Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
Actually passport by birth. Where i supported killing of Pakistani's? in your Utopian world only.
I am merely using your own logic against you. This is how you respond to CP and others who are more conservative than you. Logical fallacies and strawmans.
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
Educate me, oh wise one.
Does the blockade mean that the government considers the loss of life of Pakistani soldiers as more important than the loss of life of Pakistani civilians? There have been examples of civilians killed in cross-fire or as a result of NATO-led incursions and I'm not aware of any action other than an official statement by the Pakistani government denouncing the deaths of civilians. Didn't the death of those civilians merit protests or blockades by the Pakistani government?
I find it amazing that people are questioning the actions of the government and military. Drone attacks have approval. Attacking another military by international law and US law is a declaration of war and the Pakistan is legally entitled to take whatever course of action it wishes to do so.
And yet not a single condemnation from our ABCD members.
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
SAM's deployed in tribal areas say's member of national assembly Munir Orakzai.
source:samaa tv
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
I find it amazing that people are questioning the actions of the government and military. Drone attacks have approval. Attacking another military by international law and US law is a declaration of war and the Pakistan is legally entitled to take whatever course of action it wishes to do so.
And yet not a single condemnation from our ABCD members.
Going back to the original post - the post implies questions about whether NATO and Pakistan remain allies or adversaries following the actions of the NATO army. Responding DIRECTLY to that comment, I question why or whether the death of military officers would strain the NATO-Pakistani relationship when previous events involving the loss of civilian life didn't – this to me smacks of hypocrisy of the Pakistani government. I’m not ignoring your comment about an attack on another military being an act of war – but where the first instance of loss of life in the form of civilian deaths can be rationalized as collateral damage, why can’t the strike on a Pakistani military post be considered the same, especially since the NATO-led forces have excuses to explain away the military strike?
If what you want is for us to condemn the loss of life of Pakistani soldiers. Well, here you go, speaking solely for myself (and I am neither American, nor confused):
I condemn the malicious and intentional acts of either military force or terrorist faction that renders the loss of dignity and/or life of another human being. I condemn the self-serving leaders of Pakistan who serve their personal agendas as opposed to the people of Pakistan and and who refuse to be accountabile to the people of Pakistan. I condemn foreign governments that use the guise of humanitarianism and anti-terrorism to mask false wars.
But, I regret the necessity of armed conflict to rout terrorist factions that justify their acts of terror against innocents under the name of Islam. And I regret the loss of Pakistani lives as a result of ill-thought or ill-executed military strategies, be the deaths, civilian or military.
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
Wow what a retarded statement. Since when is life like Bush describes it? And sadly no condemnation concerning the death of Pakistani soldiers. Typical bull****.
You need to go drink some water before posting. Some of your sentences don't even make sense.
About condemnation, read the last line in my above post.
What I was saying, and which you completely ignored, is that who do you consider your friends?
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
Khoji: http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2010/07/144858.htm
That is from Secretary Clinton’s statement. Second last Paragraph. There are many more such claims. Oh yes. That link is from the State Department website. But I guess Clinton is an idiot according to your logic. :rolleyes:
Now Sehrysh. Pakistan has made a deal with the devil. They agreed to allow drone attacks in Pakistan - Musharraf did as well as allow the usage of a few military bases. Is it hypocritical? Yup. Should they stop the drone attacks? Yes. Should the Pakistan government do more to protect its civilians? Yup. However collateral damage is a term the US and Canadian governments use very actively in war. Both troops have killed countless civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. There are only three countries that allow their troops to fire for any cause whatsoever. The US, Canada and the UK. The rest of the troops can only return fire in the case that they are engaged in combat.
While the condemnation is pretty, it misses the point. Reads kinda like a US State Department statement. A simple sentence saying “I condemn the US for killing Pakistani soldiers” would have sufficed. But then again in your 5 line condemnation you don’t mention that anyway instead you attack Pakistan.
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
What’s your problem CM? Stop complaining. American troops are humans and to err is human. You see, they say it is ‘understandable’. What else do you want from them? It was just a ‘some Pakistani troops’ and still they are so understanding.
Stop complaining and continue bombing.
Key senator lashes out at Pakistan government
*
Washington (CNN) – A top senator slammed Pakistan’s government Friday, urging more action against terrorists and less complaining about American drone strikes…
…Levin said some Pakistan criticism is understandable.
“They object when we make mistakes,” Levin said. “I mean we hit some Pakistani troops by mistake the other day and there is some strong blowback on that,” he said. “This is understandable.”…*
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
I read that along with the Defense Department defending the actions by the US military. Pathetic.
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
[/QUOTE]
What the …? I didn’t expect this as an argument. Must I explain this too?
While everyone looks after only its own interest, no country says clearly that they cooperate because of their interests and do not consider others friends.
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
What's your problem CM? Stop complaining. American troops are humans and to err is human.
Kakay, the point is that no one is anyone's "friend". That's where CM is completely wrong. People look after their interests alone.
If CM looks at things with glasses of "friend/enemy", and if Americans are not "friends" then who is friend? Taliban?
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
^ How about 'ally' if not 'friend'?
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
It was a friendly fire incident. And Pakistani Paramilitary don't wear proper uniform. they wear shalwar kameez...so its very hard for NATO to distinguish between the two....
I think this was an isolated incident
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
^ How about 'ally' if not 'friend'?
Good that you understood.
Ally in the fight against Talibanic kharijis. Yes. But does not necessary mean ally in everything.
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
Going back to the original post - the post implies questions about whether NATO and Pakistan remain allies or adversaries following the actions of the NATO army. Responding DIRECTLY to that comment, I question why or whether the death of military officers would strain the NATO-Pakistani relationship when previous events involving the loss of civilian life didn't – this to me smacks of hypocrisy of the Pakistani government. I’m not ignoring your comment about an attack on another military being an act of war – but where the first instance of loss of life in the form of civilian deaths can be rationalized as collateral damage, why can’t the strike on a Pakistani military post be considered the same, especially since the NATO-led forces have excuses to explain away the military strike?
If what you want is for us to condemn the loss of life of Pakistani soldiers. Well, here you go, speaking solely for myself (and I am neither American, nor confused):
I condemn the malicious and intentional acts of either military force or terrorist faction that renders the loss of dignity and/or life of another human being. I condemn the self-serving leaders of Pakistan who serve their personal agendas as opposed to the people of Pakistan and and who refuse to be accountabile to the people of Pakistan. I condemn foreign governments that use the guise of humanitarianism and anti-terrorism to mask false wars.
But, I regret the necessity of armed conflict to rout terrorist factions that justify their acts of terror against innocents under the name of Islam. And I regret the loss of Pakistani lives as a result of ill-thought or ill-executed military strategies, be the deaths, civilian or military.
well said :-)
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
Khoji I understand the point you are attempting to make. There are no permanent friends, only permanent interests and Pakistan should be bend over and take it because the US can do whatever it wishes. Thankfully someone of us actually value Pakistan and will not act like a 2 dollar whore regardless what our government does.
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
and Pakistan should be bend over and take it because the US can do whatever it wishes.
That's just your misunderstanding too. Pakistan is NOT "bending over". The NATO supplies have been cut off, and they are not opening in near future. There is a joint investigation going on to look for reasons why it happened.
But by "bending over" you mean that Pakistan should stop cooperating with America in the fight against Taliban kharijis, then in this case you will be playing in the hands of those munafiqeen.
America and Pakistan are on the same side in this fight. This war is Pakistan's own war. Pakistan helping America in this war is not "bending over". I wish likes of Imran Khan and Shahbaz Sharif could understand this point.
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
I am sorry how are we playing in the hands of the munafigeen when we support the Haqqani Network with everything?
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
We are currently not playing in the hands of Taliban munafiqeen, but we will be if we stop supporting the fight against Taliban khariji munafiqeen.
Imran Taliban and his likes would like us to stop helping America in this fight against Taliban. It's because they refuse to accept this fight as Pakistan's own. That's what playing in the hands of Taliban is.
But it is duplicity of Pakistan to continue to tolerate Haqqani network. Only because they don't attack Pakistan directly. This is the same mistake Pak made with Taliban. Similarly Haqqani group of munafiqeen will also cost us dearly if we don't get rid of them as well.
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
just in
nato is begging Pakistan for the opening of supply line (
)
Re: I guess this proves they really are our friends
We are currently not playing in the hands of Taliban munafiqeen, but we will be if we stop supporting the fight against Taliban khariji munafiqeen. Imran Taliban and his likes would like us to stop helping America in this fight against Taliban. It's because they refuse to accept this fight as Pakistan's own. That's what playing in the hands of Taliban is.
But it is duplicity of Pakistan to continue to tolerate Haqqani network. Only because they don't attack Pakistan directly. This is the same mistake Pak made with Taliban. Similarly Haqqani group of munafiqeen will also cost us dearly if we don't get rid of them as well.
Wow talk about being ignorant. Pakistan does not tolerate the Haqqani network. We support them with everything. We also support HI and Quetta Shura. They get active support from Pakistan. You should really read up on Pakistan's role with the Taliban in Afghanistan. We have Taliban we work with and support with more than just moral support.