pakis dont know a single crap abt pak..
really americans has to face the easiest enemy on the planet as there r plenty of bikao nasal mir jafer ki aulad muslims…
Re: I just would like to know....
Blaming mullahs for the actions of reactionary people is simplistic. There is a sense of (perceived or not) injustice among these people and they are reacting to it. They are sensitive to these injustices because they also have experienced some -- racism, lack of opportunities, being born in a wrong family, etc.
Another factor that is contributing to these reactions are certain countries`s proximity to violent conflicts and wars. Naturally, those conflicts have added their two bits to the local\folk lore filling their imaginations with heriocs and visions of glory. Where there is conflict, there is munition and they put two and two together...
People can scream, yell and remove the mullahs from their pulpit but as long as above mentioned factors are in place, youll have reactionary peoplereacting` in the name of justice, etc.
Why Pakistan or Pakistanis? Look at the region and its history: One violent conflict after another... In just last two decades, Pakistan has seen a lot of turmoil within\out its borders -- they hear about it, read about it, see remnants of it crossing the border. Its natural that a small, susceptible or reactionary, percent of the populace wants to be a part of thesolution`.
Re: I just would like to know....
..........and all mullahs are not like that .........I know a mullah of pakistani origin her daughter is primary teacher in GOVT. school and she doesnt wear headscarf while teaching........moreover, he arranged her marriage to a white british convert. He is the mullah of the biggest mosque of UK, very renowned indeed......So that mullah doesnt believe in racial hatred. I pay tribute to his mullahism, i wish all mullahs would be like him........:)
Re: I just would like to know....
London—A pizza delivery guy, a security guard, a university student, an odd-jobs construction worker and a part-time electronics salesman are among the young British men suspected of plotting to blow up passenger jets headed to the United States.
The profile emerging of the alleged homegrown terrorists arrested by police in raids late Wednesday night and Thursday morning is of ordinary working-class people, most with jobs and close family ties.
Neighbours in the three communities where a total of 22 men and two women were taken into custody talk about normal, soccer-loving young men, most the sons of Pakistani immigrants who grew up eating fish and chips and watching British sitcoms in typical suburban townhouses.
Meanwhile, as investigators on three continents worked to flesh out details of the plot, Pakistani officials reported they had arrested as many as 17 more suspected conspirators in recent days. One of those, a British national named Rashid Rauf, is believed to have been the operational planner and to have connections with Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, Pakistani and U.S. officials told Associated Press.
At least three of those arrested in Britain are converts to Islam, one just within the last six or seven months, and another one is a security guard at Heathrow airport, the scene of passenger chaos on Thursday as hundreds of flights were cancelled as authorities came to grips with drastic new security measures aimed at keeping planes safe in the air.
No details have been released about the two women arrested, one of whom is reported to be pregnant while the other is the mother of an infant. Both are believed to be the wives of two of the accused men. Those arrested range in age from 17 to 35.
One of the arrested men, Waheed Zaman, 23, is a well-known Muslim representative on the student council at London's Metropolitan University, where he studies biochemistry.
His sister, who was with him in the family's east London house when police arrived to arrest her brother, told Britain's Sun newspaper he is a mainstream Muslim who is a proud Briton.
"He loves fish and chips and Liverpool football club," she said, adding that he is a "great believer in the importance of integration between our community and the Western world."
But for the better part of a year, police here have been shadowing the suspects as they went about their seemingly normal "fish and chip" lives, tracking their cellphone conversations, email and Internet access, bank accounts and even using GPS tracking devices on at least 12 cars belonging to suspects.
Details of how police managed to break up an alleged suicidal plan to detonate disguised liquid explosives aboard as many as 10 planes bound from Britain to the U.S. continued to emerge yesterday — although British authorities remain reluctant to disclose too much information, sensitive to the justice system still to be navigated once the terror suspects are formally charged.
Media reports in Britain suggested the investigation into the bomb plot goes back almost a year after a tip-off from an informant in east London's Muslim community that led police to begin monitoring Internet traffic among several men. At least three of those men were already on the police radar, suspected of extremist tendencies.
What has yet to emerge is how the various suspects might be connected to one another. While more than half of those arrested come from the same east London suburb, there is no obvious connection between them and the group of four arrested in the north London suburb of High Wycombe or the two arrested in Birmingham.
Yesterday, police seized hard drives from Internet cafes in Reading and east London as they continued to gather vast amounts of evidence. The record of financial transactions, along with phone and computer records, could help investigators trace more people involved.
In recent months, police here have confirmed they believe there are as many as 1,000 Muslims living in Britain who sympathize with suicide bombings against western targets and who could be persuaded to join jihadist groups. In December, the probe intensified as Britain's domestic spy agency MI5 called in the anti-terrorist branch of Scotland Yard to help.
The Guardian newspaper reported police decided to end their surveillance operation and launch the raids Wednesday night after a "go" message was forwarded to one of the alleged terrorists by an accomplice in Pakistan. The coded message, which the Guardian said was deciphered by the spy agency, followed the transfer of large amounts of money to the suspects — money investigators believe was to be used to buy airline tickets for would-be bombers.
Other media reports suggest police intercepted plans for a "dry run" to be carried out yesterday whereby the bombers would have carried the ingredients for liquid bombs through airport security to test whether their false-bottomed energy drink and pop bottles raised suspicion. The Times newspaper said police felt they could not risk letting the bombers take another step closer to endangering planes and launched their simultaneous raids.
London's Evening Standard reported the plotters apparently chose next Wednesday as a target date, since they had tickets for a United Airlines flight that day. There were signs preparations stepped up recently. One of the houses raided by British police this week had been bought last month by two men in an all-cash deal, in a neighbourhood of $300,000 houses, neighbours said.
Early yesterday, the Bank of England website posted the names of 19 of the men in custody and stated their assets had been frozen by order of the government. The move came as the police followed the routine practice of not formally naming the suspects until they are officially charged. One of the 24 detainees was freed later yesterday, but Scotland Yard didn't identify that person.
Pakistani officials, meanwhile, said British information led to the first arrests in Pakistan about a week ago, of two British nationals, including Rauf, called a "key person" by the Pakistani foreign ministry.
Elsewhere, police in Italy raided Internet cafes, money-transfer offices and long-distance phone call centres catering to Muslims and arrested 40 people in a crackdown linked to Britain's announcement it had foiled the plot, authorities said.
On the streets of the east London neighbourhood of Walthamstow yesterday, young Muslim men gathered to denounce the arrests and voice skepticism that their neighbours might be capable of what police describe as "mass murder on an unimaginable scale."
"They've got the wrong guys. I know they have," said Amir Gull, who said he works nearby. "I know these people and I know that they are peaceful people. They would not do this."
Others rallied around to point out that just two months ago, police raided a nearby house and arrested two brothers as terrorist suspects, accidentally shooting one of them in the shoulder. A week later, both were released without charge and police confirmed they acted on false intelligence.
Almost all of the latest British suspects still lived with their immigrant parents in working-class communities and held various part- or full-time jobs while attending prayers at mosque regularly. Only one was attending university and almost all wore traditional Islamic dress.
Amin Asmin Tariq, 23, was the exception. The Heathrow Airport security guard dressed in western-style clothing and was not considered by friends or neighbours to be religious. He is married with a young child. Airport authorities said Tariq was not assigned to passenger screening.
Muslim convert Oliver Savant, 26, was recently married to a Muslim woman and runs a business with his brother, who told the Sun newspaper yesterday that Savant, who now goes by the first name Ibrahim, is a loyal Briton. It was believed Savant's pregnant wife is among the suspects being held by police.
In the upscale London suburb of High Wycombe, police evacuated homes and businesses around one raided business, where a string of garages in the back were cordoned off, leading to suspicion the property was being used as the bomb factory.
Police also arrested recent convert Don Stewart-Whyte, 21, as he arrived home with is wife. Stewart-Whyte, who changed his name to Abdul Waheed after his conversion early this year, is the half-brother of a former supermodel. His mother is a local high school teacher and his late father was a Conservative party worker.
At Britain's airports yesterday, flights were getting back to normal after a long day of confusion on Thursday that saw hundreds of flights cancelled. A spokesperson for BAA, which operates several major airports including London's Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, said about 70 per cent of domestic and short-haul flights would be taking off, but warned of continued delays.
source: www.thestar.com
I can't believe these people would do such an evil thing. Why would they plot to do something so crazy?
Re: I just would like to know....
.............just remind me that London bombers were all very respected and active in the community, and one was teaching assistant at local Govt. school......How come they turned to killers?
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Just sad.
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**…its really shocking:teary2: 
**
Re: I just would like to know....
not everybody can take the injustices around the world so they decide to do something...they obviously r misguided but at least they r doing something unlike us who do nothing.
Re: I just would like to know....
afridi, that is the wrong attitude to have. Doing nothing is better if what you do is sinful.
Re: I just would like to know....
Its quite possible they have some correct suspects and some wrong ones. There will be procedures followed, naturally, to make sure they've got the right suspects. I'm surprised about the women, though.
As for the OP's original questions, to add to many valid reasons posted, I would say part of the problem is
Not enough knowledge about Islam, and religious leaders (imams, etc) who are giving a negatively skewed interpretation of Jihad and misleading people.
Moderate muslims not intervening in their community masjids to make sure the imams are not haywire, and that extremist activity is not being propogated.
Muslims giving false tip-offs to authorities to incriminate someone they have a personal grudge against. More common than we would think, but its not surprising, since muslims simply do not know how to treat each other with respect.
Re: I just would like to know…
Because MI5, MI6 and CIA finds it easy to recruit Pakistanis as patsies for their terror operation. Pakistanis are found in abundance in UK and North America.
Re: I just would like to know…
That’s not true. It’s not simply teen rebellion. It’s a lot more organized and fanatical than simple parallel belief in Communism. Some snipets (whole blog can be found here http://eteraz.wordpress.com/2006/08/10/muslim-muslims-on-british-muslims/ ) –
Re: I just would like to know....
So far no solid evidence has been found, linking any pakistani to the alleged terror plot. No proof has been found on anything. Its a hoax and its managed to fool ppl once again
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Roman good post, it aligns well with what I have been saying for years on this site about the isues and dangers presented by groups like Hizb Ul tahrir, Mohajiroun, ghuraba and other such outfits.
Re: I just would like to know…
which in no way shape or form takes anything away from the fact that certain groups are breeding fanaticism in the youth,a nd the sooner we address it, the better. and by we I dont just mean muslim communty, but also the relevent law enforcement authorities and society at large.
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excellent read Roman, thanks for posting it.