If Admin thinks it should be removed.. I have no qualms.. but just wanted some clarification..
Quoted by shair30 in post
‘Hazrat Ali Dead? I dont think so’
regarding the silly questions asked by rare and carbon, #1) hazrat Ali got martyred by Ibne muljim, its a known fact mentioned in all ahadith book (both sunni and shia). Nobody needs to prove it, its an open fact of history.
#2) Everybody knows that Umar, Abu Bakr, Usman and others were not martyred. Again nobody needs to prove it.
#3)I have given proofs on this issue in another thread rare and carbon, you can check it there.
#4)We do ask for help from Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) because he our dear Prophet and habib of Allah. Ya rasool Allah madad!
got it
How can Ali’s martyrdom by in the hadith.. Did the Prophet forsee it and said it will happen that way.. I think not. God says in Quran that only He is aware of the Future (reference given earlier in that post, but not by me)
Hazrat Umar was martyred while offering prayers with a javelin (‘neza’)
Hazrat was martyred while reading Quran .. the quran. This Quran is on display somewhere (i think in Turkey).
From what I know people who are killed while doing deeds in the way of Allah are Martyrs - and praying and reading Quran so fall in that category.
Allah has commanded us not to ask for things from anyone but Him, so how can I ask for it from Muhammad (peace be upon him)(even though he may be the dearest thing to me). Doing so would be shirk and that is the way to hell..
[This message has been edited by blackzero (edited October 28, 2000).]
::: shair30:“ …hazrat Ali got martyred by Ibne muljim, its a known fact mentioned in ‘all ahadith book’ (both sunni and shia). Nobody needs to prove it, its an open fact of history… "
::: Blackzero:“ …How can Ali’s martyrdom by in the hadith.. Did the Prophet forsee it and said it will happen that way.. I think not. God says in Quran that only He is aware of the Future (reference given earlier in that post, but not by me)… ”
funny eh!
Ok here’s the answer in his own words.
::: Desert fox:“ …You know Watcher ‘we have our own Hadith’ and they are from the family of the prophet(ahle-bayt)it is not that we do not belive in Hadith, ‘we have our own’ (we don’t belive in the Shih bukhari, muslim, tirmizi ect.)… "
'How do Ahadith - even Shia ones - say that Ali was martyred'
Ahadith are the words or deeds of the prophet.. and martyrdom of Ali cannot be in Ahadith.. because it had not happened then.
All I wanted to say is, the misuse of terminology leads to further misunderstanding. Therefore the people posting on this forum should use the correct terminology.
What would have been appropriate would be that shia history books say Ali (pbuh) was martyred.. not shia hadith books.
Though its absolutely incorrect and inappropriate to say Holy Prophet predicted the shahadat of Hadhrat Ali(ra). But since they claim they have their own Hadith books, (most likely written by themselves) it will not be out of place to see such traditions.
Islam is dying or perhaps it is at its verge of its death. No one is bothering towards its ill and grave condition; all are busy lurking on their inherited philosophies; way far from spirituality.
So my friend, everything is possible when one is blind and has no courage to scrutinize the beliefs.